Contract talks

[Southwestern]

I'm wondering why you don't work for FedEx then. I think just based on this quote I'll be applying there tomorrow.

Broaden your horizons. Go to forums like Airline Pilot Central and read the comments posted by airline pilots of big, legacy carriers in 1999 & 2000 that blatantly stated they'd take every dollar possible during coming negotiations while brushing aside management's warning of looming low-labor cost competition. By the mid-2000s, the low-cost competition had surpassed the big, legacy carriers in size. All went bankrupt, dumped contracts & pensions, cut over 100K jobs, outsourced as much work as possible, etc. Had the pilots played a fair game earlier, they may have avoided the ultimate mess, kept their peers employed and maintained higher wages (and pensions!).

 

[Re-Raise]

I am who I say I am. I enjoy sharing my thoughts & experiences here and reading others; you could see that from reading my many posts.

If you're incapable of having thoughtful interactions with others, as opposed to launching personal attacks on those who don't agree with your view points, then you need to go away. You certainly don't need to agree with me, but you don't need to display your ignorance.

The least you could do is "emphasize " with my ignorance.

 

[cheryl]

A friendly reminder:

It is fine to disagree with a different viewpoint, but please limit this to challenging the idea and not make your comments a personal challenge or make derogatory personal comments about individuals or their choices or circumstances, which disparage their ideas, opinions, their occupation or their personal situation. These examples are not exhaustive. Insulting or disparaging another member is a personal attack regardless of the manner in which it is done. These offensive comments are contrary to the spirit of legitimate, reasoned debate and damaging to the purpose of our community.

Discussion can be animated, which is fine, but we do not welcome personal attacks, on- or off-board. Derogatory, insulting, or belittling statements, directed at other members as well as direct or indirect personal attacks are not permitted on our forum.

 

[Re-Raise]

My view on the upcoming contract is that we all deserve a raise that is fair and the company can certainly afford it. Southwestern believes otherwise.

I guess we can agree to disagree, and since neither of us will be participating in the negotiations we can just see what happens and cast our votes. That is if we are both who we say we are.

 

[ftballer67]

If you've been working part-time for 8 years, you're already making more than most customers are willing to pay for that level of work. It's the customers who pay us. If you're in a center where a driver job is in the distant future, you may want to find a full-time job. Surely you can acquire marketable skills in your off hours.

You have no point, seriously. Where is the survey at showing what customers are willing to pay for certain "levels of work."

If you asked most customers they would probably say all the hourlies at every level are over compensated, not just the part timers, in fact I would guess part timers would be near the bottom of the list in who they would consider overpaid.

 

[Re-Raise]

Interesting. I stopped at home here for lunch and checked to see if my new buddy Southwestern would be logged in to Browncafe in the middle of the afternoon. He is.

Must be nice after 2 years driving to get a route that allows you to stop at home.

 

[kingOFchester]

drivers in that position because they went out and purchased a $600,000 lakefront house in their 50s, plus a $100,000 boat, $60,000 BMW, etc.

We make good money, But there is no way that we make enough to buy a 600k house, 100k boat and 60k car along with the expenses associated with these purchases.

 

[Re-Raise]

Darn no response yet from "driver" Southwestern. My money was split between him claiming to be on vacation or going the BBAG route and claiming he was logged in all day from his i-phone while delivering.

BBAG turned out to be lying about being a driver.

It isn't that I have a problem with you personally Southwestern, I still believe you are an intelligent poster. The things you say about the driver position just lead me to believe you are not a full-time driver.

To say that we make over 30 an hour to just drive, indicates to me that you don't do the job. Driving is only a small part of what I do in a day for UPS.

 

[menotyou]

If the problem is quoting out of context I guess you would be right.

In you haste to mock me, you rushed past logic. Syllogism isn't your forte', apparently.

 

[yeldarb]

Darn no response yet from "driver" Southwestern. My money was split between him claiming to be on vacation or going the BBAG route and claiming he was logged in all day from his i-phone while delivering.

BBAG turned out to be lying about being a driver.

It isn't that I have a problem with you personally Southwestern, I still believe you are an intelligent poster. The things you say about the driver position just lead me to believe you are not a full-time driver.

To say that we make over 30 an hour to just drive, indicates to me that you don't do the job. Driving is only a small part of what I do in a day for UPS.

We have drivers that post on Facebook throughout the day....Must be nice.

 

[Southwestern]

The reason I haven't responded to you, Re-Raise, is because I took advantage of this site's convenient "ignore" feature after you launched personal attacks. I'm only aware of what you wrote as quoted in the posting above me, and while I don't have to respond, I will as I ponder why you'd think I'd be working: I'm dead-last in seniority (within my center; three centers under one roof), it's mid-winter, volume's down & few vacations are scheduled.

Like every job, this one has additional intangible aspects but you're living in a fantasy world if you believe you entail much more than driving and delivering (and picking-up) packages. You know it's manual-labor. You know you could be driving in all weather. You know you could be delivering to any residence, including ones with long walks, ones with many stairs and ones with ferocious dogs. You know you could spend 15-minutes looking for a single package. You know that doing this will exploit the aches & pains that come with age. But that comes with the job, it doesn't change what the job is. There's a reason many young drivers, in their early 20s and with minimal training, blow the numbers out.

If this were truly a skilled job, then you'd be able to negotiate your wage should you move on from UPS. But you can't! Your experience with UPS may place you near the top of a wish list, or give you a minor premium (a dollar or so), but ultimately you'd be lucky to earn half (and probably closer to one-third) of your current wage. And don't expect much for benefits, if at all...

Yes, many of us work in hostile environments but that's not unique to UPS. Nor do drivers spend much time in the center, anyway. Do you know why many managers treat their subordinates like garbage? Because they know they can. They know that drivers are fearful of losing their jobs (because they'll never earn an equivalent compensation) and they ride this fear to do whatever they darn well please without fear of grievances, etc.

 

[upsgrunt]

It's easy to be bitter and negative when you are at the bottom of the pile. You can downgrade the job all you want, but you still have to take your lumps when you are in your position- just like everyone else did who is above you. I doubt that UPS is holding you hostage and I'm sure they will stay in business without you.

 

[Re-Raise]

Yes, I have been FT driving for almost two years, although I have many years of seasonal & air experience. I personally wouldn't have went FT if not for the compensation, but I possess a BA and am actively seeking employment elsewhere.

Wow , I just can't get a handle on what your point is. You degrade the job, and say how overpaid we are, yet you say you have worked part-time for over 10 years and are now a driver.

Why would you wait until you get the easy overpaid position, and then decide to look for a different job? What kept you here for 10 years?

I have only a handful of years left until I can retire. I would think any increase in compensation over the next contract will have a much greater effect on you.

That is if anything you say is true. You sound a little like UPSSalesguy when you talk about the driver position.. not a 10 year preloader.

 

[Re-Raise]

Nor do drivers spend much time in the center, anyway.

You meant to say .. Nor do 'we' spend much time in the center , anyway.

Because you are a driver and all , right?

 

[Re-Raise]

I am near the bottom of the seniority list.

Inspector Re-Raise would like to know if you are dead last in seniority or near the bottom. Your new lies don't match your old lies.

 

[uber]

Inspector Re-Raise would like to know if you are dead last in seniority or near the bottom. Your new lies don't match your old lies.

How dare someone have differing opinion on the difficulties of the job than you! They must be a liar!

 

[Re-Raise]

How dare someone have differing opinion on the difficulties of the job than you! They must be a liar!

Some people on here are liars. BBAG stuck to his lies for a long time. Why would he want to leave his overpaid ,easy job after waiting 10 years to get it?

Why would someone argue the pay for the job they just got is too high?

 

[uber]

Some people on here are liars. BBAG stuck to his lies for a long time. Why would he want to leave his overpaid ,easy job after waiting 10 years to get it?

Why would someone argue the pay for the job they just got is too high?

Because they sacrificed a decade of their life lugging boxes around for peanuts?

 

[Re-Raise]

Because they sacrificed a decade of their life lugging boxes around for peanuts?

So he wants to spend the next 25 years making peanuts also? I am sorry to break it to you but you lug a few boxes as a driver too.

It is probably unlikely that the contract will have a retroactive pay clause in it to compensate him for his earlier years as a part-timer.

 

[Southwestern]

It's easy to be bitter and negative when you are at the bottom of the pile. You can downgrade the job all you want, but you still have to take your lumps when you are in your position- just like everyone else did who is above you. I doubt that UPS is holding you hostage and I'm sure they will stay in business without you.

It's easy to respond with faux cheap shots when you're unable to respond to an argument.

I'm most certainly not bitter about my job -- quite the opposite is true, actually.

The underlining fact is that UPS drivers earn total compensation packages in excess of what many college graduates possessing four-year degrees do, despite the fact that the job entails limited skill and comparable jobs pay much, much less (and exemplified by the number of young, inexperienced drivers who can blow the numbers out after just days of minimal training). We're most certainly not underpaid, and demanding huge future wage hikes (as well as expecting the company to pay for the annual increase in health care) will only lead to disaster in the future (as long as comparable companies like FedEx, OnTrac, etc. remain at a labor advantage). IMO, a fair contract would be one to preserves the current top pay & benefits (providing raises near inflation), not one that breaks the bank.