Drop Out of Your 401k

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

VT, I was 8 years military before going to UPS. I can recall many times running out of money before I ran out of month.

 

[vantexan]

VT, I was 8 years military before going to UPS. I can recall many times running out of money before I ran out of month.

And now that times are good you don't have to think about those who are struggling? Very few opportunities these days to make the money you do. And many of the jobs lost won't come back. What about those people? Our corporate leaders are making a killing without having to invest in new jobs. And if they did the Washington crowd would tax them to death. And the little guy is caught in the middle.

 

[cachsux]

I'm a socially conservative Christian who sees the writing on the wall.

Well as a good Christian you should live the life of poverty in order to serve your fellow man. You will be rewarded in the afterlife. Plus the Lord will help those who help themselves, not the whiners wanting part of what someone who has put forth the hard work has. After all, Thou shalt not covet.

 

[vantexan]

Well as a good Christian you should live the life of poverty in order to serve your fellow man. You will be rewarded in the afterlife. Plus the Lord will help those who help themselves, not the whiners wanting part of what someone who has put forth the hard work has. After all, Thou shalt not covet.

Spoken like someone who knows a little. So you are saying we who work hard are here to be exploited? Are you of the opinion that only management works hard? Compared to UPS drivers I'd say FedEx couriers are sacrificing. But since you are of the wealthy class remember that Jesus said it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than for a rich man to enter into heaven. And yes, the eye of the needle was a small door in the city gate wall. But I digress. I'm not asking for what you guys get, only that they do better by us than they have. Is that so bad? I already know your answer so consider it rhetorical.

 

[brett636]

Spoken like someone who knows a little. So you are saying we who work hard are here to be exploited? Are you of the opinion that only management works hard? Compared to UPS drivers I'd say FedEx couriers are sacrificing. But since you are of the wealthy class remember that Jesus said it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than for a rich man to enter into heaven. And yes, the eye of the needle was a small door in the city gate wall. But I digress. I'm not asking for what you guys get, only that they do better by us than they have. Is that so bad? I already know your answer so consider it rhetorical.

Let me try to put it to you another way. You want to fight poverty in this country by making sure you are living in poverty in the years of your life that you are least likely to be able to do something about it. Do you suggest we fight obesity by encouraging everyone to eat the largest box of donuts they can get their hands on, or fight forest fires by throwing lit match books into dry brush? Your cause may be just, but your method is neither effective nor prudent for those of us who want to enjoy our retirement. I also still stand by my earlier statement that many people who could afford to fund their 401k to a respectable level would rather have a new flat screen television and brand new vehicle now instead of enjoying their free time in retirement. There are two types of retirees in this world, those who are walmart greeters, and those who are on the golf course everyday, and as I see it you better brush up on those greeting skills because that is your future calling.

 

[vantexan]

Let me try to put it to you another way. You want to fight poverty in this country by making sure you are living in poverty in the years of your life that you are least likely to be able to do something about it. Do you suggest we fight obesity by encouraging everyone to eat the largest box of donuts they can get their hands on, or fight forest fires by throwing lit match books into dry brush? Your cause may be just, but your method is neither effective nor prudent for those of us who want to enjoy our retirement. I also still stand by my earlier statement that many people who could afford to fund their 401k to a respectable level would rather have a new flat screen television and brand new vehicle now instead of enjoying their free time in retirement. There are two types of retirees in this world, those who are walmart greeters, and those who are on the golf course everyday, and as I see it you better brush up on those greeting skills because that is your future calling.

Again, no one is saying walk away from your 401k forever. Yes, you do well, have a real stake in the game. You don't want anyone doing anything that might mess with your retirement funds. But it's a documented fact that 10's of millions of workers have been more or less forced out of the middle class in recent years while others have done well. This isn't about envy, it's about people wanting a better life. I was just pointing out, much to the chagrin of some, that we are contributing to our own demise by funding the wealth of the few with our 401k's. Thus we do have some measure of control over this process if we band together and cut off those funds. Obviously this will affect those who do well in this system and are able to adequately fund their own 401k. Thus the vitriol towards me. Better hope this idea doesn't catch on. By the way I'm all for someone who works hard and gets rewarded for taking a risk and starting a business. But it's a two way street. They provide the jobs but they also need our productivity. I'm not talking about redistributing wealth through taxes. I'm talking about a person who works hard for you should be rewarded. When benefits are reduced and pay raises slowed to a trickle, yet annual profits are doing well, there's a serious problem. And this is what's happening in many companies, not just FedEx. They could avoid alot of headaches by just being a bit more generous.

 

[brett636]

Again, no one is saying walk away from your 401k forever. Yes, you do well, have a real stake in the game. You don't want anyone doing anything that might mess with your retirement funds. But it's a documented fact that 10's of millions of workers have been more or less forced out of the middle class in recent years while others have done well. This isn't about envy, it's about people wanting a better life. I was just pointing out, much to the chagrin of some, that we are contributing to our own demise by funding the wealth of the few with our 401k's. Thus we do have some measure of control over this process if we band together and cut off those funds. Obviously this will affect those who do well in this system and are able to adequately fund their own 401k. Thus the vitriol towards me. Better hope this idea doesn't catch on. By the way I'm all for someone who works hard and gets rewarded for taking a risk and starting a business. But it's a two way street. They provide the jobs but they also need our productivity. I'm not talking about redistributing wealth through taxes. I'm talking about a person who works hard for you should be rewarded. When benefits are reduced and pay raises slowed to a trickle, yet annual profits are doing well, there's a serious problem. And this is what's happening in many companies, not just FedEx. They could avoid alot of headaches by just being a bit more generous.

Getting out of your 401k forever is exactly what your stating as whatever effect you are looking for simply won't happen. It also appears to me that you have a rudimentary understanding of investing at best, and do not have a clue that time is against you when it comes to saving for retirement. Every dollar you can stuff into your 401k now will be worth so much more later if it has a couple of decades or more of growth ahead of it. Stopping 401k investing now could mean a LOT of lost opportunity later even if you resume it later on. and all for what? To send a message that won't get received? Go ahead and jeopardize your own living standards in retirement for no good reason, I for one will continue to put money away for the foreseeable future.

 

[LTFedExer]

By stopping 401K contributions, you'll be hurting nobody but yourself. There's more than 3 million people that invest in employers retirement savings in Vanguard. If everyone stopped contributing, you MIGHT put a dent in SOME of the richies pockets. But, you will be the loser in the end.

 

[vantexan]

By stopping 401K contributions, you'll be hurting nobody but yourself. There's more than 3 million people that invest in employers retirement savings in Vanguard. If everyone stopped contributing, you MIGHT put a dent in SOME of the richies pockets. But, you will be the loser in the end.

I know a bit more about investing than you guys think. I'm also familiar with the adage "it takes money to make money". I can say this until I'm blue in the face but you'll only focus on me. The current system is ruining this country but what do you care? You've got yours and are prepared to attack anyone who might mess with that. It's too late for me, I'm 49. But I do care about my nephew and nieces future and still hope to have a couple of kids myself. You keep bringing up how I'll have to greet customers at Walmart. Got news for you, most of us underpaid folk will have to keep working just to scrape by. Well, I won't because I'm heading to South America. You believe your 401k's will give you a decent retirement? You'll need every penny. I know of plenty of nice enough places where I can get by on 20-30% of what you will pay. I'm fine, but way too many people are being taken advantage of. And if you turn a blind eye to it you are complicit in what's happening.

 

[LTFedExer]

I know a bit more about investing than you guys think. I'm also familiar with the adage "it takes money to make money". I can say this until I'm blue in the face but you'll only focus on me. The current system is ruining this country but what do you care? You've got yours and are prepared to attack anyone who might mess with that. It's too late for me, I'm 49. But I do care about my nephew and nieces future and still hope to have a couple of kids myself. You keep bringing up how I'll have to greet customers at Walmart. Got news for you, most of us underpaid folk will have to keep working just to scrape by. Well, I won't because I'm heading to South America. You believe your 401k's will give you a decent retirement? You'll need every penny. I know of plenty of nice enough places where I can get by on 20-30% of what you will pay. I'm fine, but way too many people are being taken advantage of. And if you turn a blind eye to it you are complicit in what's happening.

Your 49, I'm 45. You have nieces and nephews, I have a 10 & 12 year old. We're not that much different except that I know how to budget and get by pretty well and still save for retirement. Enjoy trying to change the system and have fun in South America.

 

[vantexan]

Your 49, I'm 45. You have nieces and nephews, I have a 10 & 12 year old. We're not that much different except that I know how to budget and get by pretty well and still save for retirement. Enjoy trying to change the system and have fun in South America.

You presume too much. Meet me here in 20 years and talk to me about how things are going for you, assuming the current political and corporate structures are still regressing from where they are today.

 

[cachsux]

I know a bit more about investing than you guys think. But not as much as you think.

I'm also familiar with the adage "it takes money to make money". I can say this until I'm blue in the face but you'll only focus on me. Do what you want,it`s nothing personal. But don`t get po`d at us if we don`t join you on the gallows.
The current system is ruining this country but what do you care? You've got yours and are prepared to attack anyone who might mess with that. You say "you`ve got yours" like you are talking about something we received as a gift. We`ve earned ours,invested ours,and made gains or losses on ours by our actions. Would I be happy to help someone learn how to get theirs, sure. Will I give you some of mine so you don`t have to work for yourself,no.

It's too late for me, I'm 49. Only if you feel that way.

But I do care about my nephew and nieces future and still hope to have a couple of kids myself. Then get them investing in their future now. Teach them what a dollar is and how to put a percentage of every one they earn into savings and simple investments.

You keep bringing up how I'll have to greet customers at Walmart. Got news for you, most of us underpaid folk will have to keep working just to scrape by. They will under your plan.

Well, I won't because I'm heading to South America.
I can put you in touch with a good Canadian travel agent.

You believe your 401k's will give you a decent retirement? You'll need every penny. I know of plenty of nice enough places where I can get by on 20-30% of what you will pay. Operating a weiner wagon in Cuba?

I'm fine, but way too many people are being taken advantage of. Like crack addicts those who want satisfaction now instead of in the future will always be taken advantage of by those in the business who`ll be happy to sell them their happiness.

And if you turn a blind eye to it you are complicit in what's happening. You can lead a horse to water but you can`t make them invest 20% of their income.

 

[cachsux]

You presume too much. Meet me here in 20 years and talk to me about how things are going for you, assuming the current political and corporate structures are still regressing from where they are today.

Whatever you say,Klein.

 

[vantexan]

Whatever you say,Klein.

Buddy, I was rehired in late '98 at $10.85hr. No problem, was told I'll top out in 7 to 8 years.(Quit in '97 at $13.50hr after getting a 39 cent raise, first raise in 4.5 years.). 12 years, 8 months later I'm at $17.64hr. No raise in 2009, 2% in 2010, 3.2% in 2011, insurance raised every year. Was willing to put up with the pay as long as I got the full traditional pension. Traditional pension terminated in 2008, replaced with a cash balance plan that probably won't pay 25% of what the traditional plan paid. You say you earned everything? I'll put my productivity numbers up against anyone. But while you, with the backing of your union, got rewarded for your hard work, all I got were lies, manipulations, and kicks in the teeth. You'll have your nice retirement, but my experience is much closer to what way too many are experiencing these days. Keep kidding yourself that you got everything because you deserve more than all these lazy people out there. And be thankful for what you do have. Comparing your rewards at UPS with mine at FedEx would be like comparing a Porsche with a Dodge Dart.

 

[cachsux]

Buddy, I was rehired in late '98 at $10.85hr. No problem, was told I'll top out in 7 to 8 years.(Quit in '97 at $13.50hr after getting a 39 cent raise, first raise in 4.5 years.). 12 years, 8 months later I'm at $17.64hr. No raise in 2009, 2% in 2010, 3.2% in 2011, insurance raised every year. Was willing to put up with the pay as long as I got the full traditional pension. Traditional pension terminated in 2008, replaced with a cash balance plan that probably won't pay 25% of what the traditional plan paid. You say you earned everything? I'll put my productivity numbers up against anyone. But while you, with the backing of your union, got rewarded for your hard work, all I got were lies, manipulations, and kicks in the teeth. You'll have your nice retirement, but my experience is much closer to what way too many are experiencing these days. Keep kidding yourself that you got everything because you deserve more than all these lazy people out there. And be thankful for what you do have. Comparing your rewards at UPS with mine at FedEx would be like comparing a Porsche with a Dodge Dart.

Gosh, I...I...feel terrible. Especially how we wouldn`t let you put an application in at UPS all those years ago. Everyone cuts their own deal.

 

[vantexan]

Gosh, I...I...feel terrible. Especially how we wouldn`t let you put an application in at UPS all those years ago. Everyone cuts their own deal.

I'm sure you do, LOL. I was offered a FT driver job in '91 by a UPS mgr. Stopped me on the street and asked if he could buy me lunch. Had been told about me by several drivers. FedEx wasn't too far behind UPS back then and we could transfer. Couldn't imagine spending the rest of my life in Emporia, KS. Hindsight being 20/20, wish I had accepted.

 

[brett636]

Buddy, I was rehired in late '98 at $10.85hr. No problem, was told I'll top out in 7 to 8 years.(Quit in '97 at $13.50hr after getting a 39 cent raise, first raise in 4.5 years.). 12 years, 8 months later I'm at $17.64hr. No raise in 2009, 2% in 2010, 3.2% in 2011, insurance raised every year. Was willing to put up with the pay as long as I got the full traditional pension. Traditional pension terminated in 2008, replaced with a cash balance plan that probably won't pay 25% of what the traditional plan paid. You say you earned everything? I'll put my productivity numbers up against anyone. But while you, with the backing of your union, got rewarded for your hard work, all I got were lies, manipulations, and kicks in the teeth. You'll have your nice retirement, but my experience is much closer to what way too many are experiencing these days. Keep kidding yourself that you got everything because you deserve more than all these lazy people out there. And be thankful for what you do have. Comparing your rewards at UPS with mine at FedEx would be like comparing a Porsche with a Dodge Dart.

So what I am reading is that you made a series of bad choices over the course of your working life and now are trying to encourage everyone on here to join you in your misery that will be retirement when the time comes. You could have quit a long time ago and come to work for UPS, or gone to school and changed careers, or any number of different things and yet here you are bitching about the problems you created acting like they are someone else's doing. I think I'm going to continue saving into my 401k and hope you find whatever great life you believes awaits you in South America. Goodluck!

 

[vantexan]

So what I am reading is that you made a series of bad choices over the course of your working life and now are trying to encourage everyone on here to join you in your misery that will be retirement when the time comes. You could have quit a long time ago and come to work for UPS, or gone to school and changed careers, or any number of different things and yet here you are bitching about the problems you created acting like they are someone else's doing. I think I'm going to continue saving into my 401k and hope you find whatever great life you believes awaits you in South America. Goodluck!

Really? I was working towards a full pension. They terminated it, the economy collapsed, and I'm now 49, diabetic, and almost dead from a clogged artery last January. But I stand by what I wrote. You corporate types are every bit as bad for the U.S. as the liberals running Washington. You may not like it, but it's true. You are exploiters. Pure and simple. And I was pointing out what it would take to smack you in the head and make you realize you can do better by your fellow man. You can make it about me all you want, but exploiting others for money is just scummy. Hope some day you wake up to that fact. I believe in earning my money, don't expect to be given anything. But the game is rigged and we are just here to be used. But hey, you got yours. As for South America, just making the best of a bad situation. But hey, I can get DirecTV there, Netflix will be available later this year, there are American owned movie theaters like Cinemark playing first run movies in English, I can download books on a Kindle or similar device, pay $15 dollars to see an American trained Doctor who speaks English, rent a fantastic apartment for less than $300 a month, eat lunches in nice restaurant for $3 while reading USAToday on an iPad, and live very comfortably for less than $800 a month. Good luck to you too!

 

[brett636]

Really? I was working towards a full pension. They terminated it, the economy collapsed, and I'm now 49, diabetic, and almost dead from a clogged artery last January. But I stand by what I wrote. You corporate types are every bit as bad for the U.S. as the liberals running Washington. You may not like it, but it's true. You are exploiters. Pure and simple. And I was pointing out what it would take to smack you in the head and make you realize you can do better by your fellow man. You can make it about me all you want, but exploiting others for money is just scummy. Hope some day you wake up to that fact. I believe in earning my money, don't expect to be given anything. But the game is rigged and we are just here to be used. But hey, you got yours. As for South America, just making the best of a bad situation. But hey, I can get DirecTV there, Netflix will be available later this year, there are American owned movie theaters like Cinemark playing first run movies in English, I can download books on a Kindle or similar device, pay $15 dollars to see an American trained Doctor who speaks English, rent a fantastic apartment for less than $300 a month, eat lunches in nice restaurant for $3 while reading USAToday on an iPad, and live very comfortably for less than $800 a month. Good luck to you too!

You can stand by what you wrote. I'm just pointing out that you admitted to making bad decision after bad decision over your working life, and now you have come up with an even worse idea but you want us all to believe its the answer to all our problems. Its kinda like if I was a bad businessman and had several failed businesses in my past, but now I want you and everyone else to dump their life savings into my newest idea because I just know its going to work this time. Saving for retirement does not require one to be a "corporatist", but simply a prudent human being interested in being self sufficient for the remainder of their life and even leave their heirs something afterwards. Consistently saving and investing over your entire working life can generate great rewards when you finally decide working for a living isn't for you. I'm 29 and I know social security won't be there for me, and my pension may or may not be there for me depending on future events, but I know my 401k will be there as long as I continue to stuff every dollar I can afford to in it. Myself and most reasonable people cannot make the connection between what your advocating we should do and what will happen if we do it. I just believe your a desperate person who has not been as prudent with your finances as you should have been just to now realize that you don't have enough as you near retirement and hoping you can talk others into a similar situation. As I said before goodluck with your 401k idea, but remember the only person you will be hurting is yourself.

 

[LTFedExer]

van - Correct me if I'm wrong here on what you have claimed so far.
1. You barely make enough money to scrape by. I take that as you're not putting money in savings.
2. You pay to much into your health insurance.
3. You stopped(?) contributing to your 401K.
4. You have no/small pension to look forward to.
My questions:
What will you do for health insurance?
You say you can live on $800/mo in SA, where will that $800/mo come from?
I REALLY DO hope things go well for you and you have it all thought out extremely well.

BTW, Vanguard has approximately $1.6 TRILLION in US mutual funds. Any stoppage of contributions will be negligible, to say the least.