FedEX buying back Ground Routes

[FedExer267]

Had the founder of UPS been able to see the future, suffice it to say he would not have invited in the Teamsters. Your "pie in the sky" understanding of union history is rather troubling in one so eager to see them.

bbsam do a poll and ask any driver (not Contractor) if they would want a union you maybe suprised to see if we had the chance we would do it in a heartbeat. It is very clear to any Driver that we will never get treated fairly, We go to work and get pulled in diffrent directions by management when we dont even work for them.
Thats why I have said all along it might be diffrent if there was some mandated pay structure for the Ground employees but no its up to Contractors they get to run that part of the business because its another cost FedEx gets out of. A union may not be the answer to all our problems but its a far better choice than what Contractors are peddling. A decent wage and OT alone would change the morale of alot of drivers.
The thing you dont seem to get is this is a billon dollar company that lives and dies by its frontline employees. If I go to every account 3 hours early and tell them I am here now for you pickup how long do you calculate we will have that account. If we actually got paid for every minute we were on the clock, Customer Service would be alot better. FedEx cannot expect to hire and maintain a workforce of Express and UPS standards for the sweat shop pay Contractors a peddling. Professional drivers will eventually get tired and off they go, Which for those that stick around that is why their service numbers come down because we dont care. If you dont care enough to give your employees a decent wage for busting their humps eventually it will take its toll.
You can fire them sure but thats what they want because then they get unemployement.

Maybe this is a rumor because once ISP is in high gear we are all employees of a actual Corporation and all it will take is a few unionizing which in essence will force Contractors to the table and once it is clear that you will no longer make the posh living your used to because you run a Union Shop FedEx will have no choice but to step in and start buying out Contractors and wouldn't you have the right to turn around and sue them for changing the illegal model to cover their butts and thats the model that forced you into bankruptcy. Just a thought

 

[Brown287]

Funny thing is that yes at this point this is nothing but rumor that was generated through a Ground building. Maybe it is nothing more than a manager trying to entice their drivers to stay longer or maybe it's nothing more than a manager telling contractors that they do not like that their days are numbered. Who knows, but I will say this that at this point out of everything that I have ever seen and heard in regards to the Ground side of FedEx, this is the only thing that truly makes sense.

Maybe the writing is on the wall and Smith realizes that through the ISP they have been lead down a dead end path. Maybe they believe that if they act first they can soften the blow maybe even be able to negotiate better contracts. Who really knows but I think that with this kind of talk going on inside the Ground buildings, that something is definitely a float.

 

[bbsam]

Oh, my. Your imagination is running away with you.

Maybe you haven't been around long enough. Maybe it all makes sense in your own small corner of the world. You see, back before there was a company called Fedex Ground, there was a company called RPS. Virtually all drivers back then were contractors. Guess what was happening back then? Everyone was feeling sorry for the contractors because they were getting the shaft even if they were failing due to there own incompetence at running a business. Oh, there were the same cries then of being micro-managed, and underpaid and generally screwed over. Now jump forward 20 years. Now it's all about the drivers are getting screwed. You see, the supporters of change, Lynn Faris and the Teamsters and Fedex Watch and MFE always had it in mind that change must take the form that they envisioned. Didn't happen that way. And regardless what a UPS man heard from a Ground driver on the west coast and posted on BC, we are farther from the Teamster's idea of needed change than ever before. That is not to say that things are not going to change for drivers, indeed they will and I believe they will be much better off in the near future. But to mirror Ground after UPS? No. That's not going to happen. And if you think management at Ground is riding you hard, I fully encourage you to apply at UPS. Brother, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

 

[Brown287]

SCAM maybe you do not believe anyone but you have the facts, but yes I am very aware of the existence of RPS and unlike you guys I am also very aware of the history of UPS. With that said what I was told does make sense in the regards of FedEx's supposed cost advantage, ask your self if FDX truly does have a cost advantage why is it that UPS not only enjoys a larger profit but a better profit margin. There truly is a cost advantage to having one person deliver every package. With that said every time FDX goes to court they end up morphing there contractor setup in some fashion. All this has effected their bottom line. So ask yourself anointed one, is it not possible for FDX to come to the conclusion that in the long run they will end up spending more money running things the way they are.

Anyways back to your clouded thoughts on what UPS would of or would of not done. Germany was the first country that they expanded into completely, at first they setup shop and ran things the way they wanted to. Production was down and that meant that profits were down. So they took a step back and realized that there pay was getting them sub par work from sub par employees. This resulted into UPS increasing the compensation of their employees, which in turn lead to more production and yes increased profits.

 

[FedExer267]

Sweatshop pay gets you employees that dont care, sub par pay gets you sub par work, a decent wage with OT gets you a employee that will do his best because he is getting PAID for his actual time.

It does not matter what they change the model to you will always have TM's and managers trying to run the show because this is how they are trained. FedEx believes in what we have been saying all along bbsam Inc. pays the cost but we run the show. This is FedEx not bbsam Inc. And to the customer we are FedEx not bbsam Inc. That is why the terminal blows up are cell phones all day wanting to know if we will reattempt a delivery or wanting to know if we can get to a pickup by a certain time because they are leaving early, or why we didnt deliver a box and put a code 12 on it. (pretty self explanatory Id think) or what time we will be in because there is a customer picking up a package. IF bbsam Inc truly ran the show wouldnt bbsam get these phone calls and then he could get intouch with his drivers. This is why we will not answer our phones we dont have company issued phones we have our own. I only answer my phone to people I want to talk to the rest can leave a message.

The Isp model opens the door for your employees to unionize because we are employees now. We get W2's not 1099's like RPS did. We are employees of your Corporation which covers FedEx's butt and puts all the risk on bbsam Inc. If your employees contact the union and go to meetings for a better way at work it will not be long before your sitting at the negotiation table. The wages and OT, benefits, vacation, sick days, and paid holidays will directly affect your bottomline. FedEx knows this which is why they could be gearing up for the inevitable. JMO

 

[bbsam]

Ah, to the profit like any good capitalist will flock! I would say that I don't know and neither do you, 287. Where does Fedex spend the income compared with UPS. I know that Ground has been pouring money into hubs and facilities and technology. While that depletes from the bottom line in terms of a balance sheet, it is still sound business, is it not? Seriously, the two UPS terminals around here haven't seen an upgrade literally in 20 years (I did use to work at one of them). Now, while the court costs are substantive, I doubt seriously that they eat up the "30% savings". Exactly what would that number be, anyway.

In my previous post (and I will reiterate it here) I said that I believe things will get much better for Ground drivers under the ISP agreements. Why? Because for the first time I will have the ability to go to the company and say, "Look, if we want good, competent, safe drivers, this is what the competition pays and therefore we have to be competitive with the market." I'm ready to do that. But I am also ready to hear from the company, "Fine. But the competition has drivers making 26 stops per hour in this area and if we are going to pay that money, this is what is expected." What's not fair about that? We may not get UPS scale, but we will get better. So you can remain snarky and insulting about the model all you want, but the fact remains your "information" (a driver as source) is even more limited than mine and the conclusions jumped to don't match what FDX has done in the past. A six month time-line? This company doesn't do anything that major on a six month time-line. May take six months to make a decision on the direction the company heads, but the actual momement? Never.

 

[bbsam]

Sweatshop pay gets you employees that dont care, sub par pay gets you sub par work, a decent wage with OT gets you a employee that will do his best because he is getting PAID for his actual time.

It does not matter what they change the model to you will always have TM's and managers trying to run the show because this is how they are trained. FedEx believes in what we have been saying all along bbsam Inc. pays the cost but we run the show. This is FedEx not bbsam Inc. And to the customer we are FedEx not bbsam Inc. That is why the terminal blows up are cell phones all day wanting to know if we will reattempt a delivery or wanting to know if we can get to a pickup by a certain time because they are leaving early, or why we didnt deliver a box and put a code 12 on it. (pretty self explanatory Id think) or what time we will be in because there is a customer picking up a package. IF bbsam Inc truly ran the show wouldnt bbsam get these phone calls and then he could get intouch with his drivers. This is why we will not answer our phones we dont have company issued phones we have our own. I only answer my phone to people I want to talk to the rest can leave a message.

The Isp model opens the door for your employees to unionize because we are employees now. We get W2's not 1099's like RPS did. We are employees of your Corporation which covers FedEx's butt and puts all the risk on bbsam Inc. If your employees contact the union and go to meetings for a better way at work it will not be long before your sitting at the negotiation table. The wages and OT, benefits, vacation, sick days, and paid holidays will directly affect your bottomline. FedEx knows this which is why they could be gearing up for the inevitable. JMO

I do get the phone calls. My employees do get w2's. They have for years. I've said it before, I'll say it again: your contractor sucks. I've offered to put something in the system to get the management team to back off over there, but you don't like that idea. I can only assume that you would rather have it to bitch about than to get something done about it. But that is surprising me less and less around here.

Do you really want to know what's going on? I do. Best example would be if we could contact an ISP out in Mass. See how the drivers like it. See how the system works. If it's not working and there are real problems, then I could see Fred "gearing up for the inevitable". But if they have a system up and running that is getting the job done? That's the direction they will head.

 

[FedExer267]

Just curious here bbsam how can you expect your drivers to do 26 stops a hour when our routes cover that of 12 UPS routes atleast in my area. I am pretty fast but I can only get off 18 a hour covering my 5 zips til I get to my last area that I have roughly around 30 stops a day and its all right there and I get those off in about 40 minutes.

If Ground and HD were combined and I had a smaller area no problem doing 26 a hour but I am a realist 26 a hour driving 300 miles covering 5 zipcodes is not going to happen.

 

[Brown287]

I know that Ground has been pouring money into hubs and facilities and technology. While that depletes from the bottom line in terms of a balance sheet, it is still sound business, is it not? Seriously, the two UPS terminals around here haven't seen an upgrade literally in 20 years (I did use to work at one of them).

This statement by you Bbsam has lead me to one conclusion, you know nothing and have lost all credibility with me. This statement has shown that you obviously know nothing about UPS and thus your knowledge of Ground has come under heavy scrutiny.

UPS has spent BILLIONS of dollars in past years upgrading and in fact re-inventing the world of delivery. Does PASS and EDD not ring a bell in your self righteous skull. At this point everything you say will be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[FedExer267]

I do get the phone calls. My employees do get w2's. They have for years. I've said it before, I'll say it again: your contractor sucks. I've offered to put something in the system to get the management team to back off over there, but you don't like that idea. I can only assume that you would rather have it to bitch about than to get something done about it. But that is surprising me less and less around here.

Do you really want to know what's going on? I do. Best example would be if we could contact an ISP out in Mass. See how the drivers like it. See how the system works. If it's not working and there are real problems, then I could see Fred "gearing up for the inevitable". But if they have a system up and running that is getting the job done? That's the direction they will head.

bbsam if you want to put something in the system please have at it. I remember that discussion and you asked what terminal I am in I believe I told you to send it to all because I for one am not going to give up my location. All that needs to be known is I am on the West. I am not bitching I am simply stating how the managers over here run the show. I dont need to be reminded my Contractor sucks I have known this for awhile.

Please fell free to contact any ISP I am always willing to listen. I for one do believe that somewhere out there they are decent Contractors who treat their guys well. If the ISP is that model and the drivers are truly happy then you will never have to worry about a union. Our decession to get a union in the door would be based off of our Contractor and his inability to treat his guys fairly. It really does not matter how much you make I for one could not see my Contractor stepping to the plate to make sure his guys are treated right. In the end no decision is personal its business and if we force him to the table then its a business decision on our part to be sure we are treated fairly. If he treats us fairly then he wont have to worry. I for one do not go to work and bust my hump everyday to get a crappy wage in return and live off of assistance. I do it because through our hard work we should be able to provide a decent life and not have to worry about where the next meal is coming from. I know we will never get UPS wages but come on 10 bucks a hour for this job is not right especially when FedEx hires temps at Peak and pays them 14 a hour with overtime.

 

[FedExer267]

I know that Ground has been pouring money into hubs and facilities and technology. While that depletes from the bottom line in terms of a balance sheet, it is still sound business, is it not? Seriously, the two UPS terminals around here haven't seen an upgrade literally in 20 years (I did use to work at one of them).

This statement by you Bbsam has lead me to one conclusion, you know nothing and have lost all credibility with me. This statement has shown that you obviously know nothing about UPS and thus your knowledge of Ground has come under heavy scrutiny.

UPS has spent BILLIONS of dollars in past years upgrading and in fact re-inventing the world of delivery. Does PASS and EDD not ring a bell in your self righteous skull. At this point everything you say will be taken with a grain of salt.

EDD ya I think thats where my foodstamps come from...lol
Seriously I know first hand that UPS has spent alot of money in making sure their drivers are more efficent I believe the PASS and EDD is the system that FedEx is copying right now for their Ground operations to make their drivers more efficent. It is a big mess right now but that being said it doesnt matter how easy they try and make the job copying UPS still wont give you UPS quality service when those guys enjoy being employees with a great wage and benefit package, we still will be the lowest paid in the industry which means you will still get below par service. If you want great service you need to start with our pay because nothing is free.

 

[bbsam]

I know that Ground has been pouring money into hubs and facilities and technology. While that depletes from the bottom line in terms of a balance sheet, it is still sound business, is it not? Seriously, the two UPS terminals around here haven't seen an upgrade literally in 20 years (I did use to work at one of them).

This statement by you Bbsam has lead me to one conclusion, you know nothing and have lost all credibility with me. This statement has shown that you obviously know nothing about UPS and thus your knowledge of Ground has come under heavy scrutiny.

UPS has spent BILLIONS of dollars in past years upgrading and in fact re-inventing the world of delivery. Does PASS and EDD not ring a bell in your self righteous skull. At this point everything you say will be taken with a grain of salt.

Sir, you quote a driver who heard from a local management person that Fedex is going to buyout contractors and you want to question what I say? Fine, but your willingness to come on here and suggest that this is true is a stretch.

You are correct about the upgrading in technology. I was not considering that. I was talking about the buildings themselves. Same structures, same cramped setup at peak with crappy aluminum and steel rollers running off the conveyor lines. That is fact. Of course I was transposing that fact withe the many hubs and terminals being opened across the country in the same time period. That is also a fact. upsyo could probably verify this if you find me unbelievable.

Now, that you hold me in such low esteem cannot mean much to me since you never have held me in high esteem so I can only assume that it somehow strokes your ego to say such a thing. So if that adipose tissue between your ears feels better because of it, then fine. I find it kind of ridiculous.

 

[FedExer267]

So I talked to a driver today who had heard the samething as Brown287. I listened to what he had to say however I have a hard time believing that FedEx would even be entertaining this idea. I mean look at everything they did to keep Express under the RLA.
The one thing that does make sense is FedEx fully believes as ISP rolls out drivers will unionize against their Contractor because the average Contractor has no want or desire to pay his drivers more. They see the IBT playing a big part in this and eventually the Contractors will go broke paying a decent wage with all the bells and whistles that goes with being a employee. He said that FedEx's only recourse will be to step in and buyout Contractors and basically have a union run shop. They are running out of options the ISP is the last ditch effort they have to keep from paying all the costs of running us as employees. So apparently FedEx is planning for the inevitable. To add to this apparently there already are some Ground terminals that have signed thier union cards, so however this plays out it will be intresting to see.

 

[bbsam]

What is keeping the contrator's drivers from joining a union right now? Why wait for the ISP? 267, are you and your fellow drivers unionizing? If not, how would working for an ISP be different than working for your slum-lord contractor?

 

[bbsam]

Ground terminals signing union cards? Care to name which ones, or is this another baseless rumor that we "heard from a driver out on a route"? Again, these corporate plans don't leak down to the terminal level.

 

[DOWNTRODDEN IN TEXAS]

I also heard that some Ground facilities have gone union, but I heard it from the Teamsters. I could see Fred waiting until the contractors can't afford to pay what would be in the contracts, folding and buying every route back for pennies on the dollar and restaffing with non-union employees.

 

[MrFedEx]

I also heard that some Ground facilities have gone union, but I heard it from the Teamsters. I could see Fred waiting until the contractors can't afford to pay what would be in the contracts, folding and buying every route back for pennies on the dollar and restaffing with non-union employees.

But "non-employees" can't form a union, right? This is just another reason why Fred wouldn't want real employees, because they might go union, especially at Ground, because they would be NLRA, not RLA.

 

[FedEx2000]

If there is any truth to it.....Wouldn't it make more sense for FedEx to just roll Ground into Express and have them all covered by the RLA? Why buy out Ground routes/trucks, make them employees, and give them equal or better pay than Express in addition to being union....makes no sense to me.

 

[DOWNTRODDEN IN TEXAS]

Because if Fred did roll it all up into one entity, then he has all these "employees" that may or may not meet all the minimum requirements...or speak English, or be all inked up. And they would have to learn how to drive a truck without their cell phones in their ears and all the doors open, also can't forget those pesky seat belts! (This is in NO WAY intended to offend the Ground guys, but these are the examples I see on a regular basis..)

 

[MrFedEx]

If there is any truth to it.....Wouldn't it make more sense for FedEx to just roll Ground into Express and have them all covered by the RLA? Why buy out Ground routes/trucks, make them employees, and give them equal or better pay than Express in addition to being union....makes no sense to me.

This really sounds like a bogus rumor, unless FedEx has decided the ISP Ground model will eventually be declared illegal. That's a possibility, but having Fred ever open the door to a union would seem highly unlikely. Your scenario sounds more plausible, because he just spent over $25m to keep us under his precious RLA.