Feeder Pre-Trip Inspections

[Dracula]

Well, I'm the one who went home because of the snubber and the grievance was finally settled. I cannot make total sense of this, and being as nothing is ever written,,,well you know! They paid me 8 hrs to make me whole. But yet, the decision (as I was told) is that the snubber doesn't have to be working. I have to take it the way it is (snubber not working). If I do not feel safe with it, UPS doesn't have to give me other work as my 8 hour guarantee, UPS has the right to FIRE ME. This is per my business agent. Yes, you can work around it for while, but when it's heard in PCM that no sets to be reversed without approval from dispatch, or something similar? so now,,,what happens with that hot rail trailer with the low tire and a very low tire? change it, or take it like it is if told to do so? refusal? The way things are now, if your someone not thought of highly from dispatch, you'd better take it. let's face it, SAFETY IS OUT THE WINDOW.

Well, I feel you. I get a lot of crap from sups because I always take my equipment back to the shop if anything is amiss. I've never pushed the issue with the snubber, but I have switched boxes before. We were trained that the snubber not engaging isn't a safety issue, but an inconvenience. And if you notice on the road, other truck companies that run doubles don't even have snubbers on the back of some trailers. But it is annoying to feel that thumping when you pull a set where the snubber keeps popping out. I'm sorry it worked out the way it did for you, because it's bs to listen to dumbasses tell you how to do your job, both managers and union reps. It sounds like your situation was made an example of, and the line has been drawn in the sand. If it happens here, I'll just switch the set around without asking anyone. I'll let them bitch at me the next day if they want. I'm used to that.

But as far as a low tire, that's definitely safety related. If they had a problem with that, I'd tell them that you want to talk to the DOT, and that you're giving them their name. We've done that here, and it shuts them up right away. Get yourself a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulation book. You can get them here: Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations Pocketbook (Green Book™) - Transportation, Safety, Human Resources Compliance - J. J. Keller & Associates

There is nothing in the green book about snubbers, but there is plenty of stuff you would be interested. Tire pressures are definitely in there, and are not something to mess around with. I don't care how hot that trailer is, I'm getting that changed whether they tell me not to or not. That's a DOT violation, plain and simple. In our area, many of us aren't thought of too highly by dispatch and management, and arguments are very common. Who cares? I won't compromise on safety issues, and many of our drivers won't either. If they don't like it, they can go climb a sticky pole. The part-time sups that control my trailers often forget to secure my loads. The green book specifically says ALL loads are to be braced or strapped. No exceptions. And it's not my job to do it, either. SO I always go get a hub sup, if they're there. If their not, I go to dispatch and tell them that my load isn't dispatched and that someone needs to do it. That's when the fireworks used to start. They would tell me just to go ahead, but I told them that is against DOT regulations. After a few heated arguments, they got the point and it isn't an issue anymore because they got all over the hub supervisors.

But the point is, if it is a safety violation, don't leave until it's corrected. You are under no obligation to take something that is unsafe or a violation of DOT regulations. Unfortunately, the snubber not working is uncomfortable, but not a safety violation. But I can't fault you for trying to stand your ground.

 

[Dracula]

I would just make frequent stops to verify that everything is ok. Ffrequent, frequent stops, if you follow me. Make it worth your while to be uncomfortable.

 

[trickpony1]

If it's an OEM snubber, shouldn't it be working before going on road?
That's like saying, "some of my lights don't work but I'll take it on the road anyway.".
If it's on the trailer it needs to be working.

Consider the forces and wear on the pintle hook by that donut hammering on it because the snubber isn't set. Does the company want a lawsuit if that substandard, not fully functioning pintle hook/snubber breaks and releases a trailer especially when the company knew, or should have known, it wasn't functioning properly?

I don't think so.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

Safety first!!!unless it costs time or money....then its safety last!!....unless you get into an accident!!Then its your fault!! Its like playing Monopoly with a 2year old on crack!!!

 

[104Feeder]

Well, I'm the one who went home because of the snubber and the grievance was finally settled. I cannot make total sense of this, and being as nothing is ever written,,,well you know! They paid me 8 hrs to make me whole. But yet, the decision (as I was told) is that the snubber doesn't have to be working. I have to take it the way it is (snubber not working). If I do not feel safe with it, UPS doesn't have to give me other work as my 8 hour guarantee, UPS has the right to FIRE ME. This is per my business agent. Yes, you can work around it for while, but when it's heard in PCM that no sets to be reversed without approval from dispatch, or something similar? so now,,,what happens with that hot rail trailer with the low tire and a very low tire? change it, or take it like it is if told to do so? refusal? The way things are now, if your someone not thought of highly from dispatch, you'd better take it. let's face it, SAFETY IS OUT THE WINDOW.

You should file a complaint yesterday with OSHA under the STAA whistleblowers provision. Call Josh Paul at 415-625-2527.

 

[Dracula]

Hey, I never leave without the snubber be engaged, but I remember them telling us in feeder school that there wasn't a safety issue if it didn't engage. I went through the green book last night and I couldn't find anything regarding the snubber. BTW, here, we call it the plunger, but that's neither here nor there. I'm on your side here, but I'm just trying to find some black and white on this issue, and I'm not finding it. I drive with a bunch of high seniority guys, so I'll talk to them tonight about it to get some more opinions. Like I said earlier, The union instructed you what to do, to the point that they had a PCM with all of the drivers about it. We've never had an issue with this here. So if our plunger isn't working, we move our boxes around. By all means, call the DOT and see if they can give you something in concrete. But don't get fired for it, since your union rep said to do it.

But never skip over a safety issue just because you appear to have lost this issue. NEVER.

 

[over9five]

Hey, I never leave without the snubber be engaged, but I remember them telling us in feeder school that there wasn't a safety issue if it didn't engage. I went through the green book last night and I couldn't find anything regarding the snubber. BTW, here, we call it the plunger, but that's neither here nor there. I'm on your side here, but I'm just trying to find some black and white on this issue, and I'm not finding it. I drive with a bunch of high seniority guys, so I'll talk to them tonight about it to get some more opinions. Like I said earlier, The union instructed you what to do, to the point that they had a PCM with all of the drivers about it. We've never had an issue with this here. So if our plunger isn't working, we move our boxes around. By all means, call the DOT and see if they can give you something in concrete. But don't get fired for it, since your union rep said to do it.

But never skip over a safety issue just because you appear to have lost this issue. NEVER.

Just curious what you'd do if the kite snubber didn't work either after you had switched them around.

And I'm real interested what the DOT would say. I agree that it's not required, plenty of combos out there without snubbers. So I would also agree that it is not a safety issue.

What I wonder about is the FACT that it is equipment on your vehicle that is defective.

 

[purplesky]

Why not just red tag the box with a bad snubber once you get the hot loads to their destination? Or tell the meet guy to do it once he gets back to his bldg?


If a bad snubber is DOT violation UPS would not allow you to leave the property.

 

[tae111]

Have you ever watched a sup getting tested on the pre trip? You would think the person actually driving the loaded equipment would do the same pre trip they have to do.

 

[anonymous6]

I would just make frequent stops to verify that everything is ok. Ffrequent, frequent stops, if you follow me. Make it worth your while to be uncomfortable.

we have been hassled with the new IVIS for making tire inspection stops. ( which are required by the DOT ) I was asked "when was the last time you found a bad tire? " and i was told not to make anymore tire insp. stops. I do anyway.

DOT says that the driver is responsible for the whole combination so the driver is allowed to stop 100 times if he or she feels, sounds, sees, something amiss. it;s your license on the line, buddy.

walkarounds are not just for tires I told him. you check air line connections, safety chains may be dragging, or something may be hanging. a lot can happen in a couple hours. It only takes 2-3 minutes at most.

 

[bluehdmc]

we have been hassled with the new IVIS for making tire inspection stops. ( which are required by the DOT ) I was asked "when was the last time you found a bad tire? " and i was told not to make anymore tire insp. stops. I do anyway.

DOT says that the driver is responsible for the whole combination so the driver is allowed to stop 100 times if he or she feels, sounds, sees, something amiss. it;s your license on the line, buddy.

walkarounds are not just for tires I told him. you check air line connections, safety chains may be dragging, or something may be hanging. a lot can happen in a couple hours. It only takes 2-3 minutes at most.

We've had drivers hassled about bathroom breaks, etc. Just say you thought you saw smoke coming from rear wheel. (Optical illusion).
Funny if you stop you're wrong, if you breakdown, you're wrong, if something goes wrong, it's, "You didn't do a proper pre-trip."

 

[Dracula]

we have been hassled with the new IVIS for making tire inspection stops. ( which are required by the DOT ) I was asked "when was the last time you found a bad tire? " and i was told not to make anymore tire insp. stops. I do anyway.

DOT says that the driver is responsible for the whole combination so the driver is allowed to stop 100 times if he or she feels, sounds, sees, something amiss. it;s your license on the line, buddy.

walkarounds are not just for tires I told him. you check air line connections, safety chains may be dragging, or something may be hanging. a lot can happen in a couple hours. It only takes 2-3 minutes at most.

Ours are called safety checks, and we're given roughly 7 to 8 minutes. We usually pull into a truck stop or a gas station and go the bathroom and check all of our hoses, tires, hub heat, lights, drain any moisture out of all of the air tanks and anything else that might go wrong on our equipment. No way would I skip that. Besides, we do it around halfway through our drive, which is when we have to use the restroom. If they tell you you can't do it, I would tell them you need to call the DOT to check.

 

[anonymous6]

Ours are called safety checks, and we're given roughly 7 to 8 minutes. We usually pull into a truck stop or a gas station and go the bathroom and check all of our hoses, tires, hub heat, lights, drain any moisture out of all of the air tanks and anything else that might go wrong on our equipment. No way would I skip that. Besides, we do it around halfway through our drive, which is when we have to use the restroom. If they tell you you can't do it, I would tell them you need to call the DOT to check.

we have a lot of "superstar" drivers that don't even know what a pre and post trip is. they drive straight thru to their TA. I swear it's in about the 90% range. the rest of us get hassled for doing ours and their jobs.

 

[104Feeder]

Have you ever watched a sup getting tested on the pre trip? You would think the person actually driving the loaded equipment would do the same pre trip they have to do.

I've watched them walk around the vehicle, calling out things they are supposedly "inspecting" then signing the DVIR off as if everything is fine. Then I point out what broken stuff they missed.

 

[104Feeder]

we have been hassled with the new IVIS for making tire inspection stops. ( which are required by the DOT ) I was asked "when was the last time you found a bad tire? " and i was told not to make anymore tire insp. stops. I do anyway.

DOT says that the driver is responsible for the whole combination so the driver is allowed to stop 100 times if he or she feels, sounds, sees, something amiss. it;s your license on the line, buddy.

walkarounds are not just for tires I told him. you check air line connections, safety chains may be dragging, or something may be hanging. a lot can happen in a couple hours. It only takes 2-3 minutes at most.

What I've researched says that stopping just for tire inspections only applies to placarded vehicles (397.17). However, you should be doing a brief inspection of your tires, lights, and coupling devices anytime you leave the sight of your vehicle (i.e. going to the restroom), and of course anytime you suspect something might not be right such as losing air pressure or signs your lights are out on the rear box etc.

As for the "when is the last time you found a bad tire?" question, many times I could answer "yesterday". If you keep to the requirements in 393.75 quite a few tires will not pass muster. That said, overall UPS does a pretty good job of keeping satisfactory tires in our front line equipment.

I wouldn't push the stopping for inspection's sake thing too far, that's a Beverly Calhoon path. If you act reasonably & keep some notes about what problems caused you to stop you should be OK, but having it happen every single day at the same time would raise red flags.

 

[Integrity]

we have a lot of "superstar" drivers that don't even know what a pre and post trip is. they drive straight thru to their TA. I swear it's in about the 90% range. the rest of us get hassled for doing ours and their jobs.

orangputeh,

They disgrace the Teamsters, their families and UPS.

They also contribute to danger on the US highways and byways.

They should be ashamed.

Ever feel you should blow the whistle on them?

This behavior puts innocent families at risk as they travel the highways of this great country.

Do they really have a right to do that?

Sincerely,
I

 

[QKRSTKR]

When I took my test with the state you are only required to get 67 out of a possible 90. I don't think the DOT is the measure we should be aiming for. You can forget 23 things and still pass a state test. Now that's scary. The thing you do have to ace though is the air brake inspection. Have to do everything and do it right. UPS methods, as count said, doesn't include the 3 sec. Timing check, or 4 sec. If hooked.

 

[Dracula]

we have a lot of "superstar" drivers that don't even know what a pre and post trip is. they drive straight thru to their TA. I swear it's in about the 90% range. the rest of us get hassled for doing ours and their jobs.

Yep, that's why the rest of us are dealing with low tires and faulty snubbers.

 

[Dracula]

What I've researched says that stopping just for tire inspections only applies to placarded vehicles (397.17). However, you should be doing a brief inspection of your tires, lights, and coupling devices anytime you leave the sight of your vehicle (i.e. going to the restroom), and of course anytime you suspect something might not be right such as losing air pressure or signs your lights are out on the rear box etc.

As for the "when is the last time you found a bad tire?" question, many times I could answer "yesterday". If you keep to the requirements in 393.75 quite a few tires will not pass muster. That said, overall UPS does a pretty good job of keeping satisfactory tires in our front line equipment.

I wouldn't push the stopping for inspection's sake thing too far, that's a Beverly Calhoon path. If you act reasonably & keep some notes about what problems caused you to stop you should be OK, but having it happen every single day at the same time would raise red flags.

We do it with management, during our rides. The only thing they tell us is that we can't buy anything when we go in a truck stop to use the restroom.

 

[cachsux]

Kill two birds with one stone. Pee on the hubs during safety stop.