Income Inequality

[newfie]

but i agree he has benefited from the system he criticizes. but theres not really an alternative, unless he engages in a cooperative book distribution. .

Then his living example disproves what he says.

 

[rickyb]

Then his living example disproves what he says.

yea but they all do that. its not just chris. you can throw probably everyone who criticizes capitalism into that group. so for me its not really a way of distinguishing a liar from someones whos committed to freedom , truth, and justice.

and i just want to say again that profits are not unique to capitalism; slavery, feudalism, and state socialism also have profits.

 

[newfie]

yea but they all do that. its not just chris. you can throw probably everyone who criticizes capitalism into that group. so for me its not really a way of distinguishing a liar from someones whos committed to freedom , truth, and justice.

and i just want to say again that profits are not unique to capitalism; slavery, feudalism, and state socialism also have profits.

yea but. you keep trying to use this guy to prove that capitalism does not work. His living example proves it does work.

 

[rickyb]

yea but. you keep trying to use this guy to prove that capitalism does not work. His living example proves it does work.

well capitalism works in a sense, and it doesnt work in another sense. chris being a successful journalist doesnt mean that capitalism is working for the rest of the population.

i think if u consider its compatibility with the environment, then you can say as it is right now capitalism doesnt work, but of course that means believing in climate change and that capitalism unhindered will consume the environment to the point that it can not work. im guessing capitalism could be reformed, but they would be serious reforms. but i also dont like it because its not democratic enough.

but aside from global warming, which im guessing you dont believe in, you can ask the question "for whom is capitalism working?" and then "why?"

and then you can look at the BS at your jobs (which nobody disputes) and ask "why is this continuing to happen?" and then ask "if we the workers voted democratically, would vote to do this to ourselves?"

 

[JL 0513]

will give you an idea about how the economy really works.

That's not at all how the economy works. The problem is, is that you focus in on the negative stories inevitable in any society. Every society has its bad apples who don't play by the rules or who are immoral. Bad people will cheat and steal. You can make all kinds of laws and people will break them. Murder is illegal, people continue to murder.

You've been convinced that capitalism is bad. How about you open up your mind and look at what it has done. The audio you posted is about the auto industry. You realize that without capitalism, we'd still be riding horseback. Apparently, based on your ideology, you'd much prefer to be living in ancient times before capitalism gave us EVERYTHING we enjoy today.

You, on the other hand, seem to support advancements in "sustainable" living. "Green" energy, new forms of transportation, etc. The only way this can happen is capitalism just like every other tech advancement in history. Nothing happens unless someone stands to benefit from it. And what's wrong with that? Would you work your butt off and invest capital in developing something new only to be left poor and hungry on the street? This is what you're not understanding about capitalism. Capitalism is simply trading your services for compensation. Everyone who works and gets a check on Friday is a capitalist.

 

[rickyb]

That's not at all how the economy works. The problem is, is that you focus in on the negative stories inevitable in any society. Every society has its bad apples who don't play by the rules or who are immoral. Bad people will cheat and steal. You can make all kinds of laws and people will break them. Murder is illegal, people continue to murder.

You've been convinced that capitalism is bad. How about you open up your mind and look at what it has done. The audio you posted is about the auto industry. You realize that without capitalism, we'd still be riding horseback. Apparently, based on your ideology, you'd much prefer to be living in ancient times before capitalism gave us EVERYTHING we enjoy today.

You, on the other hand, seem to support advancements in "sustainable" living. "Green" energy, new forms of transportation, etc. The only way this can happen is capitalism just like every other tech advancement in history. Nothing happens unless someone stands to benefit from it. And what's wrong with that? Would you work your butt off and invest capital in developing something new only to be left poor and hungry on the street? This is what your're not understanding about capitalism. Capitalism is simply trading your services for compensation. Everyone who works and gets a check on Friday is a capitalist.

fyi, george bush also said it was just a few bad apples doing corporate crime

i would encourage you to listen to ralph nader, and noam chomsky, and richard wolff who does an economic radio program. the first 2 will especially give you a different perspective on things.

then we can talk.

 

[BrownArmy]

That's not at all how the economy works...()

To be fair, you guys are like the opposite sides of a coin.

You champion the 'free markets', as if they were actually free.

He focuses on the disparaging effects of the 'free market' for real people in our 'capitalist' economy.

It's a pickle!

 

[newfie]

well capitalism works in a sense, and it doesnt work in another sense. chris being a successful journalist doesnt mean that capitalism is working for the rest of the population.
"

you're wobbling. The guy you have provided us to criticize capitalism has lived a nice life thanks to capitalism. what his words say are irrelevant, his life has been a shining endorsement of capitalism.

 

[JL 0513]

well capitalism works in a sense, and it doesnt work in another sense. chris being a successful journalist doesnt mean that capitalism is working for the rest of the population.

i think if u consider its compatibility with the environment, then you can say as it is right now capitalism doesnt work, but of course that means believing in climate change and that capitalism unhindered will consume the environment to the point that it can not work. im guessing capitalism could be reformed, but they would be serious reforms. but i also dont like it because its not democratic enough.

but aside from global warming, which im guessing you dont believe in, you can ask the question "for whom is capitalism working?" and then "why?"

and then you can look at the BS at your jobs (which nobody disputes) and ask "why is this continuing to happen?" and then ask "if we the workers voted democratically, would vote to do this to ourselves?"

What is your Utopian vision of an economic system? How do you think anything would be created without a marketplace. What jobs would there be? And if no one is working and paying taxes, how would there be a government doing all the wonderful things you want?

You're talking about these workers rights. There wouldn't be any companies to work for so what's your point?

You say capitalism doesn't work for everybody. Name me a system that does or could. Socialism leads to misery for all even though the original intent is providing for all. You have dreams that don't add up in reality. It's not complicated. Tons of wealth must be generated in a society for the overall public to have lifestyles such as the ones we enjoy in the US. The best standard of living in history. You want us to have nice lives but you're against wealth creation. Think about what you're wishing for.

 

[rickyb]

you're wobbling. The guy you have provided us to criticize capitalism has lived a nice life thanks to capitalism. what his words say are irrelevant, his life has been a shining endorsement of capitalism.

hes lived a nice life because of a combination of things, him being smart, luck, growing up in america which is better than alot of other countries, capitalism might have something to do with it, etc.

capitalism also had something to do with the wars hes covered as a journalist. it also had something to do with the modern day american cities which look like theyve been bombed out after the jobs have been outsourced which he covered.

i dont see why you cant take information from someone whos benefitted from capitalism and criticizes it at the same time. and i personally don't know anyone who i listen to who hasnt benefited from it in some way. but they have also suffered from it, and its providing worse prospects for their kids. i mean what your proposing is listen to someone who hasnt gotten their money by means of capitailsm. i dont know anyone famous like that. and i would say thats more of a reflection of the system and conditions that it dictates then on them.

 

[rickyb]

To be fair, you guys are like the opposite sides of a coin.

You champion the 'free markets', as if they were actually free.

He focuses on the disparaging effects of the 'free market' for real people in our 'capitalist' economy.

It's a pickle!

JL is a little too far out there for me.

 

[JL 0513]

JL is a little too far out there for me.

I hope so. You're in line with Karl Marx. No thanks.

I'm American.

 

[BrownArmy]

JL is a little too far out there for me.

I assure you he thinks the same of you.

 

[BrownArmy]

I hope so. You're in line with Karl Marx. No thanks.

I'm American.

Frankly, you peddle a 'middle-school' idealized version of capitalism.

It's really not all that simple.

Your idea about the 'free' markets is just that...an idea.

We don't live in a country of 'free' markets, by any stretch of the imagination.

I love capitalism, but my eyes are open.

 

[JL 0513]

Frankly, you peddle a 'middle-school' idealized version of capitalism.

It's really not all that simple.

Your idea about the 'free' markets is just that...an idea.

We don't live in a country of 'free' markets, by any stretch of the imagination.

I love capitalism, but my eyes are open.

Yes, it's extraordinarily complex. Our massive bloated government has made it much more complicated than it has it be. I'm not idealizing it, I'm just not focusing on the small portion of it where some people abuse it. Leftist extremists focus on the negative and forget that everything exists because of it.

I've never suggested we live in a totally free market. Hong Kong was the closest to that and they enjoyed explosive growth for it. But I think we can generalize enough to be called a "free market system" for lack of a yet invented term.

Our best economic growth periods were those with less regulations and government intervention. I yearn to get back to that. But government never retracts. There's 3 facts of life: Death, taxes, and government growth.

 

[Sportello]

Our best economic growth periods were those with less regulations and government intervention. I yearn to get back to that. But government never retracts.

Our best economic growth period was after WWII. That had a little to do with it. The growth wasn't all due to less regulation and intervention.

 

[newfie]

I assure you he thinks the same of you.

you sure seem sensitive tonight when someone disagrees with Ricky

 

[Babagounj]

The real problem rickyb has is that he has no money .
I have money which I worked and broke my body to earn .
He will not subject himself to do the same .
Thus all he can do is whine about it .

 

[Sportello]

The real problem rickyb has is that he has no money .
I have money which I worked and broke my body to earn .
He will not subject himself to do the same .
Thus all he can do is whine about it .

1) assumption
2) didn't follow safe work methods
3) he'd be a fool to
4) rambling is not whining

 

[Browntown2014]

Oh, I don't know.

I am obviously not in the top 62 richest people.

But I went from nothing to owning a home, 3 cars, a motorcycle and lots more.

Capitalism benefits those willing to work hard.

Lol you couldn't have done any of that without a union which is as far from capitalism as one gets. Guys like you need to take a hard look in the mirror and think about all the sacrifices that older union members made to give you all the material goods you are privy to now.