Income Inequality
- Thread starter moreluck
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newfie
Well-Known Member
key word is can, the alternative is to sit on your but do nothing and never succeed.
im not talking about the alternative, im saying increasingly there are people who are trying to save themselves and are not succeeding, and its beyond their control.
no kidding, but capitalism is turning into 1 big road block for american workers
JL 0513
Well-Known Member
Your posts make it clear you don't even know what "capitalism" is. I think you just visualize the Monopoly guy.
Capitalism is simply the free market. Make of it what you can.
Are you looking for equal results? How do you even think that could be achieved even if we wanted it? You're not thinking this through. If we tried what you are looking for, we'd ALL be poor and starving except for the benevolent ruler who promised to equalize everyone and provide all of our needs.
Ever notice little things like why free societies have an abundance of food? And non-free societies go hungry? We have all the food we can eat because of market incentive. When someone produces something people need and can sell it at profit, you get plenty of supply. If you are not allowed to profit (capitalize on it), you don't bother producing it. No food. This is the same for everything we have.
Compare a car from 2016 to one just 15 years ago. The advancements are astounding. Why do you think this is? Because each automaker determines that you must continue to advance your product to compete and sell, otherwise you're gone. We've seen state run auto industries in the past (Soviets). Worst cars in history because it meant no competition and no incentive to turn out a great product. Profit is the basis of why we live the rich lives we live.
Eliminate capitalism and expect....
Perhaps Americans need to be reminded by pictures like these. Half of America complains about how awful America is. Open up your eyes. We have the greatest existence in human history.
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newfie
Well-Known Member
ok so do nothing and fail for sure?
Your posts make it clear you don't even know what "capitalism" is. I think you just visualize the Monopoly guy.
Capitalism is simply the free market. Make of it what you can.
Are you looking for equal results? How do you even think that could be achieved even if we wanted it? You're not thinking this through. If we tried what you are looking for, we'd ALL be poor and starving except for the benevolent ruler who promised to equalize everyone and provide all of our needs.
Ever notice little things like why free societies have an abundance of food? And non-free societies go hungry? We have all the food we can eat because of market incentive. When someone produces something people need and can sell it at profit, you get plenty of supply. If you are not allowed to profit (capitalize on it), you don't bother producing it. No food. This is the same for everything we have.
Compare a car from 2016 to one just 15 years ago. The advancements are astounding. Why do you think this is? Because each automaker determines that you must continue to advance your product to compete and sell, otherwise you're gone. We've seen state run auto industries in the past (Soviets). Worst cars in history because it meant no competition and no incentive to turn out a great product. Profit is the basis of why we live the rich lives we live.
Eliminate capitalism and expect....
Perhaps Americans need to be reminded by pictures like these. Half of America complains about how awful America is. Open up your eyes. We have the greatest existence in human history.
i think we both have an idea what capitalism is.
never forget those who control the economy also control the dominant ideology.
you actually have declining standards of living. im sure you dont disagree with me that your democracy is in decline.
no im not looking for equal results. i am looking for an economy which is sustainable, and an economy where the workers own and make decisions at the jobs they work in.
there are societies which are more free than others, but im not aware of any country where the majority of people are "free". but this is a matter of perspective and standards. your standard of freedom might be lower than mine. if taking orders from a boss, working in conditions you often dont like, and getting paid $30/hr, and doing that 5 days a week for most of the year fits your definition of freedom, then congratulations.
alot of americans go hungry, and especially american kids.
#3 Right now, one out of every seven Americans is on food stamps and one out of every four American children is on food stamps.
#4 It is projected that half of all American children will be on food stamps at least once before they turn 18 years of age.
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/...ut-hunger-in-america-that-will-blow-your-mind
and while were talking about profits and food, your food supply is toxic for your health. loaded with added sugar, sodium, and chemicals.
http://cspinet.org/reports/chemcuisine.htm
all of the big automakers seem to be colluding with each other and big oil if you ask me. without reading anything about it, it seems suspicious that tesla with only 10 years or so of existence is making an electric car which the big automakers have refused to do.
https://blog.nader.org/2006/02/20/gm-keeps-fuel-efficiency-in-the-dark-ages/
realbrown1
Annoy a liberal today. Hit them with facts.
oldngray, newfie, baba
7:00 roughly to 9:30
http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/video_days_of_revolt_chris_hedges_detroit_actvists_20160126
7:00 roughly to 9:30
http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/video_days_of_revolt_chris_hedges_detroit_actvists_20160126
JL 0513
Well-Known Member
Who controls the economy? We all "control" the economy by engaging in it. Would you prefer the government have full control of it? The American economy is so massive, no main entity controls it although government and increasing laws and regulations hinder it.
When/where in the history of mankind, have people had more than they do today and lived a better standard of living? Name a time and place you'd rather be.
In every conceivable product category, we have far more choices than ever. Houses have never been bigger and better. Cars are remarkable today. Technology has enhanced our lives in unbelievable ways. Tasks we had to waste so much time doing before are now done with machines leaving us able to do more valuable things with our time. I could go on for hours.
What is this "sustainable economy"? Sounds like an ideological phrase with no thought on what that might be or even means.
How do workers own and run the company they work for? How does that work? At UPS, is the package car driver also sitting in on the board of directors before getting on the road in the morning?
Sounds like freedom to you is living with no job, no responsibility, and somehow all of your needs are met.
You just described having a job as not being free. Really?
If most of the poor are on food stamps, how are they going hungry? Food stamp allowances are usually more than I pay for food. Funny how most of the poor are overweight in America.
There's no colluding going on. That's ludicrous. Automakers have been doing everything they can practically to advance fuel efficiency. After all, if your fuel efficiency sucks, you're not going to sell many cars. There's many brands competing on efficiency. If it was possible to say double MPG in internal combustion cars overnight don't you think a company would do it and sell tons of cars? Many hybrids have been brought to market, and only Toyota has pulled off strong sales although still fall way short of conventional cars. Consumer choice. Big automakers DO have electric cars. There's several and they just don't sell because electric cars are impractical. Why would you pay twice the price for a car and be dead on the side of the road after 90 miles? Tesla? You mean those cars that cost $100,000? Oh. Gasoline cars remain king because that's what we want. Trucks and SUV's are immensely popular because that's what we want. Plain and simple market forces. How's your electric car? Oh, you don't have one do you.
Babagounj
Strength through joy
Sorry , but I was attending a local gov't meeting during that time period .
You see I don't spend my day in someone else basement wishing for improvements .
newfie
Well-Known Member
you realize Chris Hedges is someone who is very successful and a contradiction to your point ?
hows that?
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no you dont. your under control too much to believe in doing anything democratic.
you dont even read do you?
no if people are on food stamps that means people dont have enough money to eat, and it also means there are people who havent been able to get on food stamps, and they are going hungry. i believe its 1/7 americans go hungry daily.
since you are so "free" and have an open mind, look up what ralph nader has to say on corporate crime, and price fixing. He says they are both rampant. and the government is underfunded to rectify either of them. he frequently talks about how markets actually work. including how alot of R and D in markets is done by government. Tesla, and alot of the government automakers are heavily subsidized and ran to the government for bailouts. none of the big guys actually believe in just markets. what they really believe in is profits by any means necessary. and markets are inefficient partly because they are based on imperfect information, and thats because information is complex, and also intentionally hidden quite often. the free market propagandists have distorted the words of adam smith. look up what chomsky says about markets and he will quote smith. and speaking of smith, markets turn into what happens in the matrix trilogy with smith consuming everything to the point that the environment is collapsed.
regarding being free and having a job, no i didnt. if you were a slave, but you had a job, would you be free? no.
likewise, taking orders from a capitalist in conditions that you the workers would never vote on if you could, doesnt mean your free in my books. renting your self to a capitalist is not freedom. and the fact that a huge proportion of our society is based on lies, should tell you that we are not free, and that the big lie is a sign of a totalitarian society, which the corporation is.
cooperatives is the emerging economy which is not government owned and not capitalist. the workers have a say in their workplace similar to being boards of directors.
here is a brief example:
UK Labor party's big change: less focus on state vs private enterprise, more on worker coops vs capitalist firms: http://bbc.in/1Vs2fqN
so if UPS was a coop, the workers might vote to fire managers they dont like, the workers might vote to not pay 1 person 1000x what the lowest paid worker makes, they might vote to have better sound systems in the car, or better maintained cars, etc. you might vote to work less hours per week to spend more time enjoying life, or vote to actually give yourself a raise higher than inflation LOL.
i think the economy should be a mix of state and private ownership. whatever works best in a particular situation.
id guess things were better for american workers in the 1960s then they are now. i can say with certainty they were better for american workers in the 1990s then now. alot of mislead people seem to think things are as good now as theyve ever been, but its not true, USA is in decline, and its hard not to see it with the great recession.
a sustainable economy would be one which doesnt cause climate change and actually brings pollutants down from where they are. capitalism is inefficient. how much do you use your private property as a % of the time? My books sit unused 99% of the time (I will be donating it to library soon), people's cars are used maybe a few hours every day, ditto for everything except maybe my computer which i use at most maybe 30% of the time. rental cars are much more efficient than individually owned cars, and public transit is more efficient than rental cars. the lunch room at my work (which is shared by all the workers) is much more efficient than my private kitchen.
and finally if i were to describe the american economy i would call it capitalist with government intervention. the economy is mix of different economies. there are cooperatives all over america right now. for example, take the family structure: its communal. the family doesnt charge itself for doing chores, or for meals, or for showers. if they operated a family like a market charging for everything, it would probably destroy some or all of the love in the family.
newfie
Well-Known Member
the guy is a successful capitalist , he's sold a lot of books , he's a media personality being paid to share his opinion. He has lots of money that he made due to his hard work attacking the system.
hes certainly not a media personality, alot of the for profit media banishes voices like chris.
but i agree he has benefited from the system he criticizes. but theres not really an alternative, unless he engages in a cooperative book distribution. not sure if it exists. anyways i would prefer someone criticize the system, then someone who just participates in a system which they have a problem with and say nothing.
will give you an idea about how the economy really works.
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