Integrity issues?

[Bubblehead]

LOL. Did you see all the "+1's" from other posters who were equally as ignorant of the facts as he is.

His statement was meant to sound good it was never meant to be supported by any facts or reality.

Guess I'm off ignore, whatever that meant.

 

[Bubblehead]

Yes, everyone....

If you are talking about Davis' incentives.....

80%+ of his compensation is in incentives. Deferred compensation. If stock doesn't grow its value is diminished. Same for other top management.

Grade 20's have about 1/2 of their compensation deferred. Above that, the % deferred is greater....

It is meant to be an incentive to make the stock grow and for the long term....

So... Scott is a CEO of a fortune 50 company. Last I looked, his compensation ranked somewhere around 500th in CEO compensation. Nowhere near his peers.

Now, drivers are the highest paid in the industry. I am not saying, nor have I ever said that they are overpaid or not worth it.

But to complain about top management who make much less than their counterparts is not reasonable.

Is $5M a lot of money. Yes. On the other hand, if a CEO and his team can raise the stock price $1, they have upped UPS' worth by $1 Billion. That's why they are paid so highly.

As I said, if the entire management committee made ZERO, the impact to everyone else's pay is negligible. Maybe $200 a year.

Never said this was only symptomatic to UPS.
They are all grossly overpaid.
I don't subscribe to the notion that it's OK because everybody else is doing it.
The entire good old boys club needs to be dismantled.
30 years ago the average CEO made 40 times that of the front line worker.
Today the average CEO make more than 400 times more than the front line worker.
What are they doing today to justify that kind of increase in compensation?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Guess I'm off ignore, whatever that meant.

When a member puts another on ignore that member cannot see any of the posts from the member(s) on their ignore list unless they click on "view post"; however, if another member quotes a post from any of the members on the ignore list both the post and the quoted post will be appear.

For example, I have rod and moreluck on ignore. I cannot see any of their posts unless I choose to, which I don't; however, if someone quotes either of them then I have no choice but to see what they posted.

In Tie's case, he very well may not have read your original post but when you were quoted in the +1's he was then able to read your post.

 

[upsgrunt]

Dave,
I guess I don't understand why you, even though subtly, have to keep bringing up who you have on ignore. What's the point?

Steve

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Never said this was only symptomatic to UPS.
They are all grossly overpaid.
I don't subscribe to the notion that it's OK because everybody else is doing it.
The entire good old boys club needs to be dismantled.

The disparity in compensation between hourlies and upper management is at it's highest point in history.

http://management.about.com/cs/generalmanagement/a/CEOsOverpaid.htm

Pay for Performance
According to Business Week, the average CEO of a major corporation made 42 times the average hourly worker's pay in 1980. By 1990 that had almost doubled to 85 times. In 2000, the average CEO salary reached an unbelievable 531 times that of the average hourly worker.

 

[Bubblehead]

When a member puts another on ignore that member cannot see any of the posts from the member(s) on their ignore list unless they click on "view post"; however, if another member quotes a post from any of the members on the ignore list both the post and the quoted post will be appear.

For example, I have rod and moreluck on ignore. I cannot see any of their posts unless I choose to, which I don't; however, if someone quotes either of them then I have no choice but to see what they posted.

In Tie's case, he very well may not have read your original post but when you were quoted in the +1's he was then able to read your post.

I understand that Dave, but thanks.
Was meant to be facetious.
Seems like kind of a goofy system to me.
I just use the mouse to ignore somebody.

 

[Bubblehead]

The disparity in compensation between hourlies and upper management is at it's highest point in history.

http://management.about.com/cs/generalmanagement/a/CEOsOverpaid.htm

Pay for Performance
According to Business Week, the average CEO of a major corporation made 42 times the average hourly worker's pay in 1980. By 1990 that had almost doubled to 85 times. In 2000, the average CEO salary reached an unbelievable 531 times that of the average hourly worker.

Do you hear that?
It's the huge sucking sound of upper management compensation that P-Man says doesn't exist.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Do you hear that?
It's the huge sucking sound of upper management compensation that P-Man says doesn't exist.

P-man is actually right. The disparity is much lower within UPS as opposed to other Fortune 500 companies, with much of upper management compensation deferred or linked to stock growth.

Our stock is up $2 over the past week. That is $2B in valuation.

 

[Bubblehead]

P-man is actually right. The disparity is much lower within UPS as opposed to other Fortune 500 companies, with much of upper management compensation deferred or linked to stock growth.

Our stock is up $2 over the past week. That is $2B in valuation.

Not so sure about that.
At UPS the front line worker is made up by a large percentage of part time employees.
This would inflate that percentage of CEO to front line worker, but point taken.
Ups isn't as bad as some other Fortune 500 companies.
Really though, is that much of a consolation?
I'm not a Socialist, but the way things are going...

 

[pretzel_man]

Do you hear that?
It's the huge sucking sound of upper management compensation that P-Man says doesn't exist.

I never said they didn't make a lot. I said that even if they made zero, it would be negligible to the average worker. That is still true.

I don't see the point in discussing how to dismantle the entire free market system.

 

[Catatonic]

I never said they didn't make a lot. I said that even if they made zero, it would be negligible to the average worker. That is still true.

I don't see the point in discussing how to dismantle the entire free market system.

I think he's a Marxist ... but then again, the people at the top of Communist Russia 'companies" had nice chalets and drivers and their kids went to "private" schools. I guess the people at the lower levels always get less.

 

[soberups]

I never said they didn't make a lot. I said that even if they made zero, it would be negligible to the average worker. That is still true.

I don't see the point in discussing how to dismantle the entire free market system.

Truthfully, I could care less how much UPS chooses to pay its its upper management people.

But if we are going to be giving these people huge raises, I'm not interested in hearing the company turn around and cry "poor" in 2013 when its time to negotiate a new contract for those of us who are out there doing the work.

 

[hubrat]

It doesn't matter how much we argue.
It's still stealing.
You don't take incentives from your employees to cut costs.
Oh, almost back to the op, are we?

 

[Bubblehead]

Truthfully, I could care less how much UPS chooses to pay its its upper management people.

But if we are going to be giving these people huge raises, I'm not interested in hearing the company turn around and cry "poor" in 2013 when its time to negotiate a new contract for those of us who are out there doing the work.

And now we have come full circle.
Well played Sir.

 

[CharleyHustle]

Customers are paying a premium price. We are no longer the low cost provider.

I'm not knocking management compensation here. But, how long has it been since we were the "low cost provider"? Is that a stated goal in a UPS master plan to be the "low cost Provider"? If we were the "low cost provider" would that guarentee higher management compensation? I think the answer is if management wants higher compensation they need to do abetter job managing the company.

 

[Catatonic]

I'm not knocking management compensation here. But, how long has it been since we were the "low cost provider"? Is that a stated goal in a UPS master plan to be the "low cost Provider"? If we were the "low cost provider" would that guarentee higher management compensation? I think the answer is if management wants higher compensation they need to do abetter job managing the company.

I'm not aware of UPS ever being the lost cost provider ... at least in the last 20 years. The only avenue for UPS to become the low-cost provider is to reduce the driver cost ... that is an unfortunate reality.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

I'm not aware of UPS ever being the lost cost provider ... at least in the last 20 years. The only avenue for UPS to become the low-cost provider is to reduce the driver cost ... that is an unfortunate reality.

eh?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I'm not aware of UPS ever being the lost cost provider ... at least in the last 20 years. The only avenue for UPS to become the low-cost provider is to reduce the driver cost ... that is an unfortunate reality.

eh?

Sleeve, he does make a valid point. This is why I do think that you will see a two-tiered wage system for drivers discussed in 2013. I don't know how much more cutting they can do at the mgt level. Yes, we do have record or near record profits, but who knows how long that will continue. I do think our turn comes in 2013.

 

[pretzel_man]

And now we have come full circle.
Well played Sir.

I guess I got lost along the way.... Where is the full circle? Its more of a runaway train.

This thread starts with an assertion that using emergency condition is an integrity issue in a specific case.

It then moves to a bashing of all UPS management. - No surprise, most threads do.

Then it turns to an assertion that "corporate greed" is the root of all evil. - A nice broadbrush statement which is challenged by some (me included).

To back up the assertion, many point out the compensation of UPS' most senior management. - Even though they are paid much less than their counterparts many decide its best to dismantle the free market system.

And, the full circle is to say that if the most senior management are compensated like this, don't say to drivers we can't afford what you want???

UPS drivers are the highest paid drivers in the industry. You deserve it. I have never said otherwise. When shareowners or managemnt want something, you throw the greed card?

Its no wonder that we are schitzophrenic. When you want to, you say we are overworked and underpaide. Then at a whim, we are sitting in the office with our feet up, leaving early and overpaid.

Explain the full circle?

 

[hubrat]

There will be a two-tiered system, no doubt. When all drivers at the top level are gone it will once again be one level. The lower one of course.
Drastic changes in the government may leave us with little leverage in 2013.

Pretzel, if UPS can purchase a turkey for 12.50 or less... That's stealing where I'm from. That is certainly an integrity issue.