Its simple

Ron Carey lives on

Well-Known Member
You are a taker smurf, no better than a wefare junkie. I see you a room by yourself listening to Glenn Beck surrounded by your cats. You have no sense of history or sacrifices that have been made for you. I can't believe I waste my time arguing with a gutless turd like you. I guess it is because I can't believe what a comlete hypocrite you are

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Atomic_Smurf

Well-Known Member
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Benben

Working on a new degree, Masters in BS Detecting!
Oh we have a live one here! Haven't seen anyone dumb enough to defend the ACA here for some time then here you are with your 2009 talking points. In case you missed it in the news millions of working class Americans have had their plans canceled as a result of healthcare reform only to be mandated to replace the plans they liked with something twice the price. Millions more have been forced into an inferior plan at an artificially inflated cost many of them union members. Gone are the days of providing something better for our families as the ACA insures that the fruits of our labor will be consumed collectively.

Wow, JUST WOW! please be wiping the brown off your nose from having it buried in a Koch ass!

The ACA did NOT cancel 1 plan!!! It mandated that insurance plans had to provide basic levels of coverage. Those that didn't either had to change or be canceled. That meant the door to door snake oil salesmen for plans out there had to provide for things like wellness care, yearly shots, yearly exams and life saving therapies (the same therapies considered "standards of care" for every doctor in the country) but the insurance whore/nurse employed BY the Insurance company deemed it "experimental" thus not covered. You see, people were paying insane amounts of money for their plans and were getting nothing in return while the insurance companies (and their stock holders) really liked pocketing 90+ percent of the premiums and having company "meetings" in places like Cozumel, Cancun or my favorite Italy, go Etna. Every month for years the AP would run a story about someone who died because their Insurance company denied a claim.

The millions and millions of people who could afford "these great plans" would not go to a family doctor because their yearly deductible was $10,000 before their insurance would then pay 50/50. Those millions of people would wait until they were so sick that their only option was to go to the ER. No ER in any state was allowed to turn away a patient due to lack of coverage. ER's became money pits for hospitals. To stay open hospitals then charged all of us $50 for an Advil.

Any of this ringing a bell in your head? I know you are dense but try and remember what it was like 6 years ago. And the plans were not twice the price no matter how much you wish they were to help support your horse:censored2:! I am so sick and tired of idiots like you who never bothered to actually read anything other than what the Koch's want you to see. Please get your hand out of your pants, grab the remote and change the channel off the FOX news channel. Do yourself a favor and stop listening to the druggie Rush (if my lips are moving I am lying) Limbaugh.
 

smapple

Well-Known Member
Wow, JUST WOW! please be wiping the brown off your nose from having it buried in a Koch ass!

The ACA did NOT cancel 1 plan!!! It mandated that insurance plans had to provide basic levels of coverage. Those that didn't either had to change or be canceled. That meant the door to door snake oil salesmen for plans out there had to provide for things like wellness care, yearly shots, yearly exams and life saving therapies (the same therapies considered "standards of care" for every doctor in the country) but the insurance whore/nurse employed BY the Insurance company deemed it "experimental" thus not covered. You see, people were paying insane amounts of money for their plans and were getting nothing in return while the insurance companies (and their stock holders) really liked pocketing 90+ percent of the premiums and having company "meetings" in places like Cozumel, Cancun or my favorite Italy, go Etna. Every month for years the AP would run a story about someone who died because their Insurance company denied a claim.

The millions and millions of people who could afford "these great plans" would not go to a family doctor because their yearly deductible was $10,000 before their insurance would then pay 50/50. Those millions of people would wait until they were so sick that their only option was to go to the ER. No ER in any state was allowed to turn away a patient due to lack of coverage. ER's became money pits for hospitals. To stay open hospitals then charged all of us $50 for an Advil.

Any of this ringing a bell in your head? I know you are dense but try and remember what it was like 6 years ago. And the plans were not twice the price no matter how much you wish they were to help support your horse:censored2:! I am so sick and tired of idiots like you who never bothered to actually read anything other than what the Koch's want you to see. Please get your hand out of your pants, grab the remote and change the channel off the FOX news channel. Do yourself a favor and stop listening to the druggie Rush (if my lips are moving I am lying) Limbaugh.

In other words we're idiots for buying low end health insurance that fit within our budgets ourselves, but having law that requires you have health insurance or pay fines and then go to jail if you don't pay the fines (because penalizing poor people who can't afford health insurance makes complete sense) is not being an idiot.
 

Benben

Working on a new degree, Masters in BS Detecting!
Poor people can afford health insurance now. I don't understand which part of the, "AFFORDABLE care act" you can't seem to comprehend.

Look at it this way. Idiots were going without insurance in the hope and prayer they wouldn't need it. Then BAM! they fell off a ladder or had a ruptured appendix. They go to the ER, get the care they needed then skated on their bill! Remember, state laws say no ER may turn away ANYBODY who needs care. The hospital can go after them for the bill but what are you hoping to get from someone who doesn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of? So the Hospital recoups those lost monies by charging you and me out the arse for everything! Hense the documented $50 advil pill!

So why are you mad at the very law that is designed to protect YOU AND ME from having to pay for the A-holes gambling by having no insurance?
 

smapple

Well-Known Member
Poor people can afford health insurance now. I don't understand which part of the, "AFFORDABLE care act" you can't seem to comprehend.

Look at it this way. Idiots were going without insurance in the hope and prayer they wouldn't need it. Then BAM! they fell off a ladder or had a ruptured appendix. They go to the ER, get the care they needed then skated on their bill! Remember, state laws say no ER may turn away ANYBODY who needs care. The hospital can go after them for the bill but what are you hoping to get from someone who doesn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of? So the Hospital recoups those lost monies by charging you and me out the arse for everything! Hense the documented $50 advil pill!

So why are you mad at the very law that is designed to protect YOU AND ME from having to pay for the A-holes gambling by having no insurance?

Not sure where you're getting that I'm mad at you or that the ACA was "designed to protect you and me", but whatevs.
I see I'm gonna have to spend some time educating you a bit on insurance, insurance companies, and why hospital costs are so high in the first place. Let's start with what insurance in the market is and is not.

Insurance is when a group of people pool resources together (i.e. money) to cover expenses for catastrophic events. The fact that most people are so greedy that they can't trust one another to do this is not the fault of anyone but themselves. What insurance is not is a middleman that everyone must have in order pay their medical bills. Having been poor all my life myself, my family and our friends, who were also poor, created our own insurance pools to help each other and ourselves. On more than one occasion, people in the pool tried to run away with the money.

It took this lesson for us to realize the importance of insurance companies because they are legal entities that can't run away with your money. But they don't cover everything, which makes sense. We learned this lesson also when more than 3 people in our original pool had to go to the hospital. Insurance companies will only cover a limit range of problems because it is mathematically impossible to stay financially viable while paying out money for every sickness under the sun. They don't just slap a random rate and say pay it because that's how much money we want. The rates are determined by what percentage of people get certain injuries on what jobs of which gender at what age etc., basically a cross indexed table of multiple variables that determine on average what percentage of people get what health problems aka the risk pool. Then that's factored in with how much it costs to be treated for what problems via how much hospitals charge on average for services by state, then you include fees/costs associated with running a company, see how big the pool is, look at what a specific customer wants in their plan and the fees/costs associated with it, and voila you have your rate. That is a far, far better way of calculating how to pay out the money because in my original pool there were multiple people who were injured more frequently for whatever reason (usually doing stupid crap like getting drunk) and ended up using over 500% of the money they put in, and it was very unfair that the rest of us who didn't get injured by living boring lives and staying safe to use less than 5% of the money we had put in. Our options were to grow the pool and introduce more risk of people trying to run with the money, or make an LLC insurance company, or just give back the money to buy an existing insurance plan from an existing company. We tried to make an LLC but gave up pretty quick on discovering the associated legal fees and documents. But we couldn't afford it because the rates were so high. Why were they so high? Because hospitals charge huge sums of money for services.

Why are hospitals so expensive? Basically 4 factors: doctors and staff, drugs, frivolous lawsuits, and, as you said, the ER. There're a lot more factors but I listed those because they were immediately identifiable. I won't get into the first 2 because that would take too long. Suffice to say there's a shortage of doctors for some obvious reasons (education) and some not so obvious reasons (American Medical Association) and big pharma and frivolous lawsuits are entire threads of their own. Here's the lowdown on the ER bankrupting hospitals. That only happens in densely populated areas. And the ACA isn't going to fix having to pay $50 for an Advil in the hospital. All it'll do is have the tax payer pay for it instead of you yourself. Here's the kicker: you're the tax payer. And if you're okay with hospitals charging $50 for Advil then not sure why you're complaining. On the other hand, if you really wanted this problem addressed then let's address it instead of believing this bullock that the ACA somehow fixed this god awful situation. Also, to reduce the hospital costs you would have to fix at least the other 3 problems I listed, so the short and long of it is the ACA isn't helping with hospital costs and instead of paying the bill directly, you are now paying it through taxes minus whatever the bureaucracy is taking for themselves.

Everyone wanted health care reform, and one way of doing that was to have reform that would incentive more people to become doctors. That way hospitals could lower costs and be more localized at the same time. And obviously you haven't read the legislation because it won't be affordable within the next 10 years with the projected costs. Here's how you lower personal health costs: live healthy i.e. eat right, exercise, sleep well, have a healthy mind and healthy heart. If more people did that, less people go to the hospital and ER costs would go down. There's a lot more I could say about this but I get the feeling it wouldn't do any good and I'd probably get more nods in agreement than seriously change anyone's mind. I would simply encourage you to stop following talking points, think for yourself, and actually do your own research. And no, reading news articles and press releases is not research. You're talking about the intersection of health and economics and I seriously doubt you have a grasp of the ladder.

sources: I used to sell health and life insurance
 

realbrown1

Annoy a liberal today. Hit them with facts.
Poor people can afford health insurance now. I don't understand which part of the, "AFFORDABLE care act" you can't seem to comprehend.

Look at it this way. Idiots were going without insurance in the hope and prayer they wouldn't need it. Then BAM! they fell off a ladder or had a ruptured appendix. They go to the ER, get the care they needed then skated on their bill! Remember, state laws say no ER may turn away ANYBODY who needs care. The hospital can go after them for the bill but what are you hoping to get from someone who doesn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of? So the Hospital recoups those lost monies by charging you and me out the arse for everything! Hense the documented $50 advil pill!

So why are you mad at the very law that is designed to protect YOU AND ME from having to pay for the A-holes gambling by having no insurance?
Maybe because now we all pay higher premiums for health care than before.
The poor are going to get free or near free emergency medical care no matter what. Now they just make everyone with health insurance pay for it. Before it was the hospitals, then the hospitals recouped the cost through higher fees.
They are both bad ways to do things.
 
Maybe because now we all pay higher premiums for health care than before.
The poor are going to get free or near free emergency medical care no matter what. Now they just make everyone with health insurance pay for it. Before it was the hospitals, then the hospitals recouped the cost through higher fees.
They are both bad ways to do things.
The hospitals recouped their cost by charging everyone with insurance outrageous fees. $50.00 aspirin, $100.00 band aide. Now with everyone required to have a minimum level of health insurance we are already seeing increases stabilizing.
 

realbrown1

Annoy a liberal today. Hit them with facts.
The hospitals recouped their cost by charging everyone with insurance outrageous fees. $50.00 aspirin, $100.00 band aide. Now with everyone required to have a minimum level of health insurance we are already seeing increases stabilizing.
You are deluding yourself if you believe that. The ACA is a bad law and a bad deal.
 

Atomic_Smurf

Well-Known Member
The hospitals recouped their cost by charging everyone with insurance outrageous fees. $50.00 aspirin, $100.00 band aide. Now with everyone required to have a minimum level of health insurance we are already seeing increases stabilizing.
Is that what were seeing? Increases stabilizing after insurance premiums double?
 

Atomic_Smurf

Well-Known Member
The vast majority of newly insured Americans aren't paying for it now anymore than they they were when they were called "free-riders" by those pushing for healthcare reform. We are. Its why employers & individuals are paying higher premiums for plans that aren't as good as they had before. "ObamaCare approved" simply means your plan has been artificially inflated to pay for someone else's subsidy.
 

10 point

Well-Known Member
My Dad owned two pharmacies. I know about profitability in the pharmaceutical field. He also took care of a Hospital pharmacy at the same time.

The drugs dispensed in the hospital were sold at approximately ten times the Rx retail pricing and that was in the 80's as seen on my brother's hospital bill years ago.

It's great that there's abundant profitability in the medical profession because we can pay pretty smart people to develope much needed pharmaceuticals but the system seemingly is becoming somewhat self serving compared to when I was growing up.
 

Atomic_Smurf

Well-Known Member
My Dad owned two pharmacies. I know about profitability in the pharmaceutical field. He also took care of a Hospital pharmacy at the same time.

The drugs dispensed in the hospital were sold at approximately ten times the Rx retail pricing and that was in the 80's as seen on my brother's hospital bill years ago.

It's great that there's abundant profitability in the medical profession because we can pay pretty smart people to develope much needed pharmaceuticals but the system seemingly is becoming somewhat self serving compared to when I was growing up.
Our healthcare system has now been reformed to serve Washington.
 
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