listen up UPS, Teamster we are people!!!

upswife75

Well-Known Member
When did I say I don't realize? You people need to learn how to read, so what happens if I bust my knee outside of work before the year. Tough sh-t. I can't work and no days of since I haven't been there a year and I will end up paying so who wins? UPS couldn't care less I have no personal or sick days I can use.

Do you realize that only 16% of employers overall offer health insurance to part time employees? That number increases to 42% among large employers, like UPS. That puts you in the lucky minority to ever have health insurance AT ALL (not just after a waiting period). So, by all means, go work part time for a company like Walmart, just don't expect to get health insurance, even after a year of working there.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
ahh yes thats right speak to him from your mountain top,i mean after all your a PACKAGE CAR DRIVER.it is a part time job and they should not make what a full time person makes in total yearly salary but the gap in hourly pay has grown to insane preporations.p/t hub or preload starts at 8.5 the same pay as when i started 14 years ago,the minimum wage then was like 5.75 at that time, in my state its like 7.70 that means ups p/t only start at .80 cents above minimum,thats crazy.friend/t p/c driver at top rate $32/hr,p/t inside guy starts at $8.50/hr thats almost 4 times what the p/t guy makes.upstate have you ever worked inside the hub or were you just handed your friend/t p/c job like a lot of other guys in the 80's.if you were hired off the street than you have no idea what its like to chase the carrot at ups and break your back in the building for crap money and no hours.you p/c drivers think your the only ones who work hard at ups and you woundnt last a week inside,i see it all the time p/c driver takes combo job cause he thinks its a free lunch in here and then pass's on the job cause he cant handle it.as fulltimers we should all be a little more concerned with p/t wages and treatment because as people like upstate laff at it ups is slowly backdooring the union out of here through the quality of p/t contract.

Dip****, I am talking about the 46 hours I worked doing construction during the strike. I busted my ass for the grand total of $253. When I was younger I worked in a Christmas bulb factory, which was basically a sweat shop, for minimum wage.
 

CAFAL

Well-Known Member
ahh yes thats right speak to him from your mountain top,i mean after all your a PACKAGE CAR DRIVER.it is a part time job and they should not make what a full time person makes in total yearly salary but the gap in hourly pay has grown to insane preporations.p/t hub or preload starts at 8.5 the same pay as when i started 14 years ago,the minimum wage then was like 5.75 at that time, in my state its like 7.70 that means ups p/t only start at .80 cents above minimum,thats crazy.friend/t p/c driver at top rate $32/hr,p/t inside guy starts at $8.50/hr thats almost 4 times what the p/t guy makes.upstate have you ever worked inside the hub or were you just handed your friend/t p/c job like a lot of other guys in the 80's.if you were hired off the street than you have no idea what its like to chase the carrot at ups and break your back in the building for crap money and no hours.you p/c drivers think your the only ones who work hard at ups and you woundnt last a week inside,i see it all the time p/c driver takes combo job cause he thinks its a free lunch in here and then pass's on the job cause he cant handle it.as fulltimers we should all be a little more concerned with p/t wages and treatment because as people like upstate laff at it ups is slowly backdooring the union out of here through the quality of p/t contract.

Ever think the union is also backdooring ptmers? They need the pension revenue from fulltimers. Part timers will always get the shaft because of the union leaders
 

22.34life

Well-Known Member
22.34, did you really just try to show the pay gap between p/t and friend/t by showing the starting rate for a part timer and the top rate for a full timer? Don't you think that is a little bit silly?

Flipstyle, My husband worked part time for 5.5 years before finally going full time. During that time he went from being a seasonal hire, being asked to stay on because he busted his ass, worked his way though everything inside, became the union steward for the part timers, worked split shifts more times than I can count, did his time as a Saturday driver and a peak driver, all before finally getting to go full time. During his part time years, his pay increased many times and our entire family had damn good health care coverage that most part time employees would have given their left arm for. And ya know what he did when it wasn't enough to pay the bills? He got a second job because honestly, who expects to be able to pay all their bills while working 3-4 hours a day? If you honestly think that you should be making above poverty level while working 3-4 hours a day, you are seriously deluded! Starting out at $8.50 an hour for a job that requires no special education is pretty damn good, especially when you factor in the regular pay increases and the fact that there are other ways that you can get increases through the company, such as becoming hazmat certified. It isn't the fault of the full timers that you want to work less than half a work day and make enough to pay the bills. Package car drivers, for the record, bust their asses all day long. If you think they don't earn the pay they make, you are sorely mistaken. How many times, while working at your feeders, have you had a dog charge you out of nowhere and had it clamp down on your leg, digging its teeth into your flesh? How many times have you had a wild boar chase your ass for a 1/4 of a mile while working your part time job? Yes, part timers work hard, but that doesn't mean that the full timers don't work just as hard, sometimes under more hazardous conditions than you will likely ever experience in the safety of your warehouse. So please, stop putting down one group just to make your group seem more important. Most of those full timers were at one time right where you are now.
point of fact i am full time and i do work 8 hours a day for ups and no i have never been biten by a dog or chased by a wild boar in the "SAFETY" of my warehouse which is the farthest thing from safe.heres the real problem,the p/t system is a joke and should be trashed,$150/week isnt enough to live on for ANYONE anymore and that includes students which none of these guys in the hub are anyway anymore.you see upswife there was a time when you had to be a real college student to get a job at ups and it worked because the starting pay was way above minimum wage so it didnt matter that you only got 20/hrs a week so if minimum wage was 4.50 and ups paid 8 that meant you would have to work 40 hours flipping burgers to make what ups paid for 20 and you got medical for you and your dependents,pretty good deal huh.now fast foward 15 years and minimum wage is 7.70 and ups starts at 8.5 that means that burger flipping job looks not so bad now and its easy, no back breaking labor.p/t newhires now 1 year before benifits and 18 months to add dependents,now that whataburger job looks real good.their was also a time when you pretty much knew that if you tuffed it out that you would be fulltime one day maybe in 3-5 years,now you will be lucky to get friend/t in ten,no new 22.3 jobs and new p/c jobs are seen less and less.this is why the people at ups inside now are trash,theft is out of controll and the work environment borders on prison.NOBODY wants this job anymore,i talk to the hr guy all the time and he tells me he cant get people to stay and has to turn people away all the time because they are felons.you see upswife this is what ups wants a revolving door of p/t newhires.as the right to work states begin to outnumber the closed shops and the new are dumped on to favor the old, ups gains a foothold in the fact that soon p/t non union members will outnumber the teamsters and with the technology in the new diads gps, turn by turn nav.,and the pal system, drivers will be easly replaced and when that happens "CHECKMATE".
 

22.34life

Well-Known Member
Dip****, I am talking about the 46 hours I worked doing construction during the strike. I busted my ass for the grand total of $253. When I was younger I worked in a Christmas bulb factory, which was basically a sweat shop, for minimum wage.
$253 was not bad money in 1997,im curious was that bulb factory a billion dollar worldwide corporation.what was your starting pay when you were hired in p/t at ups?you like to use that phrase busting your ass do you think your the only person that works hard or something.
 

22.34life

Well-Known Member
You don't think the largest reason that there aren't more PT to FT conversions is the $42 billion in revenue a non union company (FDX) pulled in the last fiscal year? We are competing against a non union company that pays it's delivery workforce far less then what we pay our drivers.
so we should go down instead of them coming up,why isnt the question why dont fedx drivers make what ups guys make.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
so we should go down instead of them coming up,why isnt the question why dont fedx drivers make what ups guys make.

That is a good question, and one that should be asked. I will give you one part of the answer. Because the Teamsters have chosen to put more of their resources toward organizing more units of SCS than toward a national campaign to organize the FDX drivers.
 

flipstyle9

Well-Known Member
When did I say I don't realize? You people need to learn how to read, so what happens if I bust my knee outside of work before the year. Tough sh-t. I can't work and no days of since I haven't been there a year and I will end up paying so who wins? UPS couldn't care less I have no personal or sick days I can use.

Do you realize that only 16% of employers overall offer health insurance to part time employees? That number increases to 42% among large employers, like UPS. That puts you in the lucky minority to ever have health insurance AT ALL (not just after a waiting period). So, by all means, go work part time for a company like Walmart, just don't expect to get health insurance, even after a year of working there.

Like how everyone uses wal-mart like it's the only company, news fact. Larger companies tend to be the most greedy
 

Brownslave688

You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
It's like no one understands almost all of us drivers when through the same grind at one point. At one point I left for work at an emergency brake factory at 3pm and returned home from preload at 8:30-9am Everything In between there was work. I slept all weekend and my wife left for school in the morning before I got home and I left before she got home in the evening. We don't feel sorry for u because we have all been there and we didn't feel sorry for ourselves that's why we r where we r.
 

boxjockey

Member
a box in the hand equals a part timer. wins again

Ups has forgot the bread an butter of the business. Ground packages just like most the work force. Part time staff. Look inside at the work ethics now of all building personal. We all told numbers is all that matters. Everyone should at one time start out as part time. The locals don't have to worry about the bread or the bitter sweet butter
 

22.34life

Well-Known Member
It's like no one understands almost all of us drivers when through the same grind at one point. At one point I left for work at an emergency brake factory at 3pm and returned home from preload at 8:30-9am Everything In between there was work. I slept all weekend and my wife left for school in the morning before I got home and I left before she got home in the evening. We don't feel sorry for u because we have all been there and we didn't feel sorry for ourselves that's why we r where we r.
every friend/t person at ups has gone through the same things you describe in your post,i too worked two jobs when i had too and double shifted when ever i could.i dont feel sorry for anyone either but let me ask you something,what kept you holding on at ups during that time?for me it was because i knew that in a few years i would have a fulltime job at ups and the benifits i had were great,i had a young son and wife.my point is i could see the light at the end of the tunnel,the carrot at that time was catchable and within reach.now p/t guys cant see the light and dont even know theirs a carrot to chase.as upsers who have been here for many years we lose touch with how different things are now for the p/t guy with 1-3 years of senority.
 

upswife75

Well-Known Member
the p/t system is a joke and should be trashed,$150/week isnt enough to live on for ANYONE anymore

Part time isn't meant to be enough to live on, which is exactly my point!!

minimum wage is 7.70 and ups starts at 8.5 that means that burger flipping job looks not so bad now and its easy, no back breaking labor.p/t newhires now 1 year before benifits and 18 months to add dependents,now that whataburger job looks real good


Actually, the federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr, not $7.70, wiith different states having their own minimum wage guidelines. That burger flipping job only looks good if you are only looking for a job with next to no room for advancement and very few pay raises. Please show me a burger flipper that is getting paid $32/hour and I'll show you a purple polka dotted unicorn married to a yeti!
If you honestly think you will get better pay and benefits working for Whataburger, you are sadly mistaken. The average team member makes $7.72/hr, cashier $7.71, team leader $8.32, general manager salary $52,500/yr and manager $39,875/yr. As for benefits, don't these just look awesome?!?!

Whataburger - Whataburger | Restaurant, Home and Field Office Careers

Oooh, team members get discounts on meals and a limited medical plan (which they can use after taking advantage of the discounted meals
:thumbsup:) and team LEADERS will get traditional PPOs or High Deductible Health Plans. That sounds soooo much better than sticking it out at UPS for a while. Oh, and that is only for full time employees! Great deal, sign me up! I'll tell my husband how stupid he was to do his time as a part timer at UPS so he could become a driver when he would be so much happier working at Whataburger. I'm sure my 17 year old wouldn't mind forgoing engineering school so daddy doesn't have to work hard to get somewhere in life.

 

CAFAL

Well-Known Member
every friend/t person at ups has gone through the same things you describe in your post,i too worked two jobs when i had too and double shifted when ever i could.i dont feel sorry for anyone either but let me ask you something,what kept you holding on at ups during that time?for me it was because i knew that in a few years i would have a fulltime job at ups and the benifits i had were great,i had a young son and wife.my point is i could see the light at the end of the tunnel,the carrot at that time was catchable and within reach.now p/t guys cant see the light and dont even know theirs a carrot to chase.as upsers who have been here for many years we lose touch with how different things are now for the p/t guy with 1-3 years of senority.

It may take longer to get full time now. Aside from that it's much easier. Loaders have pas. New drivers have edd. There are no ten year old charts to look at to load. There is no here's the keys here's a board. When I started driving there was no cover seniority. If you said you couldn't work sat,you would get maybe two days during the week. If you didn't scratch,they would find somebody who would. These days guys just wait for their turn,then are trained.
All crybabies with no clue. Me me me. Ptmers aren't hungry anymore and are more expendable.
 

Justaname

Well-Known Member
It may take longer to get full time now. Aside from that it's much easier. Loaders have pas. New drivers have edd. There are no ten year old charts to look at to load. There is no here's the keys here's a board. When I started driving there was no cover seniority. If you said you couldn't work sat,you would get maybe two days during the week. If you didn't scratch,they would find somebody who would. These days guys just wait for their turn,then are trained.
All crybabies with no clue. Me me me. Ptmers aren't hungry anymore and are more expendable.
Really? Every person that I've met that has Preloaded with charts and pas says it was easier with the chart. Do you really believe ups intended for the job to be easier? Maybe at first, but it was only created to produce better production. Which means heavier routes and more routes. I haven never loaded with charts so my opinion only goes so far. For the preloaders that have done both(from what I've heard) it was easier back in the day.
 

PobreCarlos

Well-Known Member
Justaname;

If you had the charts memorized, maybe. But that's a big "if"......and as "CAFAL" implied, the charts (usually of the handwritten variety) tended to be woefully out-of-date and next to useless if you were new to the loads. Not only that, they often had only a vague indication of what series of addresses went on what shelf, with no sequential numbering order to them of any kind, nor a guide encompassing all the possible addresses either, for that matter. It was a "skilled" occupation then, in that it was almost totally memory and learned experience, with little in the way of paper to guide you. I'd suggest that those who say it was "easier" - at least to start - are joshing, or are forgetting about the steep learning curve it took to get up to speed back then.
 

menotyou

bella amicizia
Really? Every person that I've met that has Preloaded with charts and pas says it was easier with the chart. Do you really believe ups intended for the job to be easier? Maybe at first, but it was only created to produce better production. Which means heavier routes and more routes. I haven never loaded with charts so my opinion only goes so far. For the preloaders that have done both(from what I've heard) it was easier back in the day.
It was easier with the charts because your dispatch didn't change. As far as the charts being hand written as ASSSanta says, they weren't at my center. They were well written and color coded.
 

PobreCarlos

Well-Known Member
mentoyou;

Yeah, the "dispatch didn't change". And the charts were all "well-written and "color coded" as well. Right!!! [smile]

Maybe that was the case in YOUR center...but, even there, I suspect you had to come rather "late to the game", so to speak, to have that type of experience. And if you would make a claim like "your dispatch didn't change", you apparently weren't even IN the game all that long.

People seem to forget that when the company started to move away from driver sort 'n' loads, and use a preload operation, the charts were rudimentary at best; i.e. - "Main St. of town XXX in Sec. 3A, all other streets 3B and 3C" and such. There wasn't any "color coding". Nor was there any written indication of how to adjust the load if dispatch changes WERE made...and they were made all the time. In truth, to be a decent preloader, one had to know virtually as much about the routes being loaded as the drivers themselves.

Later - much later - when sequential dispatch came into play, and addresses actually had sequence numbers assigned to them, it became a little more refined. But even then it took a lot more "skill" (read experience) than it does today...and that was especially true when it came to loading "new" cars. Not saying it's easy now, but it was a real bear "way back when".
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
The skill set required to be a preloader has changed. The mental part of the job has been reduced to select/read/load. The physical part has been greatly enhanced. Production expectations have never been higher yet the compensation remains the same.
 

PobreCarlos

Well-Known Member
Upstate;

No real disagreement there. Of course, in terms of compensation, SEVERAL things have changed. When I first hired-in, for example, you had to certify that you were in school, and - at the demand of the union - had to come up with yearly school-provided documentation to back it up if you wanted to be hired AND REMAIN a p/t'er. Wages were relatively high, but there were absolutely NO benefits, other than a few holidays. Nor was there any commitment by the company to hire any particular percentage of P/T'ers as full-timers, although if they were good workers and seemed suited to the job, they were obviously given priority.

Then came the EEOC (or some other regulatory body), which determined that it was discriminatory to hire only students....at which point P/T became more a "full-time part-time" job than anything else. Before, it was rare that a p/ter hung around more than 3 or 4 years...and the jobs were literally "passed down" from one student to the next. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I can remember one extended center where the p/t jobs were virtually monopolized by the students of the optometry department of the local university. All of that went by the wayside. After the student requirement was done away with, p/t'er weren't as often waiting out their degree; they were just as likely situating themselves for the long-haul at UPS.

Then, as p/t'er became to represent a significant LONG TERM aspect of the work force (a situation which the Teamsters didn't like either), there came the push for greater benefits and "security". I was in management by the time the first (rather lean) p/t pension was authorized in the '70s, and I honestly don't remember when health benefits came online. Granted, the wages went up for a while, but with the onslaught of all the benefits - and particularly with THE VIRTUAL GUARANTEE OF A FULL TIME JOB if one hung around long enough - the job changed, it's potential changed, and the wages reflected that change. People no longer hire in at UPS as p/t'er primarily as a means of making some change before they graduate and move on to their lifetime career; nope...now they're coming aboard in reaction to the carrot dangled in front of them of an eventual full-time job. Of course, this also came at a time in which the company was splitting hub shifts in order to do away with friend/t hub jobs.

Overall, I think the change has been for the worst. I fully realize that others - particularly those who've benefited by the change - think it's the greatest thing going since fish sticks. To each his own. My point, however, is that compensation has changed in reaction to what the p/t'ers THEMSELVES set as their priorities.
 
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