Part-tme sup position eliminated after 10 years!

[sdf6hr2]

where are all the mgmt. apologists? i expected to see all the "tough ***king luck" posts like when a union member is laid off/ displaced/ out-sourced/ made an example of/ etc. they are, so far, noticably quiet.

 

[Catatonic]

where are all the mgmt. apologists? i expected to see all the "tough ***king luck" posts like when a union member is laid off/ displaced/ out-sourced/ made an example of/ etc. they are, so far, noticably quiet.

I guess no hateful, bitter jerks have found this thread ... until now.

OK - sleeve did give it a good try.

 

[Red Rose Tea]

Would like to know if ADEA would cover the following scenario: In an office of 6 people - if they layoff 1 employee - a 55 yr old employee who has 25 yrs with the company and the experience to do every office task; and decide to keep the 32 yr old employee with 10 yrs with the company; is this something ADEA would consider as age discrimination?

The Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 (ADEA) protects certain applicants and employees 40 years of age and older from discrimination on the basis of age in hiring, promotion, discharge, compensation, or terms, conditions or privileges of employment.

 

[pretzel_man]

Would like to know if ADEA would cover the following scenario: In an office of 6 people - if they layoff 1 employee - a 55 yr old employee who has 25 yrs with the company and the experience to do every office task; and decide to keep the 32 yr old employee with 10 yrs with the company; is this something ADEA would consider as age discrimination?

As with most things, the answer is "it depends".

ADEA says you cannot discriminate because of age. It also says that its okay to let someone go if "differentiation is based on reasonable factors other than age".

Did this person's job get cut? Is this person the poorest performer (and the performance difference is not due to age).

That being said, organizations are wary about letting someone go who is older, female, or a minority due to the probability of a lawsuit.

I believe the burdon of proof falls on the company to show that those factors did not play into the termination.

P-Man

 

[pickup]

As with most things, the answer is "it depends".

ADEA says you cannot discriminate because of age. It also says that its okay to let someone go if "differentiation is based on reasonable factors other than age".

Did this person's job get cut? Is this person the poorest performer (and the performance difference is not due to age).

That being said, organizations are wary about letting someone go who is older, female, or a minority due to the probability of a lawsuit.

I believe the burdon of proof falls on the company to show that those factors did not play into the termination.

P-Man

I Know of someone who won an adea termination lawsuit. The company that fired him said that he was a poor performer. However, his performance evaluations for the years previous to his termination were superb and he was a salesmanager and sales under his tenure went up (performance criterion). His job tasks were given to a younger employee even though his job was also technically eliminated. The judge found in favor of the terminated employee. I think he was entitled to back wages and punitive damages and his job back. He took the wages and damages but declined the job. This company now makes sure to give all of its employees negative performance reviews and makes sure that those targeted for termination get writeups on every little infraction(real and perceived) months in advance of the firing.

 

[stevetheupsguy]

I Know of someone who won an adea termination lawsuit. The company that fired him said that he was a poor performer. However, his performance evaluations for the years previous to his termination were superb and he was a salesmanager and sales under his tenure went up (performance criterion). His job tasks were given to a younger employee even though his job was also technically eliminated. The judge found in favor of the terminated employee. I think he was entitled to back wages and punitive damages and his job back. He took the wages and damages but declined the job. This company now makes sure to give all of its employees negative performance reviews and makes sure that those targeted for termination get writeups on every little infraction(real and perceived) months in advance of the firing.

And the company, wasn't UPS?

 

[pickup]

And the company, wasn't UPS?

Steve at the end of my post ,one above yours, I wanted to add - Sound familiar? But something held me back, I don't know what. Maybe I didn't want to get people riled up on a peaceful memorial day weekend. The company that was mentioned in that post is not UPS and was something of a mom and pop operation in terms of how it handled its affairs and got caught with its pants down for firing an employee in the manner that it did and learned from its mistake.

 

[stevetheupsguy]

Steve at the end of my post ,one above yours, I wanted to add - Sound familiar? But something held me back, I don't know what. Maybe I didn't want to get people riled up on a peaceful memorial day weekend. The company that was mentioned in that post is not UPS and was something of a mom and pop operation in terms of how it handled its affairs and got caught with its pants down for firing an employee in the manner that it did and learned from its mistake.

It's unfortunate, exactly what they learned, is what I'm saying.

 

[pickup]

It's unfortunate, exactly what they learned, is what I'm saying.

I agree with you , 100%.

 

[stevetheupsguy]

I agree with you , 100%.

Good, now go to sleep.....I have a race in the morning and need my rest!

 

[pickup]

Good, now go to sleep.....I have a race in the morning and need my rest!

I'm still on feeders hours, aint going to bed until it (the tired feeling ) hits me like a ton of bricks. Have a good race and we don't want to see any new threads about you hurting your neck as a result of your 5-k race or half marathon

 

[stevetheupsguy]

I'm still on feeders hours, aint going to bed until it (the tired feeling ) hits me like a ton of bricks. Have a good race and we don't want to see any new threads about you hurting your neck as a result of your 5-k race or half marathon

Nah, must've slept wrong, on the neck thing. I'll let you know how I do. It's a 5k.

 

[Red Rose Tea]

This has not happened yet. Its just a what if question. To clarify, the older employee with 25 yrs service is female, she is one of the best performers, able to perform all tasks - per her evaluations and personal discussions with higher ups. The younger employee with less time with the company, has a reputation as being a slacker, lacks initiative etc. However, has always been protected.

 

[Red Rose Tea]

One other thing, no jobs have been cut yet. The older and younger employees are equal in rank, although the older one is far more experienced, reliable and consistent.

 

[Catatonic]

One other thing, no jobs have been cut yet. The older and younger employees are equal in rank, although the older one is far more experienced, reliable and consistent.

Hopefully they hold off for a year and 3 months for your sake.

 

[Red Rose Tea]

Why a year and 3 months?

 

[Catatonic]

Why a year and 3 months?

You'll be eligible for retirement then or maybe I was mistaken ... would not be the first time.

 

[filthpig]

Like I told a supe of mine not too long ago when he made some remark about "people losing their jobs " due to the economy: You'll lose your job a damn site before I lose mine.

 

[storm4]

When non-union management employees are with us for 10-years, do they reach a higher level on the retirement benefits plan? Didn’t they start just prior to the elimination of the early retirement with health benefit option?

Does termination eliminate all of this? We have seen many demoted or pushed out right around the 10-year mark the last couple of years and perhaps it is not coincidental at all.

The bottom line might just be that these employees are more expensive than those that started after, even when the newcomer negotiated a higher starting salary.

Perhaps this also explains why so many long-term employees have been written up as poor performers recently, despite their ongoing commitment and contribution to the company.

 

[Catatonic]

When non-union management employees are with us for 10-years, do they reach a higher level on the retirement benefits plan? Didn’t they start just prior to the elimination of the early retirement with health benefit option?

Does termination eliminate all of this? We have seen many demoted or pushed out right around the 10-year mark the last couple of years and perhaps it is not coincidental at all.

The bottom line might just be that these employees are more expensive than those that started after, even when the newcomer negotiated a higher starting salary.

Perhaps this also explains why so many long-term employees have been written up as poor performers recently, despite their ongoing commitment and contribution to the company.

While this has a certain logic to it, the Cost Accounting measurement does not change at 9 years versus 11 years. And a 10 yr employee is much more productive that a new hire.
Does not pass the "common sense" litmus test but these days one is never sure.