Production termination!

[BrownSuit]

My god. Does it really matter where the supervisor was from? The methods work no matter where the supervisor is from and are not route dependent.

Supervisors get shoved on assignments all the time.

Anything else?

Actually, I think it does. Red and other's point here was that the Center Manager and Management team were gunning for the driver's job because of his union involvement, not because of production numbers.

We've tossed around the production numbers and most in the last page or two have agreed that to be consistently missing that much SPOHR something was seriously wrong or the SPOHR was set wrong in part because the center was gunning for him. We've also found out the driver is running the same SPOHR as over two years ago, despite improvements in route management PAS/EDD, and the likelihood that the route has become denser during that time.

So the only thing left is that they really were gunning for him. Well by bringing somebody in from another Center, that likely doesn't know the guy and could care less one way or another, it is impartial. The chances are getting smaller that s/he would have been "tainted" by management out to "get the guy" because of his union involvement.

So basically we are left with the same question, what is really going on here?

It's not production, that's for sure, the numbers should be up at least slightly from over two years ago, and the fact that the Sup was from another center, takes away the likelihood they wanted this guy canned. He should have been fairly impartial since he likely didn't know the guy and didn't have to deal with the center manager.

Do we know how many days he was down by 3? It sounded like it had become a regular occurrence.

 

[local804]

My god. Does it really matter where the supervisor was from? The methods work no matter where the supervisor is from and are not route dependent.

Supervisors get shoved on assignments all the time.

Anything else?

His first ojs with his center supervisor he averaged 12 stops an hour. The outside supervisor on his next ojs less than a year later was an average of 14.5 stops. The center manager was on the record saying he didnt have confidence in his center team thats why he opted to go outside the center. I guess you method theory makes you look a bit foolish.

The ojs numbers on his new ojs ranged from 11.3 to 15.9, thats a 4.6 sph gap.

It is what it is.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I heard that the supervisor that performed the ojs wasnt even from his center. Why would they bring in another supervisor to perform an ojs? I also heard that there was 2 other drivers delivering part of his load the days of the ojs.

I would see this as an effort to make sure that the supervisor conducting the OJS had no prejudices or preconceptions about the driver in question and was there to make an honest, objective assessment of his performance.

The sup that performed the OJS was not from that center but brought in the week before to get the area knowledge while the terminated driver was on vacation.

This also makes sense as it gives the supervisor conducting the OJS a solid basis upon which to perform his assessment. I am just curious, however, as to why the cover driver did not think to let the regular know what was going on.

My god. Does it really matter where the supervisor was from? The methods work no matter where the supervisor is from and are not route dependent.

NE, the methods were established for use in all delivery situations, whether rural or urban, residential or commercial; however, having run both, I will tell you from experience that if I followed the methods that I used when on my country run on my current city run I would probably run at least an hour slower than I do; conversely, if I tried using the delivery methods that I use on my city run out in the country I would receive a lot of grief. For example, let's say you are at a pickup out in the country and they ask you to wait 10 minutes and you wouldn't be anywhere near here for the rest of the day. What do you do? You go out and sort you load or take part of your lunch/break and you wait. In the city, what do you do? You come back later, if you can or, more likely, tell them that you have to go and you will be back the following day. There are many more examples of where the methods differ depending on the route but the bottom line is that, yes, the methods are route dependent.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

His first ojs with his center supervisor he averaged 12 stops an hour. The outside supervisor on his next ojs less than a year later was an average of 14.5 stops. The center manager was on the record saying he didnt have confidence in his center team thats why he opted to go outside the center. I guess you method theory makes you look a bit foolish.

The ojs numbers on his new ojs ranged from 11.3 to 15.9, thats a 4.6 sph gap.

It is what it is.

There may have been any number of factors which resulted in the nearly 2.5 SPORH difference between his initial and follow-up OJS rides. Perhaps he was trying to prove himself during his ride with the visiting on-car. Perhaps he didn't take the initial OJS seriously. Load quality, delays, traffic, weather, etc., all could have played a part. It very easily could have been that he did not respect his center supervisor and did not feel that he needed to prove himself while he did feel that he needed to prove himself with the visiting sup.

At any rate, this termination was about much more than production.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Red,

Post everything you claim....

The PM you sent me was incomplete....


Show the case number for everyone....


Hope this person wasn't TDU....



-Bug-

 

[dannyboy]

this driver was also part of the members united slate, he was running for office of 804 in the next election!

This guy had the company miffed at him enough to fire him, and yet he trusted the guys he is trying to unseat at the union hall to defend him?

What a Schmuck. In this situation, there would be nobody I would trust with my job. Fur sure not the union guys that might actually have to go back into actually doing a days work for the pay.

Secondly, your sporh is an average. Get it, average. That means that some days you will run more, other days, less. But over all the average should be lets say 17.

Now, the company pulls the stats and shows that for five days over the last 3 weeks you were running 14 stops an hour.

I would be interested in knowing what the average was for those other days added in. That gives a much better view of production that just a one day shot.

If he demonstrated a consistent pattern of running 13-14 stops an hour, there is a problem. As tie said, might be he was too busy planning too far ahead instead of taking care of business now.

This information is something the driver should have without having to rely on the companies data sheets. (read here little black book) There have been times where I had different data than the company. Interesting issue when that comes up, I assure you.

There are drivers that do go out with the “I’ll show them” mentality, and in their stupidity give the company ammunition for further action. Seen it too many times. And even when you try to warn the driver about “getting even” with ups, they ignore the advice.

Of course Tie had a point. It might be that this is something that he wanted to happen, as it would give him great bragging rights to having been sold out by the union, when it comes time for the elections. You know, corrupt union officials getting bedded by an evil company.

 

[02hawk]

Bottom Line-Things of this nature are going on all over the country,THIS IS A SAD DAY.Our UNION PRES.better get off his duf and look at things.

 

[local804]

This guy had the company miffed at him enough to fire him, and yet he trusted the guys he is trying to unseat at the union hall to defend him?

What a Schmuck. In this situation, there would be nobody I would trust with my job. Fur sure not the union guys that might actually have to go back into actually doing a days work for the pay.

Not speaking for the driver, but I think it would be safe to say he is very unhappy with the current union and could very well be a reason why he was planning to run for BA. You know as well as I do that there is an agency that he can file a claim with if he was not represented fairly. I also think the union was very aware of this case and would have been off the rocker if they would let this guy hang just because he was planning on running against them.

 

[dannyboy]

804

I have requested the actual hearing notes on the matter. Until then, I will refrain from posting any more on this matter, as it hurts to dang bad.

d

 

[LKM123]

His first ojs with his center supervisor he averaged 12 stops an hour. The outside supervisor on his next ojs less than a year later was an average of 14.5 stops. The center manager was on the record saying he didnt have confidence in his center team thats why he opted to go outside the center. I guess you method theory makes you look a bit foolish.

The ojs numbers on his new ojs ranged from 11.3 to 15.9, thats a 4.6 sph gap.

It is what it is.

He didn't have confidence in his center team? Then why are they there, if his team is not able to handle their specified job specifications shouldn't they be canned , or maybe they should be shadowed for 3 days of harassment and nagging by the district manager as to why they can't perform their job to certain expectations? They used an outside sup because he was obviously better at getting the driver to move faster. Perhaps the outside sup has had many a year experience doing ride alongs and is good at harrasing intimidating the driver into going faster. Again, I feel 3 day rides are used to harass and trap drivers. We got drivers in our center who run 2 to 3 hours over EVERY DAY but skip their lunch to get their business del , never file 9.5's... yet they don't get ridden with. I saw 4 diff drivers last year , hard working drivers who filed 9.5's and run a half hour over each day and instant 3 day ride the next week. One of the drivers on his ride said his sup would actually call his pick ups telling them they would be late, some of them past their close time. So on paper it looks like he can do more bus stops , but yet when no sup on car we gotta be in the 15 min time window on pick ups or risk getting written up, dont know about your centers but the 15 min window thing was our main pcm focus for over a month last year? The union needs to stay strong on performance policy , don't recognize it.

 

[brownIEman]

And B I N G O we have a winner....
Here's your prize---> Your getting Lei-ed....

ummm, guys, before you get too excited with the point you feel you have made, might I remind you that being an on-road supervisor, riding on-road with drivers, whether for 3 day rides, safety rides, or training rides etc, IS this supervisor's normal duties.

 

[dannyboy]

lmk

The union needs to stay strong on performance policy , don't recognize it.

Im going to be nice.

In case you did not notice, because of the union taking this to the panel, they have given the company a precedence setting ruling saying that they can recognize it.

So no matter how strong the union wants to pretend it does not matter, because they took a bad case the full route, its there for UPS to exploit and expand on.

So your post, while simple, is kinda like asking ever body to stick together about keeping water in the jug, when the union spilled the water on the sand. No matter how much sand you get back into the jug, the water is out. Too late.

d

 

[BigUnionGuy]

dannyboy,


Where is the case....

RED said there was one..............



-Bug-

 

[tourists24]

In my 20 years at UPS... we have had one termination for production in my area... try a google search with ("local 61" mark thompson).... In a nutshell, the company fired him for not maintaining standards; the union refused to hear the case and walked out; the arbitrator continued and upheld the termination. I had a ringside seat for this whole thing in our center.

This case was a little different than the one here, but it IS a production case that was upheld by an arbitrator. It is an interesting read.

 

[some1else]

Your only asking for trouble if you run one number with the supes riding you and then do 25 to 35 stops per day LESS when they leave you alone.

25-35 stops could easily be due to management telling pre-load to insure a good load for the lock-in

how about some "method reminders" to utilize during check rides

as mentioned before make sure the management doesnt help you at all.

avoid backing
dont go into driveways!!
make sure you send in a message to get help with over 70s
walkpaths
park legally
any other good ones?

just a few and most routes i cover that would subtract way more than 3sphor

 

[1980]

In my years , for the most part, never saw anyone targeted that did not push the envelope.

 

[1989]

park legally???


Not a method.

 

[some1else]

park legally???


Not a method.

perhaps; but im pretty sure you will not be instructed by ups to park illegally

i go an extra 50 feet past a stop to avoid a fire zone; and a sup is going to say "no park in the fire zone" lol

 

[rod]

perhaps; but im pretty sure you will not be instructed by ups to park illegally

i go an extra 50 feet past a stop to avoid a fire zone; and a sup is going to say "no park in the fire zone" lol

They will never tell you to do anything illegal------but then again they will never tell you to slow down either

 

[diesel96]

Quote:
Originally Posted by browniehound
If the sup. can be disposed for 3 full days with a driver and away from his/her normal duties it begs the question: do we really need them?




Quote:
Originally Posted by diesel96
And B I N G O we have a winner....
Here's your prize---> Your getting Lei-ed....

ummm, guys, before you get too excited with the point you feel you have made, might I remind you that being an on-road supervisor, riding on-road with drivers, whether for 3 day rides, safety rides, or training rides etc, IS this supervisor's normal duties.

There are instances where on-road supervisors are not phyically able to perform these duties, be it with heart conditions, over-weight conditions, etc..For able body on-roads, safety and training are one time annual normal duties but 3 day ojs performance rides are not. These are primarily use for attemted disciplinary reasons and are not the cost effective normal routine of their primary duties.