Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will state.

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by AssistantSanta, Dec 25, 2011.

  1. AssistantSanta

    AssistantSanta New Member

    Finished up as a Xmas driver's helper. At the end, I filled out the form indicating interest in working at the hub.

    During orientation, we were told that though we have to pay some/whole amount of union dues, partaking union membership is totally up to *me*.

    I just did some reading here:
    nrtw.org/RDA.htm

    I understand that I am required to pay "financial core" part of union dues and I remain a member of collective bargaining and in exchange I'm entitled to full benefits and fair representation as a member of collective bargaining unit.

    By not joining, my understanding is that I won't pay portions of dues that go to union politics or non-collective bargaining fees. I'll lose the right to take part in union internal affairs but I understand that I'm immune from picket lines, union disciplines and fines.

    On paper, it looks good. In the real world, am I going to become a target of harassment for exercising my right to not join the union?
     
  2. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta

    Not really a problem... you are in a union job.. why wouldnt you want to join if you wish to have a union job?
     
  3. AssistantSanta

    AssistantSanta New Member

    Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta

    I happen to be interested in the job and it happens to be heavily union. I don't join things that can impose discipline and fines unless the benefits outweigh the demerits.

    Being in a at-will state, I'm compelled to pay collective bargaining portion of the dues and in exchange I'm entitled to fair representation (on paper...). I'm not interested in partaking in union politics.
    What I'd like to know is that in real world, am I going to get fair representation? Are they going to treat me like a second class citizen because of my choice to not to become a member or worse yet, are the old timers going to harass me as the green behind the ear rookie kid that won't join the union?
     
  4. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta

    well... it is a union job... look at it this way... everything that you earn was negotiated by the teamsters... why wouldnt you want to be a part of it? There are plenty of non union jobs out there if you simply wanted a job. It costs money to have representation... I have issues with my union, but I pay my union dues so have a right to voice it to them. Why would you want to take a union job and force your coworkers to pay your share of the representation the union shop entails?
     
  5. AssistantSanta

    AssistantSanta New Member

    Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta

    I am not. I still have to pay the collective bargaining and the associated representation part of the dues. Heck, I had to pay the dues even as a seasonal helper..

    Paying collective bargaining dues is not optional(well it is mandatory in at will-states like here, it is not in right-to-work states) . Membership (and union disciplines and fines that go with it) is optional.
     
  6. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta

    It seems you are in a non-Right-To-Work State, so as a non-union member you have to pay an Agency Fee in lieu of Dues to cover the cost of legitimate services the Union provides to you.

    Where are you getting the phrase "at-will state?" I've never heard of it, myself.

    An "at-will employee" is someone not protected by a Contract, that can be fired at-will for any reason, or no reason, at any time, so long as the stated reason doesn't violate public policy. (An at-will employee generally can't be fired for being the wrong race, sex, religion, ethnicity, disabled etc.)
    - - - -

    Almost everyone at UPS is at best a second class citizen. Other are third, forth, fifth, sixth class etc.
     
  7. Johney

    Johney Raise your hand if you think Upstate is a D-Bag

    Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta

    If you are not a union member and get into some type of trouble with the company that wouldn't be the time to find out if you will get the union's full cooperation now would it? I'll add how would you even know if they fully went to bat for you? I pay my dues and like someone said I have some issues with them, but feel that in a pinch they would do their best for me. In my time here I've seen guys drop out paying dues,cross picket lines and seems they no longer work here. Coincidence? Maybe. I'm not taking the chance. Were those guys treated different? Yes by some,but not by all. Choose wisely my friend you are about to enter a job world that is beyond what you ever imagined. Seasonal and being a REAL employee are too different worlds you will find that out soon enough. Good luck.
     
  8. AssistantSanta

    AssistantSanta New Member

    Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta

    It's not a "right to work" state here, so not paying any dues is not an option anyhow. Are you basically saying that union has some of the bullying and harassment characters that I learned about in history class?

    I don't want to take parts in union politics. If I pay the agent fee/partial dues that cover collective bargaining expenses and representation, can I expect fair treatment or am I going to face discrimination for rescinding full membership?
     
  9. menotyou

    menotyou bella amicizia

    Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta

    You don't want to join, but if you get in trouble you expect to be treated like someone who does join? From the perspective of the teamsters, does that sound fair to you?

    Here, you would pay about 92% of the dues if you choose not to join. It is your choice.

    If you are looking for some of the drama concerning harassment and bullying, you need look no further than your own UPS Labor Supervisor. That would be my experience, at least.
     
  10. AssistantSanta

    AssistantSanta New Member

    Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta

    Yes, absolutely, because

    If I wasn't paying any dues, that's a different story, but that won't be the case.
     
  11. menotyou

    menotyou bella amicizia

    Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta

    I was not talking from the perspective of money. You are. It is not fair, and I freely admit I wouldn't treat you the same if I were your BA.
     
  12. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta

    This discussion reminds me of when my father was in a nursing home in failing health. He was on Medicaid and the hospital administrator assured my brother and I that the staff had no idea who was private pay and who was on Medicaid but the sad reality is that they all knew and the level of treatment/care provided was clearly based on ability to pay.

    I agree with the OP's basic premise. I dislike the fact that a portion of my dues are used to further the Teamsters' objectives in Washington, DC, through lobbying. Menotyou said the percentage is 92%--it is actually 99.44%. She was also right when she said that if she were BA she would not work as hard for a non-dues paying member as she would for one who does. That is human nature.

    To the OP--union dues are deductible on your Federal income taxes under unreimbursed job expenses if you itemize.
     
  13. gorilla75jdw

    gorilla75jdw Active Member

    Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta

    Welp for starters , most bums do not join because they want something for nothing , in 6 months he will have a new thread entitled " I got canned and no one helped me " , you get what you you pay for , juzz saying bro
     
  14. Johney

    Johney Raise your hand if you think Upstate is a D-Bag

    Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta

    What is the difference in what you "have" to pay and what you would pay? I don't really care myself what they do with my dues it wouldn't matter if I did, what I want is them there for me when and if I need them. Just so you know I live in a "right to work" state.
     
  15. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt You can call me Chappy Staff Member

    Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta

    Because he will not be making Union wages.

    I can't understand why any new part-timer would join the Union in a right-to-work state.

    The Teamsters does nothing for P/T.

    The Teamster's use the resources (health benefits, pension, "you name it") of the part-timers to subsidize the F/T Drivers.

    JMO based on years of being a P/T and just common sense.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2011
  16. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt You can call me Chappy Staff Member

    Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta

    Sounds like you will be supporting F/T Drivers with your Agency fees or dues, which ever way you go. Might as well join the Union to be safe. You'll find that the Teamster's representative are subject to human nature even though it is illegal for the Teamster's and their representatives to treat a union member and a non-union member differently. Sounds like you are screwed, blued and tattooed.

    P/T employees don't really need Union representation:
    - You will not be making wages that need to be protected - you can make more at McDonalds.
    - There is such high turnover in P/T ranks that you will given multiple chances (that does vary by location)
     
  17. menotyou

    menotyou bella amicizia

    Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta

    If you at paying the ivory soap % of dues, anyways; why not join the union?
     
  18. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta


    Hoax you keep saying that the Teamsters do not care about part timers. How would you like me to post the contract proposals from 2008 where the Teamsters asked for higher wages, faster benefits and lower the progression years for the part timers????

    I could also post the companies proposals were seniority would be broken by disability and workers comp, were they wanted the beneifts to kick in after 3 years etc.

    The contract says that the pay is a minimum, why dont you tell your bosses to increase it if you are that concerned!!!!
     
  19. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta

    AssistantSanta, will you cross a Teamster Strike Line to work at UPS during a Strike?

    - - - -
    I don't know how many employees refuse to join the Teamsters in Right-To-Work states, but according to the 2010 IBT LM-2 report, there were 1,326,972 Teamster members, and 68,120 non-member Agency Fee Payers.
     
  20. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt You can call me Chappy Staff Member

    Re: Pros and Cons of not joining the union? Hub worker candidate here in At-Will sta

    I don't say the Teamsters are not concerned but just the facts of what is in the contract.

    Please post as I am interested.

    As my signature states, "The postings on this site are my own and don't necessarily represent UPS's positions, strategies or opinions."

    And my signature before my current one said, "Ignore words, judge by actions. Pay no attention to what people say...observe their actions."
    This is still in my profile under "Personal Quote".