Thanks Andy M, you pulled it off!

[LagunaBrown]

Thanks Andy M, you pulled it off!

Hoffa Sux wants pension contributions to dwarf part time wages????...... It's already slated to be $10.85 by the end of the contract. 20,000 a year is already going to a "green" pension plan.......WTF is his argument again? Ask local 804, the central states and New England pensions would love what we got!

 

[104Feeder]

Can you explain the new language regarding driver issues, helpers, combos and transfers please?

Package Drivers: New language regarding routes being broken out, basically the Company has to call them 90 minutes prior to start time to tell/leave message that your route is out today, and you have the option to bump the least senior driver in the loop or be utility for the day (must respond by 1 hour prior to start time). Idea is to make it difficult for the Company to just screw with drivers by breaking out routes.

Also if one is permanently eliminated (broken out 3 days per week for a 30 day period) Driver has can file a grievance and invoke one of two options: 1. all routes that received work from permanently eliminated route shall be rebid amongst all drivers within a loop by seniority & odd man out becomes utility. 2. Only routes that received the work from the permanently eliminated route shall be re-bid amongst the affected drivers by seniority & odd man out becomes Utility. Local Union decides which option they will be applicable throughout their jurisdiction, and "work" is generally considered to be 1 hours worth, so that could be 1 stop or 20+.

Helpers: Only utilized Oct 15th till Jan 15th (does not affect January vacation selection); Part time employees have first opportunity to perform work prior to hiring off street provided they can report to & complete their primary job. Includes air drivers. Off the street hires get "All Other" rate of pay while existing employees get $1/hr more than "All Other" (10/15-12/31). Any PT as Helper using any form of mechanized mode (bike, golf cart, etc) shall be paid their inside rate of pay (or Air Driver rate of pay) for all hours worked in that capacity. Mechanized only 10/15-12/31.

No helpers may be utilized if any FT are laid off in Local's jurisdiction (so all of AZ for 104)

Jan1-15th no mechanized & utilizing PT only paid $3/hr more than "All Other" rate of pay. No outside hires unless exhausted all PT. No forcing bid driver off their route for the purpose to utilize helpers.

Combos: Basically if Combo has one good job & one crappy job, they can request vacated or newly created work and have 2 good jobs.

Cover Drivers: Areas without ratios will meet and establish ratios. Cover working 5day/40hr week as Pkg Driver shall be considered Pkg Drivers as it applies to Saturday Air work (no more forcing to work Saturdays).

Transfers: Package driver who transfers shall retain Company seniority for the purpose of fringe benefits but shall be placed at the bottom of the center seniority list for the purposes of layoff, rehire, bid, selection of vacation, and transfers. Basically once you transfer you can't jump ahead of everyone and transfer again.

The above are from my notes at the meeting today.

 

[rpoz11]

You again.
Are you Andy's official media delegate?
Exactly what part of this agenda are you officially assigned as?

To start off with, nice to see the PowerPoint presentation as an actual website.
Was once convinced that this might never become reality, but after much reading,
When will they ACTUALLY produce the plan summary description?
As I read the printable flyers, this is the last thing that we receive?
Really?
And you expect a VOTE on a ballot, to be received by 12-10-13.

Understandably(sp), members are concerned about what they are voting on.
The website does not provide the actual language behind what you want us to vote yes on.
Comparable coverages, to what the Company plan is.
Tell us all exactly how this occurred?
Even your Stewards couldn't answer this.
Right out of the box you have 95% of this mimicking the corporate plan.
As a representative of the WC negotiations, just exactly how did Andy's team arrive at this so closely?
The company was stating that it must be equal to or better than what they were currently offering.
Why was that?

"Held down the current retiree healthcare increases which was amazing considering the current climate
and protected future retirees"
Tell us all how insurers are going to back these 'increases down' over time?

Financial Health of this between 2013-2018 :
Go get Andy and ask him for the financial paperwork behind this.
I am still waiting for this.
There has been NO discussion regarding producing the plan on how the costs work for the next 5 years and beyond.

Same providers, improved coverage with minor increases & some decreases in costs, nice job!
$5 retail prescriptions, $0 mail order,
$10 office visits,
Same/some minor changes dental coverage, vsp, life insurance, STD,
5 year family healthcare coverage member death benefit was a nice surprise,
Held down the current retiree healthcare increases which was amazing considering the current climate
and protected future retirees,
Reasonable deductible held out till the last year of the Contract,
Still $9.85 minimum/hr FT going to pension,$20,500/yr, $102,440 for the life of the Agreement, better if healthcare costs stabilize. It still amazes me that it's like having your shadow get paid while you work.
On top of that, exciting language to address Driver issues, helpers, Combo's, and transfers.
Obama should have tapped Andy to fix the ACA.

VOTE YES!

WR177Healthcare.com

 

[104Feeder]

HoffaDoesn'tSux,

You know, I have a few favors due me and I would be happy to arrange your transfer to anywhere in the Central States since you seem to feel that their pension & Teamcare are so superior to the WCT/177 Plan. I'm sure someone in the CS would be happy to take your place.

The $1 to Pension & H&W has always been split between the two, and it's only because of our MOU that we were able to to generously pad our pensions over the years. Andy was straight up that we shouldn't expect anything from that $1 toward our pension in Year 2 & it will be determined each year what we can put toward our pension. Regardless, it will never be less than $9.85/hr over the life of this agreement, and I challenge you to find a more generous contribution anywhere else. Yes we can vote to redistribute some of our GWI to pension if it is needed, but really at the funding levels we are at now I highly doubt that will be needed. Most people I know retiring today who had only a few years PT & no supervisory time are getting $60k/yr in Pension, how much do you need? Hell if they would give me that today I would be stepping over bodies trying to get first in line.

 

[LagunaBrown]

Thanks Andy M, you pulled it off!

The GWI language is everywhere and common. You do realize it would have to be voted on but it's not even an issue since the west pension is so good. Now pair that with the generous health care contributions that you complain about being so high do you really think it is gonna need more?......... If there is a time to get the plan started up it is now.

 

[104Feeder]

You again.
Are you Andy's official media delegate?

Nope. I'm "just" a Steward.

Exactly what part of this agenda are you officially assigned as?

Asked and answered.

To start off with, nice to see the PowerPoint presentation as an actual website.
Was once convinced that this might never become reality, but after much reading,
When will they ACTUALLY produce the plan summary description?

What we have today is better than we've had in prior years. Usually it's a one page double sided summary.

As I read the printable flyers, this is the last thing that we receive?

You'll receive all the pertinent language changes in your ballot as you usually do.

Really?

If I had my way, I have plenty of leftover Halloween candy I would put in your ballot.

And you expect a VOTE on a ballot, to be received by 12-10-13.

Ballots go out this month.

Understandably(sp), members are concerned about what they are voting on.
The website does not provide the actual language behind what you want us to vote yes on.
Comparable coverages, to what the Company plan is.

See, if you had more from Aetna or Kaiser in the past you would be able to compare on your own, but you didn't get more before did you?

Tell us all exactly how this occurred?

It's my understanding that Andy worked with Southwest Administrators using the framework for a plan setup for Safeway. Two people from Safeway sit on that board. Why don't you ask Andy yourself?

Even your Stewards couldn't answer this.

I have Stewards?

Right out of the box you have 95% of this mimicking the corporate plan.
As a representative of the WC negotiations, just exactly how did Andy's team arrive at this so closely?

I'm not a representative of the WC, but if I become one I would say so. It's my understanding they stayed with the current providers to ensure a "seamless transition".

The company was stating that it must be equal to or better than what they were currently offering.
Why was that?

It seemed to me it was the language that allowed the 'carve out' that was saying that.

"Held down the current retiree healthcare increases which was amazing considering the current climate
and protected future retirees"
Tell us all how insurers are going to back these 'increases down' over time?

I'm sure in 5 years we will be facing better circumstances. The ACA will hopefully have had a chance to work & HC costs might be showing signs of stablization. Or maybe it's worse. Regardless, we're prevented from bargaining for current retirees & can only bargain for future retirees. No one is interested in screwing retirees of any generation as we will all hopefully be one someday. In my opinion you roll the dice as to what the climate is going to be when negotiations occur, and this couldn't have been a worse time for us as far as healthcare is concerned. It's only the the strength of the West from people like Andy who kept our MOB's in place all these years that saved our ***** frankly.

Financial Health of this between 2013-2018 :
Go get Andy and ask him for the financial paperwork behind this.
I am still waiting for this.
There has been NO discussion regarding producing the plan on how the costs work for the next 5 years and beyond.

And I'm sure you'll still be waiting. It's a brand new plan and it's our baby. Personally, I'm excited that we have a chance to do something better for our Members and now we can claim credit for the Plan's success or responsibility for it's failure. You know as well as I do that everything is up for negotiation every Contract year with Healthcare being the exception because of th Maintenance of Benefits language. Now with that gone we'll be taking a hard look at what the Company can afford to keep our plans in place and perhaps improve them. Seems to me that what we should be doing is holding Management accountable so that we continue to make record profits & maybe being smart about how we spend our Healthcare dollars as it's really all of our $ now.

 

[104Feeder]

Re: Thanks Andy M, you pulled it off!

The GWI language is everywhere and common. You do realize it would have to be voted on but it's not even an issue since the west pension is so good. Now pair that with the generous health care contributions that you complain about being so high do you really think it is gonna need more?......... If there is a time to get the plan started up it is now.

Hell Yeah Let's Go!

 

[104Feeder]

Re: Thanks Andy M, you pulled it off!

Hoffa Sux wants pension contributions to dwarf part time wages????...... It's already slated to be $10.85 by the end of the contract. 20,000 a year is already going to a "green" pension plan.......WTF is his argument again? Ask local 804, the central states and New England pensions would love what we got!

And why wouldn't he be contributing to his Roth 401(k) or starting up a Roth IRA is he fears the Pension will be in such dire straits? I always hedge my bets.

 

[rpoz11]

Package Drivers: New language regarding routes being broken out, basically the Company has to call them 90 minutes prior to start time to tell/leave message that your route is out today, and you have the option to bump the least senior driver in the loop or be utility for the day (must respond by 1 hour prior to start time). Idea is to make it difficult for the Company to just screw with drivers by breaking out routes.

Also if one is permanently eliminated (broken out 3 days per week for a 30 day period) Driver has can file a grievance and invoke one of two options: 1. all routes that received work from permanently eliminated route shall be rebid amongst all drivers within a loop by seniority & odd man out becomes utility. 2. Only routes that received the work from the permanently eliminated route shall be re-bid amongst the affected drivers by seniority & odd man out becomes Utility. Local Union decides which option they will be applicable throughout their jurisdiction, and "work" is generally considered to be 1 hours worth, so that could be 1 stop or 20+.

Do you have this in the WC Supplement or both including the SW Rider?

If so, this ought to get interesting.

Ive been calling for this for over a year now.
But...
90 minutes prior notification,
then...
the affected driver has 1 hour to reply?
so, you are askng the company to notify the affected driver 30 minutes in advance of their 1 hour window?

Apologize for not understanding more, but that divided up work :
will it stay within the loop it was pulled from?

and the affected driver :
he/she bids to stay within that loop?

​just trying to understand this.

 

[rpoz11]

See, if you had more from Aetna or Kaiser in the past you would be able to compare on your own, but you didn't get more before did you?

It's my understanding that Andy worked with Southwest Administrators using the framework for a plan setup for Safeway. Two people from Safeway sit on that board. Why don't you ask Andy yourself?[/qoute]

Send him back out!

I'm not a representative of the WC, but if I become one I would say so. It's my understanding they stayed with the current providers to ensure a "seamless transition".

It seemed to me it was the language that allowed the 'carve out' that was saying that.

??? The Carve Out was saying that ???
Which 'Carve Out' are you referring to?
The WC/177 one .... Or ... Obama's?


I'm sure in 5 years we will be facing better circumstances. The ACA will hopefully have had a chance to work & HC costs might be showing signs of stablization. Or maybe it's worse. Regardless, we're prevented from bargaining for current retirees & can only bargain for future retirees. No one is interested in screwing retirees of any generation as we will all hopefully be one someday. In my opinion you roll the dice as to what the climate is going to be when negotiations occur, and this couldn't have been a worse time for us as far as healthcare is concerned. It's only the the strength of the West from people like Andy who kept our MOB's in place all these years that saved our ***** frankly.


And I'm sure you'll still be waiting. It's a brand new plan and it's our baby. Personally, I'm excited that we have a chance to do something better for our Members and now we can claim credit for the Plan's success or responsibility for it's failure. You know as well as I do that everything is up for negotiation every Contract year with Healthcare being the exception because of th Maintenance of Benefits language. Now with that gone we'll be taking a hard look at what the Company can afford to keep our plans in place and perhaps improve them. Seems to me that what we should be doing is holding Management accountable so that we continue to make record profits & maybe being smart about how we spend our Healthcare dollars as it's really all of our $ now.

.

And you refer to the outcome of the PP ACA.
Why?
Elaborate for us please!!!!

"and now we can claim credit for the Plan's success or responsibility for it's failure"

This is EXACTLY everyone's concern , 104!

 

[104Feeder]

Do you have this in the WC Supplement or both including the SW Rider?

If so, this ought to get interesting.

Ive been calling for this for over a year now.
But...
90 minutes prior notification,
then...
the affected driver has 1 hour to reply?
so, you are askng the company to notify the affected driver 30 minutes in advance of their 1 hour window?

Apologize for not understanding more, but that divided up work :
will it stay within the loop it was pulled from?

and the affected driver :
he/she bids to stay within that loop?

​just trying to understand this.

OK are you not in the Southwest Rider?
The language says "When the Company makes the decision that it is necessary to break out, or temporarily eliminate, a route(s) within a loop for one or more days the seniority of the drivers within that loop shall be applicable...." then the conditons I said before: Company has to notify 90 minutes prior, Driver has 30 minutes- till 1 hour prior to start time- to notify Company what he/she wants to do. If he/she doesn't then they work as a Utility driver but if their route is reinstated they shall return to it immediately.

Like I said, there is lots of good language in the Western & the SW Rider that Andy has negotiated for us. Some of the best I've seen.

 

[104Feeder]

.

You our refer to the outcome of the PP ACA.
Why?
Elaborate for us please!!!!

"and now we can claim credit for the Plan's success or responsibility for it's failure"
This is EXACTLY everyone's concern , 104!

Teamsters Local 104, 602-272-5561 ask for Andy.

The ACA, in my opinion, is the first significant step towards reigning in healthcare costs. IMO it doesn't go far enough and if I were King of the United States I would institute a much more socialist plan that would have Red Staters swimming for Cuba. Right now UPS is getting out of the healthcare business by writing a bigger check to Teamcare & WR177healthcare instead of Kaiser, Aetna et. al. I'm sure they hope to write a smaller check in 5 years, just as they hope to screw us out of money any way they can every negotiation. A wise man said "negotiate like you think the other party is trying to screw you because they probably are". Why would you expect anything to be different?

WR177healthcare and the ACA have nothing and at the same time everything to do with each other; but not in the way you seem to think so.

 

[rpoz11]

104, you miss quoted my question.
​
"Comparable coverages, to what the Company plan is."
Tell us all exactly how this occurred?

 

[rpoz11]

104...

"Right out of the box you have 95% of this mimicking the corporate plan.
As a representative of the WC negotiations, just exactly how did Andy's team arrive at this so closely?"

andy is is who I was referring to.

Just EXACTLY how did Andy's team arrive at this so closely?

 

[rpoz11]

Re: Thanks Andy M, you pulled it off!

WR177healthcare and the ACA have nothing and at the same time everything to do with each other; but not in the way you seem to think so.

Really?!!

You left an open box at Pandora's door, 104.
Ms Brewer would like to meet you.

 

[104Feeder]

104...

"Right out of the box you have 95% of this mimicking the corporate plan.
As a representative of the WC negotiations, just exactly how did Andy's team arrive at this so closely?"

andy is is who I was referring to.

Just EXACTLY how did Andy's team arrive at this so closely?

It's like you're asking for hidden video or recordings on the negotiations between Andy, SW Administrators, & Aetna et. al. Not gonna happen. What he said to us all today is that they basically 'bought out' the plans in place now with some changes (higher costs in some areas, better benefits in others). Of course he said they will be shopping around in later years & future contracts if we can improve our plan & benefits. We have quite a bit of buying power now.

 

[104Feeder]

Re: Thanks Andy M, you pulled it off!

Really?!!

You left an open box at Pandora's door, 104.
Ms Brewer would like to meet you.

I would tell her thank you for getting rid of the freeway cameras and for not caving to her party & expanding Medicaid. Then I would chastise her for not setting up a State exchange.

 

[RealPerson]

Re: Thanks Andy M, you pulled it off!

It's not the 90's anymore brother... How much was gas the? How about the cost of a house? UPS would hav screwed you long ago if the teamsters didn't get that $50 dollar deal. Time caught up and everything is negotiated. If people showed up to meetings they would know what is on the horizon but instead they make their own fairytales.

Exactly and UPS is making RECORD Profits.....
The price to mail a package is WAY up as well.

 

[LagunaBrown]

Thanks Andy M, you pulled it off!

We make almost $20 dollars AN HOUR more than our competitors. We are by far the leaders in pension, healthcare and wages. Sorry it's not good enough for you.

I hope you realize that at some point we will out price ourselves and create a gap that will give our competitors advantage because the cost of business.

 

[kingOFchester]

Re: Thanks Andy M, you pulled it off!

We make almost $20 dollars AN HOUR more than our competitors. We are by far the leaders in pension, healthcare and wages. Sorry it's not good enough for you.

I hope you realize that at some point we will out price ourselves and create a gap that will give our competitors advantage because the cost of business.

Yup, this is why I tell everyone to save save save. Don't go and buy a boat. Don't buy the newest greatest car. No need for a 4000 sq' home. Dinners at 5 star dining establishments is not necessary. Never buy a car on credit. If you can't afford to buy it with cash, you should not be buying it. I did however buy my wife's car on a 0% loan they were offering. I could of bought it with cash, but I used that money to make more money sitting in the bank. But make sure you have the money to pay in full.

Suck it up and pay off all debt. Instead of getting the aged Filet's, grab the steak on sale. No need for the entire family to have internet on their phones. Max out your retirement account options. Make sure you have , AT THE LEAST, 6 months of salary in a liquid account. Once you get all that done, then sure....enjoy a nice dinner out every now and then. Go ahead and get the new iphone. Just be sure to continue to fund retirement accounts. Continue to fund a liquid account. If you follow this plan, you could survive making a ton less then you do now. We all want things NOW. Secure your future now, then enjoy some of the luxuries once that is done. You may find that you may not even want some of those luxuries once you waited for them.


Take the car loan. Lets say you bought a car for 25k. O down at 4.5% for 6 years. Total paid: $28k +
Take the 25k and put it in an interest paying account. Lets say you get a return of 4.5% compounded: $32k +

6 years, own a car worth 5k after spending over 28k or
6 years, have an account worth 32k?

Not even taking into account sales tax on a 25k car.