Yes or NO on NEW CONTRACT?

Will u vote yes or no on the new contract?


  • Total voters
    362
  • Poll closed .

hondo

promoted to mediocrity
Brothers and Sisters, CALM DOWN! Please take a step back and a deep breath. We've seen enough rumors and innuendo for now. Over the next few days (until you get all the cold, hard facts), take some time to review what's most important to you in the next contract. CS people, you know what's important to you. Art 22.3 & 40 employees, I'm sure you have your own agendas. PC, Feeder, part-timers like myself, those close to retirement, look carefully at what you'll be gaining/giving up and try and balance what's best for you with what's good for us all (even take a second to consider the current and retired Teamsters who will remain in CS). There are a whole lot of pieces to this puzzle: CS, wages, benefits, contract language, UPS Freight (they seems to be tied in, too), etc. Please stay back, see it all, get the big picture. As I see it the only item requiring a sense of urgency is the pension reforms going into effect. Please be careful what you wish for, you just might get it, but at what cost?
 

brazenbrown

Well-Known Member
Brazen,
You might be in the closet about the details, but we here in our local are well informed about ours. We have had building meetings led by our BM who is on the neg committee and we have a huge local meeting on the 14th. Its not so hush hush outside of your bubble.

Not all the locals have had their meetings and as you've mentioned you still have another huge local meeting to attend.:wink:

Don't you think rather than projecting all this negativity before we know ALL the details it would make better sense to inform ourselves?? This vote is important enough for all of us and to spin it before hand doesn't do any of us any good!!:thumbup1:
 

brazenbrown

Well-Known Member
(1) It IS a cut in pay. You've heard of inflation, right. IN-FLAY-SHUN. Look it up. Like, $3 gas. Maybe $6 in 2013. Yes, UPS pays it too. But so does FedEx. That's why UPS gets to add a fuel surcharge to its rates whenever it can signal FedEx and DHL to do the same and still make lots of money. But it's not a reopener for us.

I don't really want to debate details since we're not done getting them. What I heard is after 90 days a new part-time employee goes from $8.50 to $10.50, that's a 25% raise and that's huge!

(2)And why are we going BACKWARDS on making seniority and progression and medical benefits for parttimers and god knows what else we haven't heard about yet? It's not like they're buying us off with money.

Your comment "and God knows what else we haven't heard about yet?" only makes my point stronger and shows us how you're reacting without knowing exactly what you're talking about.

In my opinion kids coming in as a new hire would rather have the jump in pay and couldn't give a rat's rear end about the benefits coming later.


Not going backwards is a "demand of the greedy"? You wear a tie at work? Sounds like it.

So anyone who doesn't chip in to the "Voting No" category is wearing a tie...Please!
 
Your comparing me having 42 dollars left in my pocket after all expenses paid to UPS's 4.2 billion after all expenses paid?? I think i'd rather be in UPS's boat...To start with 43 billion and end up with 4 billion is a lot different than ending up with 42 dollars from 428. Big percentage difference....

That's the point I'm trying to make, there is NO percentage difference. 4 billion is such a large number, you're not able to get past the dollar signs you see so I tried to break it down into numbers that you can. 42 is exactly the same percentage of 470 that 4.2 billion is of 47 billion. In my example, you're left with exactly the same percentage of your check as UPS is. Doesn't seem like quite as much now, does it?
 

brazenbrown

Well-Known Member
Couldn't have said it better myself!! Brazen seems to have a problem with people who say they are going to vote no..

I don't have a problem with people voting no, I have a problem with people being uninformed and creating a big hype about a handshake agreement that has not been given to the people to vote on yet.

By all means vote whatever way suits your own opinion, Just be smart about it and quit trying to persuade others with manipulative garbage!:crying:
 

HazMatMan

Well-Known Member
I don't have a problem with people voting no, I have a problem with people being uninformed and creating a big hype about a handshake agreement that has not been given to the people to vote on yet.

By all means vote whatever way suits your own opinion, Just be smart about it and quit trying to persuade others with manipulative garbage!:crying:

That's the point, so far the info I got wasn't very enjoyable to hear, you call it misinformation, and yet I am getting it from a Union rep. I am by no means manipulating others with garbage other than saying I am voting NO..
 

brazenbrown

Well-Known Member
That's the point, so far the info I got wasn't very enjoyable to hear, you call it misinformation, and yet I am getting it from a Union rep. I am by no means manipulating others with garbage other than saying I am voting NO..

As I mentioned in post #176 It's the guys like Philly who started this thread and is posting in other threads whose sole prerogative it is to get people to vote no by trying to manipulate them. I think that's wrong and unlike you others may be subject to voting no with being influenced by the likes of him.

You can vote no all day long if that's what you believe it's not for me to say.:thumbup1:
 

local804

Well-Known Member
Not all the locals have had their meetings and as you've mentioned you still have another huge local meeting to attend.:wink:

Don't you think rather than projecting all this negativity before we know ALL the details it would make better sense to inform ourselves?? This vote is important enough for all of us and to spin it before hand doesn't do any of us any good!!:thumbup1:

All this negativity we are projecting? I personally dont think my point of view of the hogwash that is thrown at us should be thought as "projecting negativity"

Our local is getting alot less than the rest of the Teamsters in pay and other important issues, and I am suppost to be happy? We have to repay a loan to fully fund our pension and the CS get a check loan free? Why should we make 10 cents less than every other hard working teamster when for as long I can remember we get the same pay. I can go on but I wont bore you with my negativity.
 

govols019

You smell that?
https://web.archive.org/web/20090302162811/http://www.trafficworld.com/newssection/edit.asp

Contract Terms
10/8/2007
Paul Page
Editor in Chief When

UPS announced its contract settlement with the International Brotherhood of Teamsters in 2002, the company headlined the agreement as the "best contract ever." It may not sound quite as catchy, but what UPS and the Teamsters agreed to last week may be the most far-reaching contract ever in the domestic shipping industry.
That is because this contract, more than perhaps any other labor agreement UPS has negotiated, sets the terms for business and labor management relations far beyond the borders of the company's own operations and will affect transportation workers well beyond the 240,000 or so UPS employees covered by the contract.
It's a historic agreement not because it extends an era of stability for the country's largest private transportation company, although it does do that, but because it provides the answer by one of the country's largest employers to questions over pensions and retirement planning at the forefront of workplace discussions today.
With the provision allowing for UPS to buy its way out of the Central States Pension Fund, the company is preparing to work with the Teamsters union on the pension planning for its workers. It comes with a $6.1 billion price tag, of course, which few companies outside of UPS could afford. But for the money, UPS at last will get to fully own a pension benefit that companies and workers increasingly see as nearly as central to employment as wages themselves.
That agreement allowing UPS to opt out of the multiemployer plan follows an agreement earlier in September between General Motors and the United Auto Workers that will restructure the pension plans for GM's 73,000 unionized employees and create a trust fund managed by the union and the automaker to oversee health care pension benefits.
The UPS plan will have a broader impact, however, as it triggers a potential restructuring of benefits at Central States and puts pressure on YRC Worldwide and ABF Freight System to take a hard look at their participation in the plan.
The UPS-Teamsters agreement also will reverberate across the competitive field perhaps more than even the hard-fought pact the two sides signed after the 1997 strike. In some ways, with its blockbuster pension provision and the suggestions of new workplace flexibility, the 2007 agreement may well be the one UPS wanted 10 years ago.
Details on that flexibility weren't public last week, but it's no secret UPS would like to shift some of the parcel traffic from Teamsters drivers onto the longer-haul lanes of UPS Freight. That, along with the potential for the Teamsters to step up organizing efforts at the largely nonunion LTL carrier, is just a piece of a larger operating puzzle UPS is putting together to meet changing demands in global supply chains.
Another operator doing that, of course, is FedEx, which may feel the impact of the UPS agreement in Memphis, and perhaps in Washington. The Teamsters may have struck a deal with UPS, but it's not going too far to say the company they want to reach is FedEx.
 

satellitedriver

Moderator
All this negativity we are projecting? I personally dont think my point of view of the hogwash that is thrown at us should be thought as "projecting negativity"

Our local is getting alot less than the rest of the Teamsters in pay and other important issues, and I am suppost to be happy? We have to repay a loan to fully fund our pension and the CS get a check loan free? Why should we make 10 cents less than every other hard working teamster when for as long I can remember we get the same pay. I can go on but I wont bore you with my negativity.
Why is your pension in trouble?
I know my situation in CS and the excuses for it, but why is 804's pension in bad shape.?
Excuse my ignorance.
It seems one needs an abacas to keep tally of all the different pensions, even though we all work for the same company.
West Coast seems solid, Red says, 705 is doing great, mechanics up north covered under a machinist contract will retire making more than I do working 50hrs a week.
I guess I could do a google search to answer my main question, but I would like to know a personal view, of why 804's pension is in trouble.
No agenda on my part, just a willingness to hear your perspective.
PAX
 

HazMatMan

Well-Known Member
That's the point I'm trying to make, there is NO percentage difference. 4 billion is such a large number, you're not able to get past the dollar signs you see so I tried to break it down into numbers that you can. 42 is exactly the same percentage of 470 that 4.2 billion is of 47 billion. In my example, you're left with exactly the same percentage of your check as UPS is. Doesn't seem like quite as much now, does it?

Well, unlike UPS's "leftover 4 billion" My "leftover 42 dollars" is not going to gas my car for 3 days. I would still take a "UPS leftover 4 billion" over a "leftover 42 dollars" any old day. To compare the 2 and say it's the same percentage is silly. Mathematically it may be the same, but not economically. And I disagree, It still seems like quite as much now. (4 billion, poor UPS)
 
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HazMatMan

Well-Known Member
As I mentioned in post #176 It's the guys like Philly who started this thread and is posting in other threads whose sole prerogative it is to get people to vote no by trying to manipulate them. I think that's wrong and unlike you others may be subject to voting no with being influenced by the likes of him.

You can vote no all day long if that's what you believe it's not for me to say.:thumbup1:

I am thankful for your concern, but Philly by no means is influencing me to vote no, My no vote was determined by the info my Steward gave me. As I had said about 6 times on here already.
 

local804

Well-Known Member
Under a UPS-Teamster pension, the trustees get to vote and control every aspect of the pension. Our pension was underfunded (so they say)so the trustees voted to reduce our pension 30%. With or without a majority vote, they can force the descision to an arbitrator which defeats the purpose of having trustees. Management controls all of the company trustees spots. The reasons for underfunding can be blamed from the stock market ,people living longer,to mis-matching the penion contributions which is the trustees total blame. In these boards we hear about everyone wanting an "All UPSers Pension plan" well guess what, I have an All Upsers pension plan and it isnt what we all think it would be(actually prob 98% Upsers).
 
Well, unlike UPS's "leftover 4 billion" My "leftover 42 dollars" is not going to gas my car for 3 days. I would still take a "UPS leftover 4 billion" over a "leftover 42 dollars" any old day. To compare the 2 and say it's the same percentage is silly. Mathematically it may be the same, but not economically. And I disagree, It still seems like quite as much now. (4 billion, poor UPS)

Except that UPS isn't paying for one car with it's 42 Billion, it's paying for 10,000 of them. And fixing 7000 transmissions, and replacing 5,000 tires, and 30,000 wiper blades, and 100,000 gallons of windshield washer fluid... Economically, it's still the same. Everything they have to pay for is multiplied by thousands. That was the whole reason for breaking it down by percentages into every day numbers. Regardless, you're obviously unable to get past the $4 Billion number and see the point I've made time and time again.
 
Under a UPS-Teamster pension, the trustees get to vote and control every aspect of the pension. Our pension was underfunded (so they say)so the trustees voted to reduce our pension 30%. With or without a majority vote, they can force the descision to an arbitrator which defeats the purpose of having trustees. Management controls all of the company trustees spots. The reasons for underfunding can be blamed from the stock market ,people living longer,to mis-matching the penion contributions which is the trustees total blame. In these boards we hear about everyone wanting an "All UPSers Pension plan" well guess what, I have an All Upsers pension plan and it isnt what we all think it would be(actually prob 98% Upsers).

Just curious, but what do you mean that contributions mismatched? How?

IMO I think there is a little bit of a difference between yours and the CS situation, in that while we had the same issues with the stock market, people living longer, etc, CS was also being dragged down by the increasing number of non-UPS employees drawing from a plan that was realistically funded by about 3 companies, with UPS paying substantially more than it's employees were drawing.
 

sawdusttv

Well-Known Member
All this energy directed at who's voting "no" and who's voting "yes", would be better utilized by getting UPSers to vote at all!!!!:sad:
 

HazMatMan

Well-Known Member
Except that UPS isn't paying for one car with it's 42 Billion, it's paying for 10,000 of them. And fixing 7000 transmissions, and replacing 5,000 tires, and 30,000 wiper blades, and 100,000 gallons of windshield washer fluid... Economically, it's still the same. Everything they have to pay for is multiplied by thousands. That was the whole reason for breaking it down by percentages into every day numbers. Regardless, you're obviously unable to get past the $4 Billion number and see the point I've made time and time again.

You sure seem hung up about that 4 billion. Do you work for IE??? You sound like you want me try cry a river of tears that UPS "ONLY HAS 4 BILLION AFTER ALL EXPENSES" And to compare that to what the average working joe has left is ridiculous.
 
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You sure seem hung up about that 4 billion. Do you work for IE??? You sound like you want me try cry a river of tears that UPS "ONLY HAS 4 BILLION AFTER ALL EXPENSES" And to compare that to the average working joe is ridiculous.

I'm hung up on the 4 Billion a hell of a lot less than you are, you can't get past that figure to see the mathematics behind it. It's not about feeling sorry for UPS only making 4 billion. It's about opening your eyes to the fact that while it's an incredibly large sum of money, the expenses are literally 10x that amount. This all started because you were unable to comprehend basic economics and seem think that because the company made 4 Billion, it would have no effect if they "only made 3 Billion" and spread the rest of it around. All I tried to show you was that the profit is relative to the expenses and that 4 Billion can disappear faster than you think. You can keep looking at it like an overflowing bucket of money if you wish, but I've made my point.... multiple times... and I give up on trying to explain it to you. Best of luck to you in your future monetary adventures.....
 

HazMatMan

Well-Known Member
I'm hung up on the 4 Billion a hell of a lot less than you are, you can't get past that figure to see the mathematics behind it. It's not about feeling sorry for UPS only making 4 billion. It's about opening your eyes to the fact that while it's an incredibly large sum of money, the expenses are literally 10x that amount. This all started because you were unable to comprehend basic economics and seem think that because the company made 4 Billion, it would have no effect if they "only made 3 Billion" and spread the rest of it around. All I tried to show you was that the profit is relative to the expenses and that 4 Billion can disappear faster than you think. You can keep looking at it like an overflowing bucket of money if you wish, but I've made my point.... multiple times... and I give up on trying to explain it to you. Best of luck to you in your future monetary adventures.....

Let's see, 10 years ago UPS only had 1 billion after expenses so they must be doing something right. As far as my "Future monetary adventures" It will be a short trip unless I can come up with an "extra 4 billion":thumbup1:
 
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