1 sentence for your top & bottom 3 contract issues

[TheVoice]

Hey know it all . where were you when these items were being discussed before the contract settlement. You're another johnny come lately using this board for your own personal agenda.

Okay, I will attempt to play nice.

The truth of the matter is, you’re right Tie, I am a “Johnny-come-lately.” The fact is, I had no knowledge of this forum until recently. A brother I work with turned me onto it. Had I known that it existed earlier, I would have joined earlier. Who knows, we might have even been civil to each other at first.

But I just don’t normally have the time to interact in these sites…and I will further admit that, my timing is selective. I can’t help that either way. But I respect that a forum like this exists. I think its important that there be a dialog between people of all sides to this thing, in all matters. Especially, one that exists outside the normal channels. And that is not excluding any other topics in this site that I don’t know about. I am sure there are a lot of very interesting other aspects of this site I havnt seen yet. But right now, my focus is on the contract, because that is what affects my family, my coworkers, and me; union and company alike.

My intentions on joining this forum are not to misinform people, or to spread rhetoric. If I have done that in any way, please point out where I have done so, and I will try to address it. If I am wrong, I will admit it. It wont be the first time I have been wrong about something, nor will it be the last.

As for where I was before these contracts were being discussed, I was doing the same thing I assume you were doing…I was working and living, trying to get by.

I am a steward in my building and I try to stay as active with the membership as I can. I am involved with the rank and file and the company on a daily basis. So although I wasn’t active on this site, doesn’t mean I haven’t been involved since the beginning. It hasn’t exactly been easy-going, opposing the tentative contract that your own International and local, not to mention the company together, is pitching.

It simply comes down to this. Yes, I agree, the contract has some good things, it could be much worse in a lot of ways. But there are some issues that I feel needed to be addressed that weren’t. And no, they are not all economic. And there are more than a few that feel that way. And we can argue round and round about our interpretation to it all, in the end, its all semantics…as it is that we are both biased in our own ways. You, and your obviously not alone, will feel one way, while a few others and I will feel the other way. I can be cool with agreeing to disagree, can you? Lets try to be civil to each other. I would like to engage you in respectful conversation, if you can’t do that, you cant say I didn’t try.

As for making fun of the way I write, I can’t help it, that’s the way I write…no, I don’t talk like this at all.

I n the interest of making sure that people are misinformed about things, lets try and start a thread where we go down the line and talk about each and every issue that is a concern right now. You offer a unique perspective, coming from management, that a lot of us can possibly learn from, and I value that opinion, I am just not cool with the bantering back and forth…trust me though, I am a big boy, I can deal with it if that’s the way it has to be played…but the truth is, it doesn’t have to be. So truce?

The Voice

 

[TheVoice]

Also, I enjoyed the link to the socialist site, regarding the Ronnie C. article, I have never seen that…made for and interesting read.

 

[TheVoice]

...as regards to the statement above, should read, "...not misinformed..." And no, that was not a Freudian slip. Just writing to fast to keep up with my thoughts...

 

[705red]

Whan i started in the early 90s i needed medical, and was not worried about the $8 an hour, and that wasnt really bad then. Now i am a ups lifer and ups has taught me a great work ethic which also teaches me how to be a better person, husband and father in life. Theres to many language changes to get into, and my main concern is the p-time aspect of the contract. My one sentence would have to be,

Todays p-timers are tomorrows ftimers, can you imagine this company in the next 20 years?

 

[tieguy]

Whan i started in the nearly 90s i needed medical, and was not worried about the $8 an hour, and that wasnt really bad then. Now i am a ups lifer and ups has taught me a great work ethic which also teaches me how to be a better person, husband and father in life. Theres to many language changes to get into, and my main concern is the p-time aspect of the contract. My one sentence would have to be,

Todays p-timers are tomorrows ftimers, can you imagine this company in the next 20 years?

Todays part timers have more opportunity and will have it much quicker then you did in the early nineties. We have a lot of people retiring now and vacating full time jobs. We did not have that. The company is still growing and creating new full time jobs which is why ups is not afraid to agree to the 20,000 full time jobs language.

 

[satellitedriver]

Okay, I will attempt to play nice.

The truth of the matter is, you’re right Tie, I am a “Johnny-come-lately.” The fact is, I had no knowledge of this forum until recently. A brother I work with turned me onto it. Had I known that it existed earlier, I would have joined earlier. Who knows, we might have even been civil to each other at first.

But I just don’t normally have the time to interact in these sites…and I will further admit that, my timing is selective. I can’t help that either way. But I respect that a forum like this exists. I think its important that there be a dialog between people of all sides to this thing, in all matters. Especially, one that exists outside the normal channels. And that is not excluding any other topics in this site that I don’t know about. I am sure there are a lot of very interesting other aspects of this site I havnt seen yet. But right now, my focus is on the contract, because that is what affects my family, my coworkers, and me; union and company alike.

My intentions on joining this forum are not to misinform people, or to spread rhetoric. If I have done that in any way, please point out where I have done so, and I will try to address it. If I am wrong, I will admit it. It wont be the first time I have been wrong about something, nor will it be the last.

As for where I was before these contracts were being discussed, I was doing the same thing I assume you were doing…I was working and living, trying to get by.

I am a steward in my building and I try to stay as active with the membership as I can. I am involved with the rank and file and the company on a daily basis. So although I wasn’t active on this site, doesn’t mean I haven’t been involved since the beginning. It hasn’t exactly been easy-going, opposing the tentative contract that your own International and local, not to mention the company together, is pitching.

It simply comes down to this. Yes, I agree, the contract has some good things, it could be much worse in a lot of ways. But there are some issues that I feel needed to be addressed that weren’t. And no, they are not all economic. And there are more than a few that feel that way. And we can argue round and round about our interpretation to it all, in the end, its all semantics…as it is that we are both biased in our own ways. You, and your obviously not alone, will feel one way, while a few others and I will feel the other way. I can be cool with agreeing to disagree, can you? Lets try to be civil to each other. I would like to engage you in respectful conversation, if you can’t do that, you cant say I didn’t try.

As for making fun of the way I write, I can’t help it, that’s the way I write…no, I don’t talk like this at all.

I n the interest of making sure that people are misinformed about things, lets try and start a thread where we go down the line and talk about each and every issue that is a concern right now. You offer a unique perspective, coming from management, that a lot of us can possibly learn from, and I value that opinion, I am just not cool with the bantering back and forth…trust me though, I am a big boy, I can deal with it if that’s the way it has to be played…but the truth is, it doesn’t have to be. So truce?


Please, just be concise in your writing/posting.
Your writing skills are excellent, but they detract from the points you wish to express.
I tend to nod off, when reading your posts.
A simple paragraph with a beginning, middle and end could be distilled from your post.
PAX

 

[Coldworld]

Todays part timers have more opportunity and will have it much quicker then you did in the early nineties. We have a lot of people retiring now and vacating full time jobs. We did not have that. The company is still growing and creating new full time jobs which is why ups is not afraid to agree to the 20,000 full time jobs language.

EXACTLY! This isnt the 70's when the ratio was 1 to 1 and there were HUNDREDS of people from off the street to get 3 driving jobs. In large metro centers they cant even find enough people to go driving. Seems like the smaller centers are full of old timers who will be going soon enough. Between the two largest centers in my state they have hired way over 100 drivers in the last year or two. There is also something interesting in the contract that states that ups can pull loads off the train when needed. Many on here slammed this with them being able to use subcontractors, etc. Maybe tie can explain better, but ups has been having trouble with trains, crashes, late loads, etc. Sounds like ups wants to address the problem, especially since fedex pulls alll their loads...no trains. If this happens, there will be more feeder jobs, more pkg jobs, you get the idea. I have seen more movement into feeder the last year than in my whole driving career at ups. MANY feeder guys and gals are up there in age....there is going to be so much movement in the next 3 or 5 years...this is a sure thing. It will get to the point that new part time people wont have to wait 1 1/2 years for family healthcare because they will be going driving in 6 months.

 

[sawdusttv]

EXACTLY! This isnt the 70's when the ratio was 1 to 1 and there were HUNDREDS of people from off the street to get 3 driving jobs. In large metro centers they cant even find enough people to go driving. Seems like the smaller centers are full of old timers who will be going soon enough. Between the two largest centers in my state they have hired way over 100 drivers in the last year or two. There is also something interesting in the contract that states that ups can pull loads off the train when needed. Many on here slammed this with them being able to use subcontractors, etc. Maybe tie can explain better, but ups has been having trouble with trains, crashes, late loads, etc. Sounds like ups wants to address the problem, especially since fedex pulls alll their loads...no trains. If this happens, there will be more feeder jobs, more pkg jobs, you get the idea. I have seen more movement into feeder the last year than in my whole driving career at ups. MANY feeder guys and gals are up there in age....there is going to be so much movement in the next 3 or 5 years...this is a sure thing. It will get to the point that new part time people wont have to wait 1 1/2 years for family healthcare because they will be going driving in 6 months.

The thing I don't like about the language on pulling work off the rails is.
Correct me if I 'm wrong, but the way I read it is that if they pull work off the rail and create a feeder job, they have the right to do away with a 22.3 job.
So if this is the trend, to pull work off the rail and create feeder jobs , great I am in feeders and that would benefit me. BUT, to do away with the 22.3 job that were won over the last few years is unacceptable, and if this be the case, by the end of this contract they will have taken back all the 22.3 jobs that were created.

 

[705red]

EXACTLY! This isnt the 70's when the ratio was 1 to 1 and there were HUNDREDS of people from off the street to get 3 driving jobs. In large metro centers they cant even find enough people to go driving. Seems like the smaller centers are full of old timers who will be going soon enough. Between the two largest centers in my state they have hired way over 100 drivers in the last year or two. There is also something interesting in the contract that states that ups can pull loads off the train when needed. Many on here slammed this with them being able to use subcontractors, etc. Maybe tie can explain better, but ups has been having trouble with trains, crashes, late loads, etc. Sounds like ups wants to address the problem, especially since fedex pulls alll their loads...no trains. If this happens, there will be more feeder jobs, more pkg jobs, you get the idea. I have seen more movement into feeder the last year than in my whole driving career at ups. MANY feeder guys and gals are up there in age....there is going to be so much movement in the next 3 or 5 years...this is a sure thing. It will get to the point that new part time people wont have to wait 1 1/2 years for family healthcare because they will be going driving in 6 months.

Ups has been pulling the loads off of the rails for some time now. They had to to keep up with and in some cases provide better service than fedex. The union just agreed to allow them to add feeder runs when at the same time lowering our 22.3 workers inside. Now this does not mean they will fire/layoff a 22/3er, they will not rebid that position due to 22.3er going package, quitting, retireing etc. Now heres the problem, how can you keep accurate numbers on this? 5 new runs created elimating 22.3, however 8 feeder drivers retire, yet ups only hires 3 new drivers, now we (upsers) just lost 5 ftime jobs, 22.3, feeder it doesnt matter we lost.

It also allows them to subcontract for 30 day periods, now if you are having a hard time enforcing the contract already how will you defend this? Ups should never be allowed to subcontract OUR work!

 

[Damok]

It also allows them to subcontract for 30 day periods, now if you are having a hard time enforcing the contract already how will you defend this? Ups should never be allowed to subcontract OUR work!

Will it be subcontracting to Freight? I understand we don't want to lose UPS jobs but could this have been a nod to Freight in hopes of getting a lot of new Teamsters through the card check?

 

[TheVoice]

Will it be subcontracting to Freight? I understand we don't want to lose UPS jobs but could this have been a nod to Freight in hopes of getting a lot of new Teamsters through the card check?

That is what I was thinking as well.

 

[livinitup]

The 22.3 language in the tentative agreement does not create anymore opportunity for part-time workers. All it says is that they will be allowed to fill 20,000 permanent full-time jobs.

The key word is fill. Which means when an opening exists a part-timer will be given the opportunity to fill it. It doesn't create new jobs. There is already language that provides this to part timers on a 6 to 1 basis. The 1 will be counted if someone transfers into a vacancy.

 

[sawdusttv]

The 22.3 language in the tentative agreement does not create anymore opportunity for part-time workers. All it says is that they will be allowed to fill 20,000 permanent full-time jobs.

The key word is fill. Which means when an opening exists a part-timer will be given the opportunity to fill it. It doesn't create new jobs. There is already language that provides this to part timers on a 6 to 1 basis. The 1 will be counted if someone transfers into a vacancy.

The 20,000 is probably their projection of how many full-timers will retire over the life of the contract, so in that case we don't gain a thing.

 

[Coldworld]

can someone please explain. Wouldnt it be cheaper to have more full time inside jobs, than 2 part-timers. Less on healthcare, less training, less turnover, would paying into 2 part-time pensions be more expensive than paying into one. Seems as if the combo jobs dont get much OT, so why not have more of them, maybe im off here...????

 

[downtowner]

Like I said, I started at $8.50 an hour and worked part time 11 yrs before I was offered a full time driver posistion. I was happy with my raises and never once gave any thought that my previous teamster brothers had in some way screwed me (probably did, if I wanted to gripe).
Fact is, I could have left the company during any of those 11 part time yrs.
I did not, because I knew a good paying job awaited me and with a strong company.
It seems that alot of posters here want something for themselves, the new hire and the 80yr old retiree.
I want that too, but I realize I can't have it all and have it all at once.


I think many teamsters loose sight of a financially strong company.
I want them (UPS) to make money.
They reinvest it in new aircraft, new package cars and new technology ect.ect.
THE COMPANY GROWS (more business) and so do the TEAMSTERS(more members).

It just makes no sense to demand the moon for everyone in all areas.
What is everyone willing to give up for:

no 3 yr progression
no staggerd raises
no new waiting period for insurance
Higher PT starting wages
New full time jobs, etc.etc.

Do any of you full timers want to agree to the staggerd wage increase so your Teamster brother new hire can start at $9.50? I doubt it.

If you do not think you are compensated well and that your Part time teamster brother does not have a bright future, thats your perogitive to think so.

I have not decided which way I will vote.
I'm leaning towards NO,
but I realize, any ratified contract will not make me or any teamster 100% happy.

 

[sawdusttv]

Like I said, I started at $8.50 an hour and worked part time 11 yrs before I was offered a full time driver posistion. I was happy with my raises and never once gave any thought that my previous teamster brothers had in some way screwed me (probably did, if I wanted to gripe).
Fact is, I could have left the company during any of those 11 part time yrs.
I did not, because I knew a good paying job awaited me and with a strong company.
It seems that alot of posters here want something for themselves, the new hire and the 80yr old retiree.
I want that too, but I realize I can't have it all and have it all at once.


I think many teamsters loose sight of a financially strong company.
I want them (UPS) to make money.
They reinvest it in new aircraft, new package cars and new technology ect.ect.
THE COMPANY GROWS (more business) and so do the TEAMSTERS(more members).

It just makes no sense to demand the moon for everyone in all areas.
What is everyone willing to give up for:

no 3 yr progression
no staggerd raises
no new waiting period for insurance
Higher PT starting wages
New full time jobs, etc.etc.

Do any of you full timers want to agree to the staggerd wage increase so your Teamster brother new hire can start at $9.50? I doubt it.

If you do not think you are compensated well and that your Part time teamster brother does not have a bright future, thats your perogitive to think so.

I have not decided which way I will vote.
I'm leaning towards NO,
but I realize, any ratified contract will not make me or any teamster 100% happy.

You list several investment stratagies the company uses to grow.
What happened to investing in your people.
I know they invest in there management, but equally as important are the hourlies.
A happy work force is a productive work force!!!!!!!