22.3 Over Time

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by Anonymous 22.3, Jun 20, 2008.

  1. Full time 22.3 inside/outside air driver here. as with all 22.3 in my building we get really no overtime i have been catching the part time air drivers getting over time over us and i have seniority over them too

    after 5 hours he is on over time
    after 8 hours i am on over time

    its a matter of 10 mins before we are both on over time as i start early then him
    i can also deliver just as good if not better then him.

    just wanna know if this happens else were management does not answer why they do this

    if i file i am then a target any tips
  2. UPS Lifer

    UPS Lifer Well-Known Member

    Nobody gets over time unless they work over 8 in one day or over 40 in one week or they work a 6th day in the same week.

    Pick up a contract and read it. It will answer these type of questions!
  3. outamyway

    outamyway New Member

    Yep, I've worked over six plenty of times and never got overtime for it.

    Part timers don't get overtime working a sixth day though. At least not with our contract.
  4. tritese

    tritese tritese

    for whatever reason there is hardly any overtime for our 22.3 folks.....we did however file a grievance that if extra work was available then the 22.3 FULL TIME employees were offered the work before ANY part timer.......if there is extra work in the hub then we are offered it over part timers......some of our combo people work a sixth day report for overtime....
  5. Mike Hawk

    Mike Hawk New Member

    Part timers don't get O/T on the sixth day because they usually are not at the 40 hour a week mark.
  6. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    Yes the same thing happen in my building and its been going on for a couple of years. NO 22.3 is to go over 8 without prior permission from our manager.
    I believe it stems from a labor ruling that was in the company's favor.
    And yes every p/t can work as many hours as they wish.:knockedout:
  7. outamyway

    outamyway New Member

    You and all the 22.3 upsers are probably lucky 22.3 jobs still exist. I've heard it's one of the most hated of all the job classifications by the uppers.

    I'm just assuming you are 22.3 by your statement. If you're not then disregard it being directed to you.
  8. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    Exactly they are the most desired jobs. Quite a few older employees who wish to retire with their bodies still intact bump all the younger guys. And yes I am 22.3 ( Year 1 combo ).
    22.3 jobs can not be eliminated , changed yes, but they will always be there.:laughing:
  9. outamyway

    outamyway New Member

    I did say probably lucky. The uppers had their eyes on the combo jobs. They were able to eliminate creating new ones in the new contract but we were able to keep the old ones. So yes, they will always be around, for at least five years:wink2:
  10. JonFrum

    JonFrum Guest

    Pick up the New England Supplement and read it. Article 55 - PART-TIME EMPLOYEES has for years guaranteed part-timers time-and-one-half after five hours. (In recent years, the overtime rate only applies if you work over five hours on your original shift.)

    I wonder how many other Supplements have a similar provision.
  11. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    Up here in CHEMA hub, there's more OT than I know what to do with. I get 5 hours a week and I'm asking to go home because I don't want it. Plus, they work us 6pm through 10:30/11pm on the TWI then want us back at 11:30. Thanks alot for the 1/2 hour lunch. a-holes

    In other centers, ones that I've worked, 22.3 cannot sniff a minute of OT. Baba Gounj made mention of this. What management did was seperate the jobs so part-time and full-time were not intermingled wherever possible, therefore eliminating the ability for a FT'er to grieve a PT'er going over 5. It's a clever method.

    For instance - a Counter/Local sort job was bid, but then management forced the employee to stay counter/counter to "head off" any possible squibbles before they started.

    All 22.3's should definitly be able to bump a P/T'er out if they are going over 5 hours and you are going over 8. The full-time employee always gets the OT and if you don't then you're getting screwed and should absolutely grieve it if they're sending you home.
  12. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    No they will be around alot longer. I suggest you exactly read the contract.
    And lucky is not how I would describe having a combo job. I should have stayed p/t, I would have more control over my sanity.
  13. JonFrum

    JonFrum Guest

    The current contract runs from 12/19/2007 thru 7/31/2013. No contract provision or guarantee extends beyond midnight, July 31, 2013 unless the parties specificly make a new agreement to that effect.

    [ It's the same with Congress. No Congress can bind a future Congress by passing a Law that can't be repealed or modified. The future Congress can just pass a new law repealing or modifying the old Law. ]

    When the next round of contract negotiations begins in 2012 or so, UPS can propose that all 22.3 jobs be eliminated, and the Teamsters will have to give up something to keep the jobs (assuming they want to keep the jobs.) That's the big weakness of labor negotiations. You often have to give up something to get something. You often end up "buying" your contract improvements. (Like when we New Englanders, years ago, gave up Washington's Birthday to get a different day off as a holiday --- The Day After Thanksgiving or December 31st, can't remember which.)
  14. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    What elected union fool would try to piss off 20,000 + teamsters ?
    Besides UPS makes $$ on combo jobs, full time workers at reduced rates.
  15. tritese

    tritese tritese

    a sixth day report is OT here, no matter how many hours are worked.....and a seventh day is double time...........even if you only work 32 hours as a full time employee......
  16. tritese

    tritese tritese

    the part timers here get over time after five hours unless they work eight and then that is considered a double shift and OT kicks in after the eight...
  17. Mike Hawk

    Mike Hawk New Member

    For peak helper rules part timers get preload pay OT after 5 hours on preload, then when they help they work 3 straight hours helping then on to helper pay OT. When I work an extra shift on the local sort I get overtime since I'm already over 5 from the preload. I think your part timers are getting boned.:sad-little:
  18. JonFrum

    JonFrum Guest

    Probably the same elected union officials who negotiated away the creation of any 22.3 jobs during the first two years of the old contract, and the entire five years of the current (new) contract. Their names are printed in the contract book. And remember, the contract was unanimously endorsed by Teamster officials nationwide, not just those on the negotiating committee.

    True. But UPS and the Teamsters have made such a mess of the whole 22.3 job creation process from Day One, that both sides are sick of it. Besides, UPS probably dreams of having the work done by low-seniority part-timers at even less expense.

    I'm not predicting that existing jobs will be eliminated. Just advising that we keep an eye open.
  19. UPS Lifer

    UPS Lifer Well-Known Member

    22.3 jobs have always been confusing... to most folks. The company has done everything to stay within the confine of the contract (kicking, scratching and clawing the whole time!)

    22.3 jobs were a concession by the company, a concession they did not want to see, and the company will not give an inch to create additional cost by allowing OT.

    It is cheaper to add a PT employee than to pay OT. If you were running a business you would do the same thing.

    A couple of additional points....

    Home Center - which operation will benefit from the OT and which operation will have to pay it? This has always been a big mess - pay was a major issue at the beginning of the 22.3 process along with training, job assignments and transfer rights, etc. etc. etc !!!

    Initially, there were employees that were working longer than their alloted time on the 1st shift which caused the second shift to have staffing issues and get behind. Now the employee can no longer work past the schedule and must report on time to the second shift. Any scheduling changes must be communicated by the Home Center to the other shift.

    How do you think that usually works? LOL!

    OT is an expense that is easily controlled for inside jobs. If a manager can't control it, the division manager will find someone who will control it.

    At the West Coast Air Hub - this is usually a major problem the last 3 weeks before peak. The union and labor agreed upon a course of action that seems to work well. There is an other work sign up sheet. With out going into to much detail there are some rules that must be followed. Any employee can sign up for extra work on one additional shift. If you fail to report 3 times (or they can't get a hold of you) you are off the list until the next month where you can sign up again. I used to have a shop steward help make the calls .... this eliminates the distrust.

    Like I said, this seems to work very well....during this peak time frame there are no additional PT employees to work so 22.3 are allowed to participate if they sign up the previous month.
  20. UPS Lifer

    UPS Lifer Well-Known Member

    This is a matter of how you are looking at the apple!

    It is cheaper to have two PT employees than one 22.3 employee.
    Two PT employees give you flexibility and you don't have to pay FT benefits.

    Based on "splitting the baby".... This was the best case scenario for the employees and the company.

    Why is there so much distaste for 22.3 jobs???

    The company fought too hard to keep it from being implemented. Then they were under the gun and did a terrible job of identifying the right jobs to be combined and in implementing and defining the process. The employees and management had to learn as we went along and the employees suffered because of it.

    If the company did the right thing initially, (sucked it up) and sold it properly as well as trained both sides, this would be a great union/company achievement. As far as I am concerned, this is a black eye on UPS.