9.5 Arbitration decision - Or - Why clear contract language is important

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by zubenelgenubi, Sep 19, 2019.

  1. browned out

    browned out Well-Known Member

    A part time steward in the hub and an alternate full time steward in the center. I know way More than the teamsters Union would like me to.

    You still have no answers. You would not be helping me, I will get my 40 hours. You would be helping many other drivers obtain their 40 hours instead if being Screwed out of hours because UPS is manipulating the volume to Saturday's and Sunday's.

    You have Already admitted our local rider is garbage.

    Still you have no answers. You are useless.

    Do you have a closet full of teamster watches and teamster jackets? Are you aware of kickbacks to Teamster officials?
  2. SameRightsForAll

    SameRightsForAll Active Member

    The first thing I ask when I read an article is how did the company word the language such that it means nothing or leaves it open for interpretation at the time it's used, then I ask why the negotiator let this happen. Most of the contract is riddled with vague language. This lets me know everything I need to know about the Teamsters upper echelon. Even the 3/4ths majority rule that allowed Hoffa to steam roll over us is just a down right embarrassment.
  3. BigUnionGuy

    BigUnionGuy Got the T-Shirt

    Really ?
  4. zubenelgenubi

    zubenelgenubi Well-Known Member

    I have made no secret about my views on poorly written language in the contract and the constitution, and lack of accountability for union leadership. They have mostly been met with derision from people who claim to be major supporters of the union. I am actually a proponent of the union, and I know that for the union to retain its strength the elected officials must keep the trust of the members.

    When the elected officials claim one thing, but members experience another, the members start to lose trust in the elected officials, and the union falls apart. And you can't blame the members for that, they don't have the authority to take the action officials can. Lack of involvement on the members' part does not give officials carte blanche. The Union does not exist to enrich the elected officials who fail at their jobs.

    My problem is not with authority in general, it is with failed authority, particularly those who lie or blame others to cover up their failures. That goes for the union, it goes for management, and the government. When you accept a position in which your actions have an impact on the lives of others, you have to take that seriously. Good leadership will always receive my support, because I understand the difficulty of the task.
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  5. UnconTROLLed

    UnconTROLLed perfection

    Lol, this was me 20 years ago
  6. zubenelgenubi

    zubenelgenubi Well-Known Member

    What's different about your views now? Really interested.
  7. BigUnionGuy

    BigUnionGuy Got the T-Shirt

    I like reading your post's.

    There is some thought behind them.

    I might not agree....

    The language is not poorly written, it just doesn't say what "some" people want.

    The members have an avenue, of holding elected officials accountable.

    Every Local is audited by the IBT every 5 years.

    @Bubblehead asked in a different thread....

    Who is your "dream team" ?
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  8. Boywondr

    Boywondr The truth never changes.

    First, just what does the 9.5 language "say"?

    You dont know.

    Second, hold elected officials accountable? How about them holding themselves accountable? Why is it the members fault bud?
    That diversion is getting old. Really old.

    And now, you are patronizing Bubblehead. Cant you fight your own fights or back up your own statements?

    "The language just does not say what some people want." ?????
    What do some want that others dont BUG? The 9.5 language, as the members understood it was written to address the serious forced overtime, is now being renegotiated by an arbitrator. SMH
    Cant blame tdu on that one. Blame your trojan horse buddies that fail to deal honestly with the membership's #1 contract proposal....eliminate excessive overtime.

    What do they care? They arent in a package car anymore. They have forgotten the dues paying members that trusted their campaign promises.

    Now look at it. We got diminished package car jobs (22.4s) and hosed on the overtime language that allegedly precipitated the 22.4s.

    You need to stop sticking up for this two faced representation and quit calling disgruntled Teamsters tdu.
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
  9. zubenelgenubi

    zubenelgenubi Well-Known Member

    I can tell you are very knowledgeable, particularly about the contract and related issues. I know we've butted heads a lot, but from my end it has always been a means to gain understanding. I will say that I feel your posts lately have been more helpful than the ones I experienced when I first started on the forum. I don't know if it's been a change in my perspective, your communication style, or some of both, either way I appreciate it.

    I started this thread partly to demonstrate that at least some of the language is certainly not precise enough to be consistently understood or enforced. If that doesn't meet the definition of poorly written then I don't know what would.

    I was commenting in another thread about some local language that, to me, clearly limits and defines which drivers can be put on call, and what they get for having to sit around until noon to see if they will be working. Other people read it to mean that the lowest two senior drivers are only guaranteed 4 hours of work. That interpretation directly contradicts the previous section which states all drivers having gained seniority will be guaranteed 8 hrs if put to work. Our center abuses the crap out of this language, It's only allowed to have two drivers on call, but has about a dozen scheduled as "call-in". It's a huge mess that I am working with my BA to try to sort out. We'll see what happens. To me this language clearly means one thing, to others it clearly means something else, that's another example of poorly written language.

    Then there's the drivers in progression getting GWI, you and I actually agree on the interpretation of that language. But the company seems to be giving GWI to drivers in progression against what seems to have always been the understanding of the intent of the language. They are free to do so, of course, but that language is not very clear at all in any case.

    I agree, there are several, if you actually count elections, but the avenues are not always easily accessible to the average member, and the internal accountability mechanisms require that anyone bringing charges against any other union member to have definitive proof of the wrongdoing, because they will only get one shot at proving the case. I am fine with that aspect, as it prevents a bunch of frivilous charges. The question is how might an average member go about gathering the necessary evidence to be able to file and prove their charges? Some cases may be straight forward, others not so much. That leaves a lot of wiggle room for wrongdoing.

    Are the audit records made available to members? I'll check with my local at the next meeting. I think I already got them a little riled up when I asked for the bylaws, and they didn't have them readily available.

    Honestly, no clue. I don't know enough about any potential candidates to be able to form an opinion. Perhaps that's my own fault, perhaps that's just a natural result of the current state of affairs, or a little of both.
  10. zubenelgenubi

    zubenelgenubi Well-Known Member


    Not sure which part you found funny, but I understand the negativity towards and frustration with the union. I experience it myself. I am trying to learn about the issues, and gain as much understanding about different perspectives as I can. That is the only way I know to start to come up with solutions. I can only take responsibility for what I can control. I can't control who gets elected, I barely have any ability to control anything they do once they get elected. What can we, as individuals, do within our own spheres of influence to make a meaningful impact?

    It's not good enough for us to just sit back and blame elected officials for all our woes, just like it's not good enough for them to blame the members. Blindly following and supporting elected officials isn't healthy either. There is a dysfunction in the relationship that is the union. How are you going to take responsibility for helping to fix it?
  11. Boywondr

    Boywondr The truth never changes.

    The funny part was the issue where the local choked on giving you the bylaws. I didnt have time to dissect that one statement.
    Bug union guy thinks it's like taking candy from a baby to change officials. Heck, you can rarely find anyone who will take the time to be a steward because it's a headache and life has too many headaches already.

    The dirge here from some posters gets old. TDU, not enough members voted, protect the old guard. That's all you need to hear when the real facts show that we work in the only union I know of that's under federal oversight but Coli, Rome, and others play their games....with our money and some on here stick up for that corruption.
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  12. Poop Head

    Poop Head Lovin' every minute of it!

    If you're fortunate enough to be able to take a 1 hour lunch, and choose not to, you are the one(s) lacking common sense.

    Take your hour lunch and enjoy it! You ungrateful bastid!
  13. Poop Head

    Poop Head Lovin' every minute of it!

  14. barnyard

    barnyard KTM rider Staff Member

    I got my check from prime week on Friday. I am not sure if others in my building did, I do know that 2 of the grievances were tossed for being poorly written.