American Insurrection

DriveInDriveOut

Inordinately Right

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Let me put an end your line of willful support for treasonous violence Trump cult followers to rest.
Take everything that happen at the capitol on Jan 6th and imagine it was in China or Russia. How many “protesters “ do you think would have died? How many would have even got close to the capitol through the hail of bullets that would have been fired?
So you're saying you would like to see protesters against authoritarian rule shot? Because you're saying if we had a gov like those they would be shot. Well we don't yet, and people who climb through windows shouldn't be shot unless they are physically attacking the shooter who has warned them to desist or the people he is protecting. Climbing through a window isn't the same but apparently you think the Chinese crushing protesters at Tiananmen Square was a good thing.
 

BMWMC

B.C. boohoo buster.
So you're saying you would like to see protesters against authoritarian rule shot? Because you're saying if we had a gov like those they would be shot. Well we don't yet, and people who climb through windows shouldn't be shot unless they are physically attacking the shooter who has warned them to desist or the people he is protecting. Climbing through a window isn't the same but apparently you think the Chinese crushing protesters at Tiananmen Square was a good thing.
No, that’s not what I’m saying. That’s what you are saying.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
What did “Stop The Steal” mean when they marched on the capitol at Trumps behest with his lawyer demanding “trial by combat”?
Did Trump demand "trial by combat?". And "Stop the Steal" was exactly why they were there protesting. The Democrats rigged and stole a national presidential election. Don't blame them for being pissed. But no one was saying we're going to change the government right here, right now. It was a protest that got out of hand. But I tell you what. If you think it'll score the Democrats political points in '22 and '24 you go right ahead. If the choice is between the party of insurrectionists and the party that ran the country into the ground after claiming the adults were back in charge then I like those crazy insurrectionists for the win.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
A lot of what your imagining actually was argued in the Federalists Paper. I have already posted a link on another thread of James Maddison essay on majority vs minority rule.
James Madison, who was no fool, noted the same problem, but unlike Aristotle, he aimed to reduce democracy rather than poverty. He believed that the primary goal of government is "to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority." As his colleague John Jay was fond of putting it, "The people who own the country ought to govern it."


Madison feared that a growing part of the population, suffering from the serious inequities of the society, would "secretly sigh for a more equal distribution of [life’s] blessings." If they had democratic power, there’d be a danger they’d do something more than sigh. He discussed this quite explicitly at the Constitutional Convention, expressing his concern that the poor majority would use its power to bring about what we would now call land reform.


So he designed a system that made sure democracy couldn’t function. He placed power in the hands of the "more capable set of men," those who hold "the wealth of the nation." Other citizens were to be marginalized and factionalized in various ways, which have taken a variety of forms over the years: fractured political constituencies, barriers against unified working-class action and cooperation, exploitation of ethnic and racial conflicts, etc.


(To be fair, Madison was precapitalist and his "more capable set of men" were supposed to be "enlightened statesmen" and "benevolent philosophers," not investors and corporate executives trying to maximize their own wealth regardless of the effect that has on other people. When Alexander Hamilton and his followers began to turn the US into a capitalist state, Madison was pretty appalled. In my opinion, he’d be an anticapitalist if he were alive today — as would Jefferson and Adam Smith.)

 

BMWMC

B.C. boohoo buster.
James Madison, who was no fool, noted the same problem, but unlike Aristotle, he aimed to reduce democracy rather than poverty. He believed that the primary goal of government is "to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority." As his colleague John Jay was fond of putting it, "The people who own the country ought to govern it."


Madison feared that a growing part of the population, suffering from the serious inequities of the society, would "secretly sigh for a more equal distribution of [life’s] blessings." If they had democratic power, there’d be a danger they’d do something more than sigh. He discussed this quite explicitly at the Constitutional Convention, expressing his concern that the poor majority would use its power to bring about what we would now call land reform.


So he designed a system that made sure democracy couldn’t function. He placed power in the hands of the "more capable set of men," those who hold "the wealth of the nation." Other citizens were to be marginalized and factionalized in various ways, which have taken a variety of forms over the years: fractured political constituencies, barriers against unified working-class action and cooperation, exploitation of ethnic and racial conflicts, etc.


(To be fair, Madison was precapitalist and his "more capable set of men" were supposed to be "enlightened statesmen" and "benevolent philosophers," not investors and corporate executives trying to maximize their own wealth regardless of the effect that has on other people. When Alexander Hamilton and his followers began to turn the US into a capitalist state, Madison was pretty appalled. In my opinion, he’d be an anticapitalist if he were alive today — as would Jefferson and Adam Smith.)

OMG, someone who reads on the BC.
The tug of war between states rights vs federal and minority rights vs majority rights all play out in the Federalist Papers.
 

Operational needs

Virescit Vulnere Virtus
The Insurrection of Jan 6th and the violence of white supremacist groups including Trump Republicans isn't over.
Please watch the PBS Frontline episode "American Insurrection"
Before you respond.


Why would anyone waste their time watching a PBS episode that is obviously slanted, when I betcha PBS has never mentioned one word about this ”insurrection” at the Interior Department. This happened nine days ago and was barely news for ONE day. Those “resurrectionists” from January were obviously railroaded. Was it an ugly day in American history? Yes. But it has been so blown out of proportion as to almost make it comical, if not for the innocent people whose lives were ruined because they happened to be there.
 

BMWMC

B.C. boohoo buster.

Why would anyone waste their time watching a PBS episode that is obviously slanted, when I betcha PBS has never mentioned one word about this ”insurrection” at the Interior Department. This happened nine days ago and was barely news for ONE day. Those “resurrectionists” from January were obviously railroaded. Was it an ugly day in American history? Yes. But it has been so blown out of proportion as to almost make it comical, if not for the innocent people whose lives were ruined because they happened to be there.

Not even a single person was charged with insurrection for Jan 6
What planet are you two commenting from?
 
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