Bezos does the expected for once.

[bbsam]

Then tell me this ? . How could I or any CPA tell you how to achieve the lowest tax liability without first knowing what the terms and conditions of the sale are? So let's see you try to answer that one.

Ummmm. That’s easy. I’d ask the CPA how best to structure the sale. He’d know the terms and conditions because he would be helping me get the best deal possible.

Am I missing something or are you just really bad at business?

 

[59 Dano]

Not much difference in McDonald’s not serving McRibs anymore either. People and shippers will get over it. But not you. Memphis trained you how think.

You make such an effort to be such an ignorant contrarian. Have you considered making that kind of effort to be smart?

 

[59 Dano]

I wonder if the guy who sold knows that he has to pay back all the depreciation he has claimed on his trucks and he might just find himself looking at the alternative minimum tax as well.

Why do you wonder about this, bacha?

 

[59 Dano]

Ummmm. That’s easy. I’d ask the CPA how best to structure the sale. He’d know the terms and conditions because he would be helping me get the best deal possible.

Am I missing something or are you just really bad at business?

He's busy doing some very important work for a congressman.

 

[bbsam]

Adopting a “wide stance” agenda?

 

[59 Dano]

He would tell you that he'll report what you order him to report but proving the accuracy of the information outside of any willful errors or omissions on his part will still rest with you.

My CPA says otherwise. That's why I hired him.

 

[dmac1]

If they want 40 routes and double the amount of drivers, what exactly are the other 40 drivers doing that don’t have routes everyday

They plan 7 days a week, plus expect you to give days off. Double the number of drivers for 40 routes is pretty reasonable if you expect to serve Amazon professionally without excuses for not having enough drivers available. If you have 40 drivers working 4 10 hour days, you will need 40 more working 3 10 hour days. That's 80 drivers right there. If you want to pay some overtime, you may need a few less drivers. Some of your 30 hour part-timers may be available to cover absences for vacations or other time off. You will need to actually manage schedules and not just figure it will work out. You will need to show some management skills. A huge difference from just being an independent business in name only with 5-10 drivers you share management duties for with fedex.

Add in requested time off, and even drivers having one week vacation, and you need at least a couple extra drivers just to cover vacations. Then you have sudden quits, and people getting sick or injured, and I don't think Amazon wants the unprofessionalism that some fedex ISPs exhibit. They want drivers that may have access to customer homes and vehicles, and I would NEVER let a fedex ground driver making less than a living wage into either my home or vehicle. That's going to take hiring GOOD people who won't be tempted by the trust you will need to have in them.

 

[dmac1]

7 day operation, inevitable high turnover, won’t be hard to get drivers 40 hrs/week.

Not if you manage it right. Their calculations for profit already include paying drivers more and still making profit. You will actually need to manage people and schedules.

 

[dmac1]

Sure. I can’t remember off the top of my head cause I don’t have the paperwork sitting in front of me but they expect you to maintain that 80person workforce, it’s ridiculous.

It's ridiculous for the unskilled fedex ISPs where fedex allows semi-incompetent management but having 80 people on the payroll for a 7 day operation of 40 trucks makes sense. You need to cover vacations for 80 drivers based on 40 working 4 day weeks and 40 working 3 day weeks. Some of the 3 day workers can cover vacations or fill in for other absences. 80 people means about 3 drivers a week will be on vacation at any one time. A couple will be out sick, or attending funerals, dentist or doctor appointments, etc. A few will be assistant managers and part-time drivers.
A couple of them may be training the several new hires every month if you experience turnover. So at least 1/3 of those 30 'part time' drivers will really be working full-time. Just having people on the payroll doesn't mean you are paying them. Amazon isn't going to give you $300k profit for doing the same amount of work you do at fedex or for the minimal skills that running an ISP requires..

 

[bacha29]

Ummmm. That’s easy. I’d ask the CPA how best to structure the sale. He’d know the terms and conditions because he would be helping me get the best deal possible.

Am I missing something or are you just really bad at business?

You don't say? Neither he or I could tell you anything without first knowing what your INTENTIONS are Furthermore you're assuming that X will still be using this model at the time you want to sell still supports this model and that support is 100% responsible for determining the value of your operation . Therefore the value of your operation will not be determined by you but by X it's willingness to allow you to sell it to that prospective buyer and what that buyer is willing to pay. For your sake I hop that you can exit at the optimum time but when that optimum time will arrive if ever is something no one knows for certain.

 

[bacha29]

It's ridiculous for the unskilled fedex ISPs where fedex allows semi-incompetent management but having 80 people on the payroll for a 7 day operation of 40 trucks makes sense. You need to cover vacations for 80 drivers based on 40 working 4 day weeks and 40 working 3 day weeks. Some of the 3 day workers can cover vacations or fill in for other absences. 80 people means about 3 drivers a week will be on vacation at any one time. A couple will be out sick, or attending funerals, dentist or doctor appointments, etc. A few will be assistant managers and part-time drivers.
A couple of them may be training the several new hires every month if you experience turnover. So at least 1/3 of those 30 'part time' drivers will really be working full-time. Just having people on the payroll doesn't mean you are paying them. Amazon isn't going to give you $300k profit for doing the same amount of work you do at fedex or for the minimal skills that running an ISP requires..

This matter would be settled quickly and easily if one were to know the cost and revenue estimates ADP are using to reach that 300k number. Just how accurate realistic and compatible are they compared to the conditions in the area in which you seek to operate.

 

[dmac1]

But 40/80 drivers/employees 7/365 and still make your $300K? Without knowing the going rate?

They tell you the going rate- around $18 an hour. That means you should be able to keep drivers without as much turnover, and with 40 routes, you should be able to manage without paying any overtime. Unless you had more than 40 routes as a fedex ISP, you can't make $300k without driving yourself. They tell you that route pay takes into account mileage and density and they tell you that the per route profit is about $7500 per route. So they have told you the basics. Do you think that they are lying, and haven't considered things like depreciation and fuel costs, which are the major cost variables between rural and urban areas? It should be obvious to you that they have accounted for these things unless you think they are outright lying. I guess working for fedex has probably conditioned you to believe that employers are liars.

 

[bbsam]

You don't say? Neither he or I could tell you anything without first knowing what your INTENTIONS are Furthermore you're assuming that X will still be using this model at the time you want to sell still supports this model and that support is 100% responsible for determining the value of your operation . Therefore the value of your operation will not be determined by you but by X it's willingness to allow you to sell it to that prospective buyer and what that buyer is willing to pay. For your sake I hop that you can exit at the optimum time but when that optimum time will arrive if ever is something no one knows for certain.

My intentions are simple. Sell with the most I could legally keep for myself.

Jeez bacha. You really need to get a grip. It could all go to hell tomorrow and I’d file bankruptcy the next day. So what? Bad crap happens in business every day. You think people are supposed to live scared of what might happen? C’mon man. I get it. You had a bad experience with X as a “day one” and all that. Why do you insist that everyone should have the same bad experience?

 

[bbsam]

They tell you the going rate- around $18 an hour. That means you should be able to keep drivers without as much turnover, and with 40 routes, you should be able to manage without paying any overtime. Unless you had more than 40 routes as a fedex ISP, you can't make $300k without driving yourself. They tell you that route pay takes into account mileage and density and they tell you that the per route profit is about $7500 per route. So they have told you the basics. Do you think that they are lying, and haven't considered things like depreciation and fuel costs, which are the major cost variables between rural and urban areas? It should be obvious to you that they have accounted for these things unless you think they are outright lying. I guess working for fedex has probably conditioned you to believe that employers are liars.

I wonder what the breakdown will be. How many areas will require 40 trucks and 80 drivers?

 

[Fred's Myth]

They tell you the going rate- around $18 an hour. That means you should be able to keep drivers without as much turnover, and with 40 routes, you should be able to manage without paying any overtime. Unless you had more than 40 routes as a fedex ISP, you can't make $300k without driving yourself. They tell you that route pay takes into account mileage and density and they tell you that the per route profit is about $7500 per route. So they have told you the basics. Do you think that they are lying, and haven't considered things like depreciation and fuel costs, which are the major cost variables between rural and urban areas? It should be obvious to you that they have accounted for these things unless you think they are outright lying. I guess working for fedex has probably conditioned you to believe that employers are liars.

If you hurry, you can jump back on the turnip truck before it drives off.

 

[dmac1]

But when a contractors routes are ALL out in the BFE's they often have very little in the way of high revenue low input areas to offset money losing areas elsewhere. In over the past couple of years I saw examples on route boards of contractors trying to offload their junk routes in an effort to downsize while keeping the most profitable ones. In fact recently you mentioned doing the same thing yourself

I made a lot of money on rural routes based on core zone pay. From the literature, it looks like Amazon is offering something similar. My average core zone pay was over $100 a day. And there were relatively easy ways to manipulate the core zone pay. I got mine up from $80 a day to well over $100 a day just by understanding how it worked.

If the ISP has only rural routes, and hasn't been able to get higher compensation for them, it is his own fault. I think the Amazon system will be a lot better than fedex ISP, based on the overall satisfaction that people who are working for Amazon report overall. It looks like a pretty cheap entry price, compared to having to by an ISP ongoing business. $10,000, and no money down vehicle leases means all you need is the ability to provide drivers. And Amazon says they even offer help with that. For qualified. skilled ISPs, if there are any, it should be a natural leap.

 

[bacha29]

My intentions are simple. Sell with the most I could legally keep for myself.

Jeez bacha. You really need to get a grip. It could all go to hell tomorrow and I’d file bankruptcy the next day. So what? Bad crap happens in business every day. You think people are supposed to live scared of what might happen? C’mon man. I get it. You had a bad experience with X as a “day one” and all that. Why do you insist that everyone should have the same bad experience?

I consider myself a survivor but i saw a quite a number of people who didn't have much to begin with when they arrived at my station leave in an even worse position. I simply try to impart the experiences I had some good some bad some very bad in the hope that it would help someone to be better prepared for what Fat Freddy and his disciples might have in store next. Contractors as you know are always the last to know but always the first to be impacted.

 

[dmac1]

This matter would be settled quickly and easily if one were to know the cost and revenue estimates ADP are using to reach that 300k number. Just how accurate realistic and compatible are they compared to the conditions in the area in which you seek to operate.

If they estimate about $7500 profit, they must have figured out 'revenue' for the route. You will need to verify of course, but Amazon is a company I'd trust a little more than fedex, and the low buy-in compared to fedex means a lot less risk. If you have paid $150k for an ISP 'business', that alone is a cost of $100 a week over 25 years, if you can't recoup all of it easily. It sounds like they almost guarantee the profit based on decent management skills.

 

[bacha29]

I made a lot of money on rural routes based on core zone pay. From the literature, it looks like Amazon is offering something similar. My average core zone pay was over $100 a day. And there were relatively easy ways to manipulate the core zone pay. I got mine up from $80 a day to well over $100 a day just by understanding how it worked.

If the ISP has only rural routes, and hasn't been able to get higher compensation for them, it is his own fault. I think the Amazon system will be a lot better than fedex ISP, based on the overall satisfaction that people who are working for Amazon report overall. It looks like a pretty cheap entry price, compared to having to by an ISP ongoing business. $10,000, and no money down vehicle leases means all you need is the ability to provide drivers. And Amazon says they even offer help with that. For qualified. skilled ISPs, if there are any, it should be a natural leap.

Whoa Bucko. Once again ADP will only operate in select areas of the country and the jing weeds ain't one of them . Now based on preliminary information made public selection of an ADP will among many things be based on net worth and free cash flow.As for rates. I don't know about what you've read but based on what I've read the gross revenue rate is $18-25 . That appears to be a gross number not the wage paid to the operator. If that's right then it will mean that ALL operating costs will be paid out of that $18-25 rate.

 

[dmac1]

I wonder what the breakdown will be. How many areas will require 40 trucks and 80 drivers?

The literature says they expect you to have 40 routes at some point, and not at some far off future point. For some, that may mean they only have a couple ADPs in the terminal. The closest warehouse to me 70 miles away would only support maybe 2 total. I expect they would start with one.