Bezos does the expected for once.

dmac1

Well-Known Member
I think this was said. Bezos will not pay more for shipping than he can get sending a package with the cheapest UPS/USPS/FedEx option. Thus your per stop pay will be based on the lowest common denominator. I think that would have to be his model or why do it.
But IF IF IF you think that Bezos plans to continue to make profit from sales, and NOT delivery, he can make deliveries at a cheaper cost. Fedex makes an average profit on every delivery, and Bezos isn't going to be required to make a profit on delivery. He COULD break even, and that profit that FEDEX takes could go toward providing a better paid workforce. Even if Bezos takes half the profit to improve the companies bottom line, it leaves more to pay company drivers, or maybe to provide better vehicles, or even better customer service.

Also, the fact that one less move of the package is required (possibly) will save more money spent. Fedex has to pay drivers to haul trucks to local terminals, and depending on how the ADP system is set up, that cost could be elimkinated.

Amazon has thus far tried to give customers good prices for goods, and pays fairly well. My nephew worked in an Amazon warehouse and made more than he would have working at a fedex ground terminal. If they are paying warehouse workers better than fedex pays, I would think that Amazon drivers will make more than fedex ground drivers. Bezos can buy vehicles cheaper than ANY fedex ISP, and likely has enough buying power to save money on maintenance (tires, brakes, oil, etc), fuel, etc so drivers can make more. Even an ADP with 40 routes will be able to use buying power to get lower prices than the 5 route ISP.
40 routes is going to be cheaper to insure per route as well. There are so many savings potentially available to the ADP as compared to an ISP that drivers should be able to make an appreciable amount over what an ISP can afford to pay.

This is all just speculation for the most part, since this is just being rolled out. Fedex started HD with big promises and withing 2 months changed in Ground division's lap dog. HD was promised to be ONLY home delivery to contractors, with contractors serving one primary service area, and ONLY that one if they chose, and contractors could only work part-time if they wanted. They tried to cover too much area at once with too few contractors, and contractors were immediately required to do more than what they were promised. If Bezos makes the same mistake, and tries to grow faster than contractors are ready, Amazon will have big problems.

So far, the ADPs Amazon is using for PR sound positive, but fedex has contractors, some even on this site, who only tell the positive, so until there is a forum or site for Amazon ADPs and their drivers where they can vent safely, we won't know much.

I shop a LOT on Amazon, and save a LOT of money even with shipping, so I hope it works well and either allows better service or lower prices. Right now, I can track a package from 70 miles away going to a post office distribution center 120 miles away, then back to my local post office, then out the next day, for at least 2 days with multiple sorts, multiple loading, and multiple drivers all being paid for what one driver could do in one hour.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
But IF IF IF you think that Bezos plans to continue to make profit from sales, and NOT delivery, he can make deliveries at a cheaper cost. Fedex makes an average profit on every delivery, and Bezos isn't going to be required to make a profit on delivery. He COULD break even, and that profit that FEDEX takes could go toward providing a better paid workforce. Even if Bezos takes half the profit to improve the companies bottom line, it leaves more to pay company drivers, or maybe to provide better vehicles, or even better customer service.

Also, the fact that one less move of the package is required (possibly) will save more money spent. Fedex has to pay drivers to haul trucks to local terminals, and depending on how the ADP system is set up, that cost could be elimkinated.

Amazon has thus far tried to give customers good prices for goods, and pays fairly well. My nephew worked in an Amazon warehouse and made more than he would have working at a fedex ground terminal. If they are paying warehouse workers better than fedex pays, I would think that Amazon drivers will make more than fedex ground drivers. Bezos can buy vehicles cheaper than ANY fedex ISP, and likely has enough buying power to save money on maintenance (tires, brakes, oil, etc), fuel, etc so drivers can make more. Even an ADP with 40 routes will be able to use buying power to get lower prices than the 5 route ISP.
40 routes is going to be cheaper to insure per route as well. There are so many savings potentially available to the ADP as compared to an ISP that drivers should be able to make an appreciable amount over what an ISP can afford to pay.

This is all just speculation for the most part, since this is just being rolled out. Fedex started HD with big promises and withing 2 months changed in Ground division's lap dog. HD was promised to be ONLY home delivery to contractors, with contractors serving one primary service area, and ONLY that one if they chose, and contractors could only work part-time if they wanted. They tried to cover too much area at once with too few contractors, and contractors were immediately required to do more than what they were promised. If Bezos makes the same mistake, and tries to grow faster than contractors are ready, Amazon will have big problems.

So far, the ADPs Amazon is using for PR sound positive, but fedex has contractors, some even on this site, who only tell the positive, so until there is a forum or site for Amazon ADPs and their drivers where they can vent safely, we won't know much.

I shop a LOT on Amazon, and save a LOT of money even with shipping, so I hope it works well and either allows better service or lower prices. Right now, I can track a package from 70 miles away going to a post office distribution center 120 miles away, then back to my local post office, then out the next day, for at least 2 days with multiple sorts, multiple loading, and multiple drivers all being paid for what one driver could do in one hour.
It all comes down to one question. Do you believe that you have sufficient personal wealth to be deemed qualified to be an ADP and are you or are you not going to pursue a contract?
 

dvalleyjim

Well-Known Member
And, Dmac, What makes you think Bezos is such a great guy that he's going to take some of his profits and give to drivers? I don't see this side of him. He seems to be all about money.
 

Cactus

Just telling it like it is
And, Dmac, What makes you think Bezos is such a great guy that he's going to take some of his profits and give to drivers? I don't see this side of him. He seems to be all about money.
Money and productivity. Not too difficult to see lots of micro-managing with his latest idea.
 

dmac1

Well-Known Member
And, Dmac, What makes you think Bezos is such a great guy that he's going to take some of his profits and give to drivers? I don't see this side of him. He seems to be all about money.
I'm just saying that Bezos SHOULD be able to pay more, not that he will. If service is a concern, paying a little more to retain trained drivers would help. From my own personal experience with Amazon, and everything I've read, customer service is a major concern. I really do expect conditions to be better for Amazon ADP than it is for fedex ISP. Couldn't really be any worse and still be legal, could it??????
 

blacksox

Active Member
Based on Amazon’s projections, “there’s a real possibility that people could find themselves working twice as hard for half the pay vs owning a FedEx route,” said DiNitto, the FedEx delivery business broker. “We won’t know for sure until we see the program flesh out a bit more to see how much time and stress it takes to successfully operate an Amazon logistics business.”
https://geekwire.com/2018/owning-am...lities-tech-giants-new-program-entrepreneurs/
 

zeev

Well-Known Member
Based on Amazon’s projections, “there’s a real possibility that people could find themselves working twice as hard for half the pay vs owning a FedEx route,” said DiNitto, the FedEx delivery business broker. “We won’t know for sure until we see the program flesh out a bit more to see how much time and stress it takes to successfully operate an Amazon logistics business.”
Owning an Amazon delivery business: The risks, rewards and economic realities of the tech giant’s new program for entrepreneurs
Does he mention it takes 200 k to buy a route and you have to buy more than one.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
Based on Amazon’s projections, “there’s a real possibility that people could find themselves working twice as hard for half the pay vs owning a FedEx route,” said DiNitto, the FedEx delivery business broker. “We won’t know for sure until we see the program flesh out a bit more to see how much time and stress it takes to successfully operate an Amazon logistics business.”
https://geekwire.com/2018/owning-am...lities-tech-giants-new-program-entrepreneurs/
Not hard to see what Bezos is thinking. Simply by making you get your own DOT operating authority he thinks that alone will overcome any legal challenges and still enable him to call you an "independent contractor" while maintaining a level of command and control that equals and or exceeds what Fat Freddy has over his so called 'independent service providers".
Keep in mind also that Amazon to their credit makes it crystal clear that creating profit for contractors is a distant second to the drastic reduction in shipping costs.A couple of other facts that are surprising is that you'll lease Amazon specification vehicles but who's going to hold the title on them ? Obviously Amazon and while you pay all operating costs and have your authority numbers on them you can't haul anything other than Z boxes with them.
In addition there's no mention of protected territories proprietary rights or good will along with the fact that you have to drive to the Amazon hub to pick up your load big or small. Conceivably you could drive 50 miles in the morning load up drive back and by that time you're entire morning could be already shot
before you make your first delivery.
The more information that is being trickled out the less attractive the deal looks and the more obvious it becomes that all your doing is doing Bezos a huge favor in addition to the fact that this thing looks ever more like a class action attorney's dream come true.
 

dmac1

Well-Known Member
Looks like Amazon is offering more of almost a franchise opportunity. The testimonials from current ADPs sound good. It would be impossible for it to be any worse than being a fedex ISP. The fact that you don't need to 'buy' territories like anyone wanting to be an ISP must means that you have less risk. If the lease terms are like others I've seen in situations where you drive for the lessor, you basically walk away from the lease when you no longer work for the company. I have a feeling that this would be waaaaay too much for most fedex ISPs to deal with. Huge difference between running 5 routes and 40. Running 40 trucks 7 days a week is a real business management situation, not something you can 'wing' it like I've seen at fedex. There are probably tens of thousands of OTR truckers leasing their rigs from the company they work for, and I haven't heard any huge outroar about class actions over that.
 

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
Looks like Amazon is offering more of almost a franchise opportunity. The testimonials from current ADPs sound good. It would be impossible for it to be any worse than being a fedex ISP. The fact that you don't need to 'buy' territories like anyone wanting to be an ISP must means that you have less risk. If the lease terms are like others I've seen in situations where you drive for the lessor, you basically walk away from the lease when you no longer work for the company. I have a feeling that this would be waaaaay too much for most fedex ISPs to deal with. Huge difference between running 5 routes and 40. Running 40 trucks 7 days a week is a real business management situation, not something you can 'wing' it like I've seen at fedex. There are probably tens of thousands of OTR truckers leasing their rigs from the company they work for, and I haven't heard any huge outroar about class actions over that.
The poster child from Amazon is a guy that was a flex driver. Every Fedex ISP has way more experience than that guy. I have a feeling Amazon has plenty of “suggestions” that would help get anyone going.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
Looks like Amazon is offering more of almost a franchise opportunity. The testimonials from current ADPs sound good. It would be impossible for it to be any worse than being a fedex ISP. The fact that you don't need to 'buy' territories like anyone wanting to be an ISP must means that you have less risk. If the lease terms are like others I've seen in situations where you drive for the lessor, you basically walk away from the lease when you no longer work for the company. I have a feeling that this would be waaaaay too much for most fedex ISPs to deal with. Huge difference between running 5 routes and 40. Running 40 trucks 7 days a week is a real business management situation, not something you can 'wing' it like I've seen at fedex. There are probably tens of thousands of OTR truckers leasing their rigs from the company they work for, and I haven't heard any huge outroar about class actions over that.
First up again there has been no mention regarding the granting of a franchise, goodwill, protected areas or proprietary rights that you are taking for granted to exist. No mention whatsoever. Secondly some if not most owner-ops can turn down loads that are not practical or profitable to take so I don't see the similarity in that case. Furthermore try doing that with Bezos or Fat Freddy.
Again nobody's stopping you from getting in it but finding somebody to hold your hand and support your conclusions?? You won't find it here.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
The poster child from Amazon is a guy that was a flex driver. Every Fedex ISP has way more experience than that guy. I have a feeling Amazon has plenty of “suggestions” that would help get anyone going.
Actually I looked at working for a company out of Texas that was delivering for Amazon in several locations including the Kansas City area. Decided to travel instead. But this was a decent sized company, not a mom-and-pop proprietorship. Looking for 40 rts to be run says that's the kind of company Amazon is looking for, not a guy running ten rts at Ground.
 

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
Actually I looked at working for a company out of Texas that was delivering for Amazon in several locations including the Kansas City area. Decided to travel instead. But this was a decent sized company, not a mom-and-pop proprietorship. Looking for 40 rts to be run says that's the kind of company Amazon is looking for, not a guy running ten rts at Ground.
Actually this is a new program built off the model they created with that old one. I’m guessing they don’t want huge companies that could then have some negotiating leverage. Once you get over 15 or so routes at Ground it doesn’t make much difference. You keep tabs on your management staff and they handle the ops. Amazon wouldn’t advertise their flex driver turned entrepreneur if they wanted big players with experience. They want small fry that they can abuse.
 

dmac1

Well-Known Member
First up again there has been no mention regarding the granting of a franchise, goodwill, protected areas or proprietary rights that you are taking for granted to exist. No mention whatsoever. Secondly some if not most owner-ops can turn down loads that are not practical or profitable to take so I don't see the similarity in that case. Furthermore try doing that with Bezos or Fat Freddy.
Again nobody's stopping you from getting in it but finding somebody to hold your hand and support your conclusions?? You won't find it here.

I have no idea what is wrong with you, but I've stated that I'm not interested, just having a discussion. There is no need to talk about holding my hand, and I haven't asked ANYONE, including you, to support my conclusions. In fact, without a lot more info, I can't reach a conclusion, unlike you, who are reaching a conclusion based on your experience at fedex.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
I have no idea what is wrong with you, but I've stated that I'm not interested, just having a discussion. There is no need to talk about holding my hand, and I haven't asked ANYONE, including you, to support my conclusions. In fact, without a lot more info, I can't reach a conclusion, unlike you, who are reaching a conclusion based on your experience at fedex.
That's the whole problem. You keep jumping to conclusions, assumptions and wishful thinking for which there are not sufficient facts and information at the present time to support them. For the most part a person doesn't know anymore about the operation now then before it was even announced. Just scraps of information and a whole lot of Madison Avenue spin which by design keeps the entire picture from coming into focus.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
Actually this is a new program built off the model they created with that old one. I’m guessing they don’t want huge companies that could then have some negotiating leverage. Once you get over 15 or so routes at Ground it doesn’t make much difference. You keep tabs on your management staff and they handle the ops. Amazon wouldn’t advertise their flex driver turned entrepreneur if they wanted big players with experience. They want small fry that they can abuse.
That's exactly what the whole plan is building up to. This is when you'll start. This is when you stop. This is what you'll drive.This is what you wear This is where you go. This is how you'll do it. etc etc. It's the same damn thing only done even cheaper.
Amazon doesn't want FXG contractors for the same reason we three day 1's were told X wanted rid of us........"you know too much".
 
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