Churches Judging Joel Osteen "On Topic Only"

[Frankie's Friend]

That seems to be true.

Remember the parable about the wide path and the narrow one.
Look around.
You know it's true.

 

[Covemastah]

Jesus forgave the thief on the cross to the right , a man who broke a commandments , said he would be in heaven , so I think an athiest on his final breathe asking for forgiveness will also be forgiven !!! JMO

 

[bbsam]

Why was Solomon so blessed (rich)?
How about Job? He was extremely wealthy .

You can have riches as long as riches dont have you.

"To whom much has been given much will be expected".
Think about that one.

I think you need to jump into the New Testament.

 

[Frankie's Friend]

Listen to what people say.
Do you hear people using Krishna's or Buddha's name in vain?
Whose name do you hear people take in vain?

So what does that tell you?

Even if you dont believe in the Bible account of the present "age" you can see and hear the result of two kingdoms with two different groups of citizens ruled by different powers and principalities.

Our of a persons heart their mouth speaks.

We cant deny the origin of who you serve when you take stock in the things we do and the things we say.

 

[Frankie's Friend]

I think you need to jump into the New Testament.

That's your opinion.

 

[bbsam]

That's your opinion.

Well yes.

Judaism and Christianity are not the same religion.

 

[Frankie's Friend]

Well yes.

Judaism and Christianity are not the same religion.

Same God.

Let's look at the New Testament to make you feel better. These are just some of the people were wealthy and gave to support Jesus's ministry and weren't rebuked by Jesus for having money:

These are a few. There's no doubt that many people donated to help care for the disciples and Jesus needs. I cant find anywhere in the New Testament where Jesus asked to take up an offering for his ministry.

Since he knew the heart and idolatry of people he told the young rich ruler to give his wealth to the poor and come follow him knowing the conviction and battle they'd face giving up their wealth because it was what they trusted in for their stability, security, and power.

God wants his believers to prosper and be in good health but you cant serve two masters. If you trust in riches more than trusting God for your future it is written that it is hard to get into heaven.

Timothy 6:10 spells it out pretty plainly if you like New Testament.

Finally, remember the soldiers at the foot of the cross were gambling for the spoils of the men dying above them.

They valued Jesus's clothing because is was unusually well made. They never said anything about a Rolex watch but Jesus was well dressed.

You can own money. Money should never own you.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Why was Solomon so blessed (rich)?
How about Job? He was extremely wealthy .

You can have riches as long as riches dont have you.

"To whom much has been given much will be expected".
Think about that one.

Luke 12:42-48

"42The Lord answered, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? 43 It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. 44 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45 But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

47 “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows.48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked."

In context, Jesus is not talking about wealth, he is talking about capability, understanding, and knowledge. Solomon came into his great wealth because he first sought wisdom.

Earlier in the chapter Jesus warns against greed:

"15 Then he said to them, 'Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; life does not consist in an abundance of possessions.'”

I did not say being wealthy was wrong. But Jesus taught again and again that being wealthy was not the purpose to life, and even said it was very difficult for the rich man to get into the kingdom of God.

Matthew 19:23-24

"23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, 'Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.'"

People like to try and sidestep this one by talking about a gate in the wall of Jerusalem called the eye of the needle, but that's a pretty lame interpretation. The disciples followed up that teaching with asking "who, then, can be saved?" Jesus answered "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible". Jesus was telling them that it is not through our actions that we are saved, which is in direct opposition to the old testament doctrine. He was not saying being rich precluded you from salvation, he was simply using that situation to show that everyone sins and no one is capable of saving themselves.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

I have been taught it is Grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

Period.

I view Joel Osteen as a brother in Christ.

Imperfect yes, but a brother in Christ never the less.

He is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Not saying he is irredeemable, but he is leading people away from the Truth with his false teachings. It is not up to me to judge his heart, but I can certainly use my discernment in recognizing someone who is teaching incorrectly, and profiting off of doing so.

 

[Frankie's Friend]

He is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Not saying he is irredeemable, but he is leading people away from the Truth with his false teachings. It is not up to me to judge his heart, but I can certainly use my discernment in recognizing someone who is teaching incorrectly, and profiting off of doing so.

Ummm...
Examples please. Blanket condemnation doesnt prove anything without factual examples.

Btw: the rich man and that went to hell and begged for a drop of water for his tongue didnt go there because he was rich. He went to hell because of his spiritual condition. Greed and pride are complicit factors in many peoples lives today but few are rich. Most people reject forgiveness but they dont know it will cost them eternal damnation.

Bob Dylan said "you're gonna serve somebody".

In context Jesus was talking about talents (also a weight of money) as what you have been given or blessed with.

"Give and it will be given to you, pressed down, and shaken".
Who said that?
I thought so.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Ummm...
Examples please. Blanket condemnation doesnt prove anything without factual examples.

Btw: the rich man and that went to hell and begged for a drop of water for his tongue didnt go there because he was rich. He went to hell because of his spiritual condition. Greed and pride are complicit factors in many peoples lives today but few are rich. Most people reject forgiveness but they dont know it will cost them eternal damnation.

Bob Dylan said "you're gonna serve somebody".

In context Jesus was talking about talents (also a weight of money) as what you have been given or blessed with.

"Give and it will be given to you, pressed down, and shaken".
Who said that?
I thought so.

You're mixing up parables, and seem to be ignoring that I already acknowledged several times that being wealthy in and of itself is not wrong or sinful. Joel Osteen openly preaches the prosperity gospel, and the prosperity gospel does not line up with the teachings of Jesus. He tells his followers that God will make them rich and famous if they just pray for it, but proverbs says better the poor who's walk is blameless than the rich whose ways are perverse.

Jesus commands us to watch out for false prophets, and you can tell them by their teaching. It's not about judging another person, but anyone can claim to be a christian, and we are just to follow them because of that claim? No, we are to seek Him, and when we do we will know who teaches lies and will not be lead astray.

 

[Frankie's Friend]

You're mixing up parables, and seem to be ignoring that I already acknowledged several times that being wealthy in and of itself is not wrong or sinful. Joel Osteen openly preaches the prosperity gospel, and the prosperity gospel does not line up with the teachings of Jesus. He tells his followers that God will make them rich and famous if they just pray for it, but proverbs says better the poor who's walk is blameless than the rich whose ways are perverse.

Jesus commands us to watch out for false prophets, and you can tell them by their teaching. It's not about judging another person, but anyone can claim to be a christian, and we are just to follow them because of that claim? No, we are to seek Him, and when we do we will know who teaches lies and will not be lead astray.

Please, again, quote or post some of Joel's messages he's broadcasted saying that.

And what about the rich man who's walk is blameless? What is wrong with this picture?

God protected the assets of Job because he was an upright, blameless man who feared God.
Satan even complained that God put a hedge around him, his family, and all of his possesions. The devil couldn't touch Job's property until he challenged God to quit protecting him.

Your story is true but not totally accurste.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

Well that’s what I mean by selling. Literally selling.


Why doesn’t he self publish his books and sell them at cost?

Why don't you work for free and have the homeless work your farm?

 

[Old Man Jingles]

He tells his followers that God will make them rich and famous if they just pray for it, but proverbs says better the poor who's walk is blameless than the rich whose ways are perverse.

The best is to be the rich who's walk is blameless.
And the worst is the poor whose ways are perverse.

 

[Brownslave688]

Why don't you work for free and have the homeless work your farm?

Because I don’t pretend to be a man of god.



Actually many times while my wife is trying to get me to give money to beggars I comment “I have a ton of work they can do at the farm I’ll gladly pay them” she then gives me a look of disgust and calls me an usually.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

Because I don’t pretend to be a man of god.



Actually many times while my wife is trying to get me to give money to beggars I comment “I have a ton of work they can do at the farm I’ll gladly pay them” she then gives me a look of disgust and calls me an usually.

Justs sos you knows, she's right!

 

[Old Man Jingles]

I attend an Evangelical Christian church and I am troubled by some of the comments that I hear about Joel Osteen.

I hear really bad un-Christian like statements about him that just has not been my experience. I really like him and view his ministry as a solid Christian ministry.

Some of the negative comments even come from the Pastor of the church.

Any experiences, thoughts or opinions you'd like to share for discussion?

He is a good person and does more to comfort and help God's children than any of these naysayers on here.
Satan works to bring down his enemies through negativity and self-righteousness.
Even Satan understands only God has the right to judge others in his name.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Please, again, quote or post some of Joel's messages he's broadcasted saying that.

And what about the rich man who's walk is blameless? What is wrong with this picture?

God protected the assets of Job because he was an upright, blameless man who feared God.
Satan even complained that God put a hedge around him, his family, and all of his possesions. The devil couldn't touch Job's property until he challenged God to quit protecting him.

Your story is true but not totally accurste.

Within the first 5 minutes he misquotes scripture twice, while failing to give chapter and verse. This entire sermon is simply about having a better life through positive speaking, which has no scriptural basis. He has a spinning golden globe behind him, (no cross to be seen anywhere) which is a clear symbol about what he really stands for. Twice more he misquotes scripture between minutes 10 and 20. Right around minute 24 he takes a page from Stuart Smalley with positive affirmation.

His quote about being snared by your words comes from Proverbs 6. It is about making a foolish promise, and how to deliver yourself from it. It's not about tripping yourself up with negative words. This is only one sermon, most of what else I've seen is merely self-help non-sense masquerading as biblical teaching. He cherry picks pieces of verses to lend credence to his teaching, but he utterly misses the point of the scriptures he references.

By the way, the book of Job was written in the style of fictional literature of the time. But you keep trying to make it sound like I'm saying something I am not, i.e. a straw man argument. I am not saying it is bad or sinful to be rich. The rich man who was blameless asked Jesus what else he was missing. Jesus told him to sell all his possessions and follow him. The rich man walked away, saddened by the response. Jesus did that to illustrate that none of us are perfect, like him, and that our salvation is only possible with God, not with man. Don't know how much more clearly I can spell it out.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

He is a good person and does more to comfort and help God's children than any of these naysayers on here.
Satan works to bring down his enemies through negativity and self-righteousness.
Even Satan understands only God has the right to judge others in his name.

You feel free to follow Joel. I will follow Jesus.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

You feel free to follow Joel. I will follow Jesus.

I follow Jesus and no one or nothing else.