Day after Thanksgiving driving

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Our center posted the list of those who would be working Black Friday yesterday. They had neglected to include any of the newer drivers on the list, effectively forcing all of the lower seniority FT drivers to work. I didn't hear it but I guess one of them caused quite the ruckus when he saw the list which, I'm being told, is in the process of being revised.

Our center manager had initially said that we would be paid time and a half, as this is what was paid in Vermont, but has since recanted and those working, whether forced or volunteer, will be paid straight time for hours worked, in addition to the 8 hours of holiday pay. Even at straight time, it is such easy money that if I weren't on vacation (and out of town) I would work.

 

[Bubblehead]

How would you argue that a clerk isn't support personnel?

Or the car wash.

I'm not sure what you mean. The company failed to discuss the amount of support personnel with the local therefore procedure was not followed. He got paid double time in all prior years. The company failed to follow protocol.

Believe me, I am full of fight and love to argue, but to try and convince a panel that a clerk isn't support personnel?
I am familiar with the part of Article 40 which talks about the "procedure" you refer to.
I simply don't see the point in trying to split hairs with this argument.
A business agent has to carefully choose which battles to wage in order to hold the company accountable, while maintaining a certain degree of credibility within the panel system.
In this instance, I think I have to agree with your BA.
This wasn't a worthwhile fight and it is quite possible that this clerk was overpaid in previous years.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Last year our clerk worked it and the company paid him straight time.

He filed a grievance and it was found that management failed to discuss the number of support personnel with the local union. When it went to the hearing the BA said to just let it go and the clerk got screwed out of his double time pay.

That's BS.

The whole purpose of that language.... is to prevent the company from over-scheduling the number of employees needed.

The penalty for not reviewing their plan with the Local union.... is forfeiting any claim, to pay straight time to air support employees.


All I can say, is wow....

How would you argue that a clerk isn't support personnel?

Or the car wash.

Both classifications would be air support.

In the central region you are guaranteed eight if you ask for it.

Technically speaking....

You don't have to "request" your hourly guarantee. Once you punch the clock, you are entitled to it.


The company really needs documentation, from the people that are waiving their guarantee for actual hours.

Just so they can't come back (after the fact) and file a grievance for their guarantee. That's really the purpose of the sign up sheet.


Another reason, the company has to review with the Local their staffing needs for the day....

Is so the company doesn't schedule an excess number of part-timers and then realize they aren't needed.

Because, after all.... part-timers don't have a "show up" guarantee if they are not put to work.



​-Bug-

 

[chuchu]

That's BS.

The whole purpose of that language.... is to prevent the company from over-scheduling the number of employees needed.

The penalty for not reviewing their plan with the Local union.... is forfeiting any claim, to pay straight time to air support employees.


All I can say, is wow....

-Bug-

That was our position as well. Never got a chance to argue it.

How many times has the company thrown claims out because of a technical omission? Can't count them all.

If the clerk had known what the plan was before hand he wouldn't have worked it. He'd stayed home with his family.

 

[Bubblehead]

In the central region you are guaranteed eight if you ask for it.

​

Technically speaking....

You don't have to "request" your hourly guarantee. Once you punch the clock, you are entitled to it.


The company really needs documentation, from the people that are waiving their guarantee for actual hours.

Just so they can't come back (after the fact) and file a grievance for their guarantee. That's really the purpose of the sign up sheet.


Another reason, the company has to review with the Local their staffing needs for the day....

Is so the company doesn't schedule an excess number of part-timers and then realize they aren't needed.

Because, after all.... part-timers don't have a "show up" guarantee if they are not put to work.



​-Bug-

This is true for most days, but these specific holidays are the exception under Art 40 which states:

(2) When the scheduling needs cannot be met using the above provision, the
Employer shall have the right to force part-time air drivers and then full-time
air drivers to work starting in reverse order of seniority. If after
exhausting the above steps scheduling needs are still not met, the Employer
shall offer the work in seniority order within the package driver
classification. If more drivers are still needed the reverse seniority order
concept will be used for package drivers. Package car drivers who work on a
holiday may make a written request for an eight (8) hour guarantee. Such
written request shall be made the last work day prior to the holiday. All time
worked by these drivers on a holiday will be paid at the Supplemental holiday rate.

 

[Anonymous 10]

All I was talking about were package drivers and feeder drivers.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

​


This is true for most days, but these specific holidays are the exception under Art 40 which states:

(2) When the scheduling needs cannot be met using the above provision, the
Employer shall have the right to force part-time air drivers and then full-time
air drivers to work starting in reverse order of seniority. If after
exhausting the above steps scheduling needs are still not met, the Employer
shall offer the work in seniority order within the package driver
classification. If more drivers are still needed the reverse seniority order
concept will be used for package drivers. Package car drivers who work on a
holiday may make a written request for an eight (8) hour guarantee. Such
written request shall be made the last work day prior to the holiday. All time
worked by these drivers on a holiday will be paid at the Supplemental holiday rate.

Past practice.... notwithstanding.



​-Bug-

 

[Bubblehead]

Past practice.... notwithstanding.



​-Bug-

I get that; as our past practice is to notate on the signup sheet if we want our 8 hr guarantee, which is not technically what is stated contractually.
I still maintain a package car driver would be hard pressed to come in day of show and demand their 8 hr guarantee in light of the language in Art 40.

 

[Anonymous 10]

I get that; as our past practice is to notate on the signup sheet if we want our 8 hr guarantee, which is not technically what is stated contractually.
I still maintain a package car driver would be hard pressed to come in day of show and demand their 8 hr guarantee in light of the language in Art 40.

In our local we have to request eight hours the day before at the latest.

 

[Stonefish]

Past practice.... notwithstanding.



​-Bug-

If you are trying to imply that past practice over rules the contract you are wrong. A past practice can not violate contractual language. The language is very clear about 8 hour guarantee on a holiday.
One can't make the argument the company has overpaid them $10 per hour for the past 10 years and that is a past practice so they have to continue. It works the other way also.
The language is also clear Article 40 supersedes all.
If a package car driver works on a holiday in the Central they receive double time for all hours worked on the holiday plus 8 hours holiday pay. The must make the request for 8 hours in writing the work day prior to the holiday to have an 8 hour guarantee.

 

[Stonefish]

I get that; as our past practice is to notate on the signup sheet if we want our 8 hr guarantee, which is not technically what is stated contractually.
I still maintain a package car driver would be hard pressed to come in day of show and demand their 8 hr guarantee in light of the language in Art 40.

A package car driver would not be hard pressed to get 8 hour guarantee they don't have one if they don't follow the language in the contract.
I guess what I am saying is for once you're right just kidding big guy

 

[BigUnionGuy]

If you are trying to imply that past practice over rules the contract you are wrong. A past practice can not violate contractual language. The language is very clear about 8 hour guarantee on a holiday.
One can't make the argument the company has overpaid them $10 per hour for the past 10 years and that is a past practice so they have to continue. It works the other way also.
The language is also clear Article 40 supersedes all.
If a package car driver works on a holiday in the Central they receive double time for all hours worked on the holiday plus 8 hours holiday pay. The must make the request for 8 hours in writing the work day prior to the holiday to have an 8 hour guarantee.

You are absolutely correct.

In my Local, a grievance was settled (years ago).... when one of the center managers posted a signup sheet without a option to choose

if the driver wanted their 8 hour guarantee or actual hours. I know, because I was the pkg car steward at the time.... and filed the grievance.


The grievance was settled on a "non-presedent" basis.... because that was our past practice.

So.... to say it can't be done.... I would disagree.

Working as a BA.... I signed off on grievances before, the same way.

Mainly.... because the Labor guy agreed in principal.... But, didn't want any future liability in the issue.


I should have clarified.... it was a Local issue.



​-Bug-

 

[Stonefish]

You are absolutely correct.

In my Local, a grievance was settled (years ago).... when one of the center managers posted a signup sheet without a option to choose

if the driver wanted their 8 hour guarantee or actual hours. I know, because I was the pkg car steward at the time.... and filed the grievance.


The grievance was settled on a "non-presedent" basis.... because that was our past practice.

So.... to say it can't be done.... I would disagree.

Working as a BA.... I signed off on grievances before, the same way.

Mainly.... because the Labor guy agreed in principal.... But, didn't want any future liability in the issue.


I should have clarified.... it was a Local issue.



​-Bug-

We agree if you sign for 8 hours or hours only on the sheet you would be requesting your 8 hour guarantee prior to the holiday. What I thought you meant was you could just come to work on that holiday and ask for your 8 hours.

​Why aren't you an agent anymore??

 

[happybob]

There are no guarantees on Black Friday.

Read Article 40 again Dave. Sounds like your guys are getting screwed. If you(full timer) want the guarantee you sign up for it and get it. It is also what ever your supplemental language has, as far as time and a half or straight time....plus the holiday pay.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Read Article 40 again Dave. Sounds like your guys are getting screwed. If you(full timer) want the guarantee you sign up for it and get it. It is also what ever your supplemental language has, as far as time and a half or straight time....plus the holiday pay.

Unlike the rest of the year you have to request your 8---even then they will try their best to talk you out of it as they want to get home too.

 

[happybob]

Unlike the rest of the year you have to request your 8---even then they will try their best to talk you out of it as they want to get home too.

I could care less if they wait until I get in or go home. That's their choice and my choice will always be I want my guarantee.

 

[Stonefish]

I could care less if they wait until I get in or go home. That's their choice and my choice will always be I want my guarantee.

Thats right 8 hours of double time plus holiday pay and it's an easy day

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

Thats right 8 hours of double time plus holiday pay and it's an easy day

Ill take the 8hr paid day and lounge around. I get enough OT the rest of the year...I want as many days away from these crazy people as possible!

 

[Stonefish]

Ill take the 8hr paid day and lounge around. I get enough OT the rest of the year...I want as many days away from these crazy people as possible!

I hear that

 

[Bubblehead]

Thats right 8 hours of double time plus holiday pay and it's an easy day

​I'll be there for 8 hrs Friday and New Years Eve as well.