DIAD GPS

[soberups]

What qualifies as off route? Would driving to a restaurant on lunch break that’s a mile off route be considered going off route?

There is no hard and fast rule. One mile is a number I hear thrown about, but it is a guideline only and isnt really applicable to rural routes. A guy whose route covers 250 miles a day in Death Valley or rural Wyoming is probably going to have to go more than one mile "off route" in order to find a restroom or a place to eat. The people who have gotten in trouble for being off route were the ones who lied about where they were and why they were there.

 

[ol'browneye]

It is amazing how the philosophy on this has changed since I first started working here. My kids used to play youth hockey and the rink was about 3 miles off of my area but I used to take my lunch there so that I could watch them practice. The center team knew and could have cared less just as long as I kept making my numbers. My daughter played HS softball and I used to stop on my way back to the center and watch as much of her games as I could and, again, they didn't mind as long as the numbers were there.

So are you saying the driver who runs two hours late everyday would get pulled in to the office and eventually reprimanded for driving 3 miles off route to watch his kids play hockey or his daughter play softball? Nowvoyager reminded us in a post that mngmt lets a lot of stuff slide if they like you or you run scratch. I've seen a driver get the okay to take his diad home and clock out because he still had lunch left at the end of the day. (this is at a satelite) "just bring it back early in the morning and don't spread it around what you did." And another driver get a warning letter for doing the same thing. The difference-the supervisor liked the first driver and the second driver is 50 years old, has had back problems, and usually runs over 2 hours late.

I will answer my own question. Yes that kind of thing happens everyday. It's sad when mngmt pulls that stuff. The consistency with which mngmt enforces it's own policies is ridiculous to non-existant. This philosophy still hasn't changed. They will use this GPS technology to get who they want to get and let other drivers slide.

I think many people overlook the wording of the contract. If I am wrong someone please correct me, but I think it says something like "No one can be disciplined using the GPS technology for the first offense. What's to keep mngmt from giving every driver a warning letter for the first minor gps infraction and then firing them for the second?

I think soberups says it best. Keep your nose clean and you don't have to fear GPS.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

So are you saying the driver who runs two hours late everyday would get pulled in to the office and eventually reprimanded for driving 3 miles off route to watch his kids play hockey or his daughter play softball?

Yes.

 

[browniehound]

I am a little worried about the GPS. I am THE 'master' of alternate routes to every town if my center. The is so much traffic in my area it drives me crazy.

So on the way out, I take a back road that takes 27 minutes from 'leave building' (this includes sitting in line waiting to leave the grounds) to first stop. If I didn't do this, 4 out of 5 days I would sit on the interstate in traffic which causes a 40-45 minute ride from 'leave building' to first stop. If there is no traffic, the interstate takes me 22 minutes. I've come to the conclusion that I'm better off takeing the 'back road'. First off, its less miles and no traffic. It may take 5 minutes longer, but I always know to the minute how long it will take for me to get on route. The interstate is a crap-shoot, it could take as little as 22 minutes or as much as 45+ minutes.

Can I get disciplined for taking alternate routes coming from MY judgement? These are logical routes. Its not the interstate but are always state routes and always headed directly to route or to building.

I'm guessing its OK, but you never know from some of the inbeciles (talking about people outside the center that don't know anything about me or the center), can I be fired for taking the alternate routes?

 

[soberups]

I'm guessing its OK, but you never know from some of the inbeciles (talking about people outside the center that don't know anything about me or the center), can I be fired for taking the alternate routes?

No, as long as the "alternate route" isnt going 50 miles in the wrong directon or something crazy like that. The worst thing that could happen is that they could intstruct you on what route to driveand you would have to work as directed. You dont need to fear being fired as long as you have an honest and reasonable explanation for what you are doing.

 

[soberups]

I am a little worried about the GPS. I am THE 'master' of alternate routes to every town if my center. The is so much traffic in my area it drives me crazy.

So on the way out, I take a back road that takes 27 minutes from 'leave building' (this includes sitting in line waiting to leave the grounds) to first stop. If I didn't do this, 4 out of 5 days I would sit on the interstate in traffic which causes a 40-45 minute ride from 'leave building' to first stop. If there is no traffic, the interstate takes me 22 minutes. I've come to the conclusion that I'm better off takeing the 'back road'. First off, its less miles and no traffic. It may take 5 minutes longer, but I always know to the minute how long it will take for me to get on route. The interstate is a crap-shoot, it could take as little as 22 minutes or as much as 45+ minutes.

Can I get disciplined for taking alternate routes coming from MY judgement? These are logical routes. Its not the interstate but are always state routes and always headed directly to route or to building.

I'm guessing its OK, but you never know from some of the inbeciles (talking about people outside the center that don't know anything about me or the center), can I be fired for taking the alternate routes?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I would hope that your center team would encourage you to find alternate routes to reach your delivery area, especially one that cuts your commute time nearly in half.

 

[pretzel_man]

I am a little worried about the GPS. I am THE 'master' of alternate routes to every town if my center. The is so much traffic in my area it drives me crazy.

So on the way out, I take a back road that takes 27 minutes from 'leave building' (this includes sitting in line waiting to leave the grounds) to first stop. If I didn't do this, 4 out of 5 days I would sit on the interstate in traffic which causes a 40-45 minute ride from 'leave building' to first stop. If there is no traffic, the interstate takes me 22 minutes. I've come to the conclusion that I'm better off takeing the 'back road'. First off, its less miles and no traffic. It may take 5 minutes longer, but I always know to the minute how long it will take for me to get on route. The interstate is a crap-shoot, it could take as little as 22 minutes or as much as 45+ minutes.

Can I get disciplined for taking alternate routes coming from MY judgement? These are logical routes. Its not the interstate but are always state routes and always headed directly to route or to building.

I'm guessing its OK, but you never know from some of the inbeciles (talking about people outside the center that don't know anything about me or the center), can I be fired for taking the alternate routes?

Brownie:

I've used GPS with lots of drivers. Based on what you said, I "may" ask the driver why he / she took the alternate route. I think that's my responsibility.

When a driver gives me an answer like you did, I thank him / her for making a good decision.

With all the routes I've reviewed using GPS, your concern has never been an issue.

I'm sure that somewhere in the world, there will be a supervisor that uses this improperly. I'll apologize ahead of time for that.

From my experience so far, it has only helped the honest managers and drivers.

P-Man

 

[filthpig]

We had a nice PCM concerning this today. Joe Schmuck, our building mgr., said they will be following people around and firing them if caught padding miles and such. He said "it was just something to think about". What an ass-hat.

 

[filiperuvian]

hey browniehound, one of the space and vis. methods is 'take the path of least resistance' so my opinion is that it isn't much of an issue, but i'm only a 4 year driver.

oh and did someone post something about doing 250 miles on a death vally route? holy crap i can't even take 20 minutes in my old p12...that thing is a rolling oven

 

[55andout?]

Now if you can get the 90% to actually TAKE their lunch. Even better, get them to take it in the middle of the day instead of at the end.

Oh they are taking it....its easy to see on the ODSe...we have the driver ods in when they are on lunch and sure enough the truck doesnt move until they tell us they are off of lunch. Why would you record a lunch of substancial time and not take it? It would be like giving money away. It just helps us identify those that are stealing time. Most dont but some do, and then its the guys who are doing it right that suffer cause of it.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

....Why would you record a lunch of substantial time and not take it? It would be like giving money away.

It's called running and gunning and it happens all the time. We are required to enter our lunch/break times, and they must total 45/10 mins respectively, but there is nothing in place (yet) to actually check that there is no work being done during these breaks, other than going through delivery records which they won't do as this is actually in their favor. You are exactly right in that these drivers are giving money away but they prefer family time to overtime so that is a choice that they are making. I take my full 45 and 10 but choose to take them together after I finish my deliveries and first round of P/U stops. I know contractually we are obligated to take the break between the first and third hour and the lunch between the third and fifth but they only care that we take and record the break/lunch sometime during the day.

 

[longlunchguy]

Oh they are taking it....its easy to see on the ODSe...we have the driver ods in when they are on lunch and sure enough the truck doesnt move until they tell us they are off of lunch. Why would you record a lunch of substancial time and not take it? It would be like giving money away. It just helps us identify those that are stealing time. Most dont but some do, and then its the guys who are doing it right that suffer cause of it.

People are recording lunch and not taking it for the same reason they're in their car 30 minutes before start time massaging the loads. I understand giving the company their money's worth... I just don't understand working for free, either at lunch or before start time. OH! NICE AVATAR!

 

[trplnkl]

UpState, the parameters that you posted as to when and how much meal/break times are to be taken at not true in all supplements. In the southern, it is one hour meal time to be taken, the times are "preferred suggestions" not carved in stone. Everyday we have 3-5 drivers taking the las 30 minutes of meal time at the building.
Of course it is technically lying when one puts in a meal time and continues to work, it also is giving away money. The only time this will be used against a driver (because it actually helps the company) is when they (management) gets pissed at you for whatever reason. I have heard many times, when a driver has made a sup or center manager mad..." Let's check his records". That means they pretty well know that no one exactly follows ALL the rules, ALL the time. We once had a center manager that spent most of everyday checking driver records looking for things done wrong. HE was easily pissed off.
When I say, "no one exactly follows ALL the rules, ALL the time", I mean that in many situations if you are following one rule, your are violating another. That may be where to old saying " Damned if I do, damned if I don't" originated.

 

[trplnkl]

Oh they are taking it....its easy to see on the ODSe...we have the driver ods in when they are on lunch and sure enough the truck doesnt move until they tell us they are off of lunch. Why would you record a lunch of substancial time and not take it? It would be like giving money away. It just helps us identify those that are stealing time. Most dont but some do, and then its the guys who are doing it right that suffer cause of it.

Please explain to me how a driver giving his meal time or sorting his car before start time can possibly be considered as stealing time?
If a driver puts in his meal time from noon-1300 yet continues to deliver, and later in the day spends 15-20 minutes visiting with a customer, do you think that is stealing time?

 

[HEFFERNAN]

Oh they are taking it....its easy to see on the ODSe...we have the driver ods in when they are on lunch and sure enough the truck doesnt move until they tell us they are off of lunch. Why would you record a lunch of substancial time and not take it? It would be like giving money away. It just helps us identify those that are stealing time. Most dont but some do, and then its the guys who are doing it right that suffer cause of it.

I don't know how that would work in my center. We don't have to type in when we take lunch until we punch out. So they would just see me sitting there soaking some shade.

 

[dilligaf]

Please explain to me how a driver giving his meal time or sorting his car before start time can possibly be considered as stealing time?
If a driver puts in his meal time from noon-1300 yet continues to deliver, and later in the day spends 15-20 minutes visiting with a customer, do you think that is stealing time?

Not necessarily stealing to but it is falsifing company documents. If you spend 15/20 mins talking to a customer then CYA and put it in when you actually do it. This is an integrity issue, and we all know that you can lose a job by lying. Even if it wasn't intended. It isn't worth the risk.
Sorting before start time can be serious problem if you are injured while doing it. All the company has to do is claim you weren't on the clock and there go your work comp benefits right out the window.

 

[trplnkl]

Not necessarily stealing to but it is falsifing company documents. If you spend 15/20 mins talking to a customer then CYA and put it in when you actually do it. This is an integrity issue, and we all know that you can lose a job by lying. Even if it wasn't intended. It isn't worth the risk.
Sorting before start time can be serious problem if you are injured while doing it. All the company has to do is claim you weren't on the clock and there go your work comp benefits right out the window.

We , collectively, as drivers are instructed nearly everyday to falsify some kind of company documents, mainly to cover the center manager's A. Yet when we falsify , even if by accident, our job is on the line and will be accused of stealing.
If you say something that is not true but you believe it to be true, that is not lying nor an integrity issue but will be treated as such. UPS is without doubt the most hypocritical organization I have ever worked for. I know 1%er bikers with more integrity.

 

[dilligaf]

We , collectively, as drivers are instructed nearly everyday to falsify some kind of company documents, mainly to cover the center manager's A. Yet when we falsify , even if by accident, our job is on the line and will be accused of stealing.
If you say something that is not true but you believe it to be true, that is not lying nor an integrity issue but will be treated as such. UPS is without doubt the most hypocritical organization I have ever worked for. I know 1%er bikers with more integrity.

You are absolutely correct on that TRPL. It's a sad state of affairs.

 

[IWorkAsDirected]

Oh they are taking it....its easy to see on the ODSe...we have the driver ods in when they are on lunch and sure enough the truck doesnt move until they tell us they are off of lunch. Why would you record a lunch of substancial time and not take it? It would be like giving money away. It just helps us identify those that are stealing time. Most dont but some do, and then its the guys who are doing it right that suffer cause of it.

We had a driver with a request 8 and he asked if he could skip lunch (he wanted to get to his son's ball game) The supervisor said and I quote "Well, you have to show a half hour lunch, but what some of the drivers do is drive during their lunch" So he is suggesting the driver be dishonest so he can make it. This sup needs to go he is constantly putting drivers at risk of losing their jobs with all kinds of stuff like this. Some of the new guys are going to take his advice and be screwed.