Do you donate to drive?

Thebrownblob

Well-Known Member
Labor is fungible. When labor surplus is created, say, in the construction industry (which is mostly illegal) those who would be in construction get pushed into other fields, like trucking or other teamster jobs.

An artificial illegal surplus in one area has the same effect, whether they are trucking or not.
But you said taking teamster jobs? I don’t see how that’s possible providing proof of citizenship is required to work at UPS and most teamster jobs. So if they are unable to do teenster jobs how would they be benefiting the teamsters? They can’t get dues from people who are not in the union.
 

wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
But you said taking teamster jobs? I don’t see how that’s possible providing proof of citizenship is required to work at UPS and most teamster jobs. So if they are unable to do teenster jobs how would they be benefiting the teamsters? They can’t get dues from people who are not in the union.
Yes, taking teamster jobs. When they take construction jobs, those construction workers go elsewhere. It is the exact same thing as if they took it themselves.
I literally just explained it. If they work for UPS or if they don't, the effect on Teamsters is the exact same.
 

Thebrownblob

Well-Known Member
Yes, taking teamster jobs. When they take construction jobs, those construction workers go elsewhere. It is the exact same thing as if they took it themselves.
I literally just explained it. If they work for UPS or if they don't, the effect on Teamsters is the exact same.
Sorry but I don’t agree with you you’re really stretching on this one.
It’s fair enough to say illegal immigration is a problem but the teamsters have nothing to do with that. It benefits them in no way.
 

UnionStrong

Sorry, but I don’t care anymore.
Sorry but I don’t agree with you you’re really stretching on this one.
It’s fair enough to say illegal immigration is a problem but the teamsters have nothing to do with that. It benefits them in no way.
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wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
Sorry but I don’t agree with you you’re really stretching on this one.
It’s fair enough to say illegal immigration is a problem but the teamsters have nothing to do with that. It benefits them in no way.
I agree it doesn't benefit the Teamsters. But the Teamsters DO endorse illegal immigration.


It's right there on their main page. They want to legalize tens of millions of competitors for labor, and bring in more.

When any labor comes in, it pushes labor markets around so that the supply is increased in Teamster jobs whether or not the illegals themselves take the jobs.
 

Thebrownblob

Well-Known Member
I agree it doesn't benefit the Teamsters. But the Teamsters DO endorse illegal immigration.


It's right there on their main page. They want to legalize tens of millions of competitors for labor, and bring in more.

When any labor comes in, it pushes labor markets around so that the supply is increased in Teamster jobs whether or not the illegals themselves take the jobs.
So then you’re saying Teamsters are willing Dupes. That’s quite a bit different than saying they’re looking to replace American workers. And at this point I can tell you the American workforce isn’t very interested in working. I don’t have all the answers as to why that is but I know it isn’t just about the money. There’s thousands of unfilled jobs that pay upwards of $30 an hour in my city and no one to fill them. Americans are doing a fine job of replacing theirselves.
 

wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
So then you’re saying Teamsters are willing Dupes. That’s quite a bit different than saying they’re looking to replace American workers. And at this point I can tell you the American workforce isn’t very interested in working. I don’t have all the answers as to why that is but I know it isn’t just about the money. There’s thousands of unfilled jobs that pay upwards of $30 an hour in my city and no one to fill them. Americans are doing a fine job of replacing theirselves.
Yes, the members are willing dupes, and the leadership is just a bunch of radical democrats. Unions were ALWAYS against bringing in more competition, legal or illegal. That is, until the last decade or two.
They endorse the candidates who made all the international trade deals, and all the candidates that leave our border open, and all the candidates that want to legalize hordes of new labor.
Yes, they're stupid.
 

Thebrownblob

Well-Known Member
Yes, the members are willing dupes, and the leadership is just a bunch of radical democrats. Unions were ALWAYS against bringing in more competition, legal or illegal. That is, until the last decade or two.
They endorse the candidates who made all the international trade deals, and all the candidates that leave our border open, and all the candidates that want to legalize hordes of new labor.
Yes, they're stupid.
Just curiously which Republican was not for him TPP or NAFTA? Up till Trump, seems like they’re been a lack of antiglobalist to vote for for many many years.
 

wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
Just curiously which Republican was not for him TPP or NAFTA? Up till Trump
Many Republicans are for free trade agreements. Most are.

I didn't actually say anything about Republicans being better on trade. I said the union is made up of hardcore democrats who will endorse free trade candidates and massive illegal immigration, even though both are against members' interests. And that's what they do. I did not say the union should blanket-endorse Republicans.

The union endorses illegal immigration and legalization of illegal labor explicitly.
 

Thebrownblob

Well-Known Member
Many Republicans are for free trade agreements. Most are.

I didn't actually say anything about Republicans being better. I said the union is made up of hardcore democrats who will endorse free trade and massive illegal immigration, even though both are against members' interests. And that's what they do. I did not say the union should blanket-endorse Republicans.

The union endorses illegal immigration and legalization of illegal labor explicitly.
Actually I don’t think they honestly endorse it I think they feel like they have no choice. They hook their wagon to the government many years ago and crossing them is dangerous. But you say they shouldn’t endorse Democrats who should they endorse? There really isn’t anybody else besides Republicans who are really not that dissimilar at least not the ones who run for president. Perhaps They should endorse no one? I would be fine with that but I think the people in charge feel they would have no leverage and the only way to get things done unfortunately in this day and age is to kiss the ring in Washington. Just a reality of business that I don’t like anymore than you. At a local level I can assure you many local Republicans are supported. And that amount of support is growing all the time so perhaps a change is on the way?
 

wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
Actually I don’t think they honestly endorse it I think they feel like they have no choice. They hook their wagon to the government many years ago and crossing them is dangerous. But you say they shouldn’t endorse Democrats who should they endorse? There really isn’t anybody else besides Republicans who are really not that dissimilar at least not the ones who run for president. Perhaps They should endorse no one? I would be fine with that but I think the people in charge feel they would have no leverage and the only way to get things done unfortunately in this day and age is to kiss the ring in Washington. Just a reality of business that I don’t like anymore than you. At a local level I can assure you many Republicans are supported. And that amount of support is growing all the time so perhaps a change is on the way?
This thread is about whether to donate to drive.
Even if you think they have sympathetic or understandable reasons for endorsing candidates who hurt labor, or have reasons to take stupid anti-labor positions like supporting mass importation of labor, then it would still be a valid reason not to donate.
 

Thebrownblob

Well-Known Member
This thread is about whether to donate to drive.
Even if you think they have sympathetic or understandable reasons for endorsing candidates who hurt labor, or have reasons to take stupid anti-labor positions like supporting mass importation of labor, then it would still be a valid reason not to donate.
Sure but I can assure you without those donations thousands of central states retirees would not have been taken care of it may not matter to you but it matters to many. It sucks that we had to come with hat in hand But it is what it is at this point.
 

wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
Sure but I can assure you without those donations thousands of central states retirees would not have been taken care of it may not matter to you but it matters to many. It sucks that we had to come with hat in hand But it is what it is at this point.
Maybe the union shouldn't have screwed up the pension plan. Then we wouldn't need the political arm to lobby for bailouts.
 

Thebrownblob

Well-Known Member
Maybe the union shouldn't have screwed up the pension plan. Then we wouldn't need the political arm to lobby for bailouts.
That we can agree on, but that was not you and I. All I can do is take care of my little piece right now and try to move and steer the ship slowly in a different direction from where I’m at.
 

wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
That we can agree on, but that was not you and I. All I can do is take care of my little piece right now and try to move and steer the ship slowly in a different direction from where I’m at.
This is understandable, but I'm simply not going to give money to an organization that already screwed everything up, and then needs more to fix the screwup. I'll advocate for replacement of leadership instead of throwing good money after bad.
 

UnionStrong

Sorry, but I don’t care anymore.
That we can agree on, but that was not you and I. All I can do is take care of my little piece right now and try to move and steer the ship slowly in a different direction from where I’m at.
The government had a hand in the pension problem when they deregulated the trucking industry.
 

Thebrownblob

Well-Known Member
The government had a hand in the pension problem when they deregulated the trucking industry.
Absolutely. Plenty of blame to go around. Unfortunately hard-working blue collar men and women we’re about to be crushed because of no fault of their own. You never hear a whistle whisper when we bail out giant banks corporations and billionaires.
 

Thebrownblob

Well-Known Member
This is understandable, but I'm simply not going to give money to an organization that already screwed everything up, and then needs more to fix the screwup. I'll advocate for replacement of leadership instead of throwing good money after bad.
well personally I think Sean is going to do a fine job, give him a chance before you make a decision. I’m also certain we won’t agree with him on everything but that’s part in parcel of being in charge.
 

UnionStrong

Sorry, but I don’t care anymore.
Absolutely. Plenty of blame to go around. Unfortunately hard-working blue collar men and women we’re about to be crushed because of no fault of their own. You never hear a whistle whisper when we bail out giant banks corporations and billionaires.
It could have been done years ago for half of what it ended up costing them.
 
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