Do you have any respect for drivers who never worked on the inside?

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by UpstateNYUPSer, Dec 10, 2011.

  1. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    In keeping with the spirit of the "supervisors who never drove" thread, do you have any respect for drivers who never worked on the inside? Please keep in mind that this is not about me but is instead about any outside hires that you work with.

    My opinion is based upon my personal situation but I don't think a driver's ability should be based upon whether or not he/she worked his/her way up through the system. Working on the inside does give a better perspective of what these kids go through and a better appreciation of the sacrifices they make in order to achieve their utlimate goal; however, you don't have to know how to load them to deliver them, especially with PAS/EDD.

    I would appreciate any constructive feedback and ask that you refrain from personal attacks. Dave.
  2. cachsux

    cachsux Wah

    Do I fault anyone for taking advantage at the time of hire? Heck no. I would have in a heartbeat also. I only have a problem when they complain. Then I point out what it was like to work ones way up instead of being in the right spot at the right time.
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  3. Indecisi0n

    Indecisi0n Well-Known Member

    I don't also respect the opinions of people who have never done the job trying to tell vets how they should do it.
  4. kingOFchester

    kingOFchester Well-Known Member

  5. Anonymous 10

    Anonymous 10 Guest

    Bingo + 2
  6. Anonymous 10

    Anonymous 10 Guest

    In my area a large majority of the feeder drivers hired off the street complain the most. It's like they live on another planet and most don't realize how good they have it.
  7. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    Not many places like UPS with its control attitude and control systems and its incessant concentration on productivity.
    These are the attributes UPS is known for (in peer management reviews) and what has made UPS as strong and as enduring as it is.
    I imagine it is a culture shot to most people who did not grow up in this culture.
  8. menotyou

    menotyou bella amicizia

    I respect those who respect the hell we who worked on the inside have put up with. If, only if, they earn my respect, will they get it. I have been fooled one too many times by people. One can't answer honestly by not including you, if you have affected their view of outside hires adversely. Maybe, that is something you should have thought of previously.
  9. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    The closest comparison that I have found is the culture within the military. I think this is what made my personal transition so smooth.
  10. cachsux

    cachsux Wah

    Some of the 710 off the street hire drivers are the biggest d-bags ever seen. They`ll come up and start the conversation with "Hey, you gotta......".

    I always point out exactly what I "gotta".

    The one thing I absolutely won`t tolerate is when I am around a driver thats being disrespectful to a PTimer.
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  11. Southwestern

    Southwestern New Member

    The majority of drivers at my center were hired off the street, since most started in the 1980s/early 1990s when UPS was heavily growing in my area. But it doesn't really matter. The overwhelming majority of drivers at my building look down upon & talk down upon part-timers, persisting the jobs are easy (compared to when they did it, which may have been for just a few months or years): e.g. PAL vs. memorization for sorters/preloaders, Next Generation Small Sort vs. memorization, extendos vs. the old crappy rollers for unloaders/loaders, etc. What they fail to account for is productivity standards: for example, unloaders use to unload three 28' trailers in a 4-hour -- often receiving help -- whereas now they may be expected to unload two 53' trailers -- and then bag for their 3.5 guarantee. In all honesty, I think the large wage discrepancy is the reason for the attitude... but, IMO, driving for $70,000/year is a lot easier to preloading for $12,000/year ;).
  12. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    I agree with this for sure Upstate,,, I was in a light infantry unit that, with the way it was run, is very similar to the UPS culture. I have told many a person that having this job is very similar except that we have a union here and is a lot easier to speak your mind.
  13. dannyboy

    dannyboy From the promised LAND

    In our center, the last driver hired off the street for delivery was Dennis, and that was in the late 70's or maybe even first part of 1980. Dennis is one of the most humble, most appricative of his loaders, and never ever an unkind word to the fellow workers. So to find any fault in him would be a lost cause. He is one of the best of the best.

    The outside 6-1 hires have been part time sups. So every one has had pre-load or hub experience. Some much less than others. I find that the part time sups that worked a week or two as an hourly before geting into part time management forget what the stress is like for the part time hourly, and tend to put down the efforts of the ones that load their trucks. It just shows how shallow they are.

    Some people are just born to be bitchers and complainers. They find fault with everything, even it is perfect. Others are more laid back, and try to find the best, even in bad situations. The working background really has nothing to do with it.


  14. dilligaf

    dilligaf IN VINO VERITAS

    We have 1 outside hire. Funny enough, he came from Fred. Do I have any respect for him? Absolutely not. This has nothing to do with him being an outside hire either. It has everything to do with him being a runner/gunner and his open acknowledgement of it. Funny enough also, he's been out on a work related injury for the past year. Years of service - approx 3 - including injury time.
  15. texan

    texan Well-Known Member

    What branch where you sir?
  16. hellfire

    hellfire no one considers UPS people."real" Teamsters.-BUG

    why would anyone care about a outside hire,, maybe jealous, but the difference is the driver is not telling other drivers how to do the job
  17. ORLY!?!

    ORLY!?! Master Loader

    Jealous, maybe. Frustraded with the system, hell yes.

    First, I believe the job should be given to insiders first, if thats a problem, then go outside. UPS learned its lesson a few years back when they started hiring only people off the street to drive. After the first week of work for them, a mass of grievances flooded into the union. This problem runs with managment thinking that anyone, everyone should be able to do the job. As upstate has done in the past, ex-military personnel do very well here. An understanding of what hard work really is doesnt hurt either.

    Second, most drivers come from soft jobs anyways. A friend of mine, a fellow preloader who works next to me, was recently trained to drive up in Jacksonville. Last week he went out driving for the first time. He told me he doesnt really understand what most drivers complain about. On top of that, he isnt that great of preloader as well. 90%+ of the drivers come from something easy anyways. Does it surprise me that UPS would hire off the street, no it doesnt. And, doesnt matter over all.

    Last, I would only wish that each person, no matter origins, would spend at least 3 - 6 months on a extermly hard loading / unload / preload shift. This would open the eyes, or eliminate those who would complain vastly. It would also axe those who couldnt take it. My preload center has had an 90%+ turn over rate this year. I'm sure most drivers would never be able to handle it as well. Lastly of the last, would at least train future drivers, who would make it, the hustle that is of demand of the job.
  18. dilligaf

    dilligaf IN VINO VERITAS

    I wish my preloaders would be required to work with the drivers so they could better understand how their loads adversely affect the drivers.
  19. brownedout

    brownedout New Member

    Good questions, one I always thought of bringing up. To straight out answer, No, I have no respect for the outside hires, but only when they first start. I am jaded in this view because I was passed over 20 some years ago by the then 4:1 ratio. This driver was a peak casual for 3 years and when the full-time position became available it was time for a outside hire. Said driver has gone on to become one of my closest friends on the job. One of only a few who I spend time with out of work. Another outside hire has gone on to become quite a successful driver, but I feel I contributed to his success I trained him from day one, when we were given that responsibilty. So although these guys are more than capable of performing our job, they will never have the benefit of the doubt that an inside transfer would receive from the get go. I personally would be much more lenient toward the inside hires mistakes and try to help them through, becuse in my mind they have earned it. The outside hire on the other hand would need to go years to earn that same help. I realize the success stories I have talked about say this shouldn't be the case, and I'm not trying to justify how/why I feel this way, or even proclaim myself right/wrong. Just stating how I feel, and even more important that feeling is very far from mine alone.
  20. bottomups

    bottomups Bad Moon Risen'

    Years ago as a steward, I had the opportunity to represent a fellow coworker who was ex military. This person was the senior employee on the seniority list and it was well known that management was pushing him out the door. The production harassment was never ending but tolerated well by this employee. One day during a PCM, the center manager called him PATHETIC in front of his fellow employees. That was the last straw and a grievance was filed for harassment and lack of dignity and respect.
    A few weeks later during the grievance hearing, the member stood up, faced the DM and said something along these lines. "In 1969, during the Vietnam War, I enlisted in the United States Marine Corps. I was sent to basic training and in the ensuing weeks, the Corps broke me down and belittled me until I was a shell of myself. When they had me at rock bottom, they instilled Duty, Honor, God, Country and Corps and built me back up to make me the man and Marine that I am today! You sir, your corporate mentality and your minions in management have set out to break me also. When you get me to my lowest point all you want to do is toss me out with the trash. I am here today to inform you that you that you will NEVER break me! Semper Fi!"
    Without another word being said, the DM turns to the center manager and states "You will treat this MAN with the dignity and respect that he has earned and deserves. If you ever call one of my employees pathetic again you will be shown the door!"
    Easiest grievant I ever had to represent. I literally never had to say a word. The harassment ceased. The center manager was promoted to DM a couple years later.
    Upstate, you sir have earned my respect as you have served our Country! Putting in a couple of years PT pales in comparison.
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