Do you start your lunch break when you arrive, or start driving, to your break destination?

[Jones]

Incorrect. Continue reading the guidance.

The CMV may be used for personal conveyance even if it is laden, since the load is not being transported for the commercial benefit of the carrier at that time.

You cannot operate a CMV for personal conveyance that is laden. This means you should not be carrying any freight at all. You are also going to have to drive bobtail if you are operating a tractor-trailer. Even pulling an empty trailer is considered as being laden.

Off Duty Driving - 7 Things to Remember

 

[Boywondr]

I said it was company policy, I never said the policy complied with regulation. I'll ask my sup if he'll get me a copy.

@Mugarolla is arguing hours of service rules, which mostly apply to long haul truckers, trying to apply them to our situation in order to justify the company's position of not paying us for the time. Even if these rules could be applied to our situation, there are conditions that must be met before you could be considered using a commercial vehicle as a personal conveyance. One being that you can't be hauling freight. For the purpose of that rule, we are (nearly) always hauling freight. But, even if you could apply the rule to exclude that travel time from our hours of service, it does not excuse UPS from paying us for it.

There is no policy here. Common sense will prevail in a hearing. If you drive way past a myriad of restaurants to go to a specific one you may have to bail yourself out on that but we have no policy except what is reasonably accessible between the 3rd and 6th hour of our day...unless you're in a crime ridden area proven to be unsafe.

 

[Mugarolla]

@Mugarolla is arguing hours of service rules, which mostly apply to long haul truckers, trying to apply them to our situation

Package car drivers use the short-haul exception from the DOT hours of service regulations.

Personal conveyance regulations apply to anyone using the short-haul exception, which includes package car drivers.

in order to justify the company's position of not paying us for the time.

I did no such thing.

A couple of people posted totally inaccurate and wrong information about the DOT hours of service rules.

I just corrected them.

Even if these rules could be applied to our situation

Hate to tell you, but they apply to you.

there are conditions that must be met before you could be considered using a commercial vehicle as a personal conveyance. One being that you can't be hauling freight

Incorrect.

I just posted the regulations and guidelines straight from the FMCSA that says even if you are laiden, which means carrying freight, you can still use the personal conveyance exception.

But, even if you could apply the rule to exclude that travel time from our hours of service, it does not excuse UPS from paying us for it.

Now we're getting somewhere.

It does not excuse UPS from paying you.

Next time you want to stick words in my mouth, try being accurate.

 

[Mugarolla]

You cannot operate a CMV for personal conveyance that is laden. This means you should not be carrying any freight at all. You are also going to have to drive bobtail if you are operating a tractor-trailer. Even pulling an empty trailer is considered as being laden.

Off Duty Driving - 7 Things to Remember

This is feom Big Road? What the hell is that?

What I quoted was straight from the FMCSA regulations straight from their website.

Looks like Big Road is incorrect.

 

[Boywondr]

Package car drivers use the short-haul exception from the DOT hours of service regulations.

Personal conveyance regulations apply to anyone using the short-haul exception, which includes package car drivers.



I did no such thing.

A couple of people posted totally inaccurate and wrong information about the DOT hours of service rules.

I just corrected them.



Hate to tell you, but they apply to you.



Incorrect.

I just posted the regulations and guidelines straight from the FMCSA that says even if you are laiden, which means carrying freight, you can still use the personal conveyance exception.



Now we're getting somewhere.

It does not excuse UPS from paying you.

Next time you want to stick words in my mouth, try being accurate.

It's pretty late.

 

[Mugarolla]

The CMV may be used for personal conveyance even if it is laden, since the load is not being transported for the commercial benefit of the carrier at that time.

Personal Conveyance | FMCSA

 

[Mugarolla]

It's pretty late.

Heading home...

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Package car drivers use the short-haul exception from the DOT hours of service regulations.

Personal conveyance regulations apply to anyone using the short-haul exception, which includes package car drivers.



I did no such thing.

A couple of people posted totally inaccurate and wrong information about the DOT hours of service rules.

I just corrected them.



Hate to tell you, but they apply to you.



Incorrect.

I just posted the regulations and guidelines straight from the FMCSA that says even if you are laiden, which means carrying freight, you can still use the personal conveyance exception.



Now we're getting somewhere.

It does not excuse UPS from paying you.

Next time you want to stick words in my mouth, try being accurate.

I made an assumption, which I rescind. The question at hand has always been whether our unpaid lunch breaks start before or after we stop driving. You started talking about hours of service, kind of a tangent. It might come up if someone goes over their 60 hours by a few minutes.

 

[Mugarolla]

The question at hand has always been whether our unpaid lunch breaks start before or after we stop driving. You started talking about hours of service, kind of a tangent. It might come up if someone goes over their 60 hours by a few minutes.

Nope

A couple of people said that you cannot drive while off duty and or while not getting paid.

That's what I responded to. Because they were incorrect.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

This is feom Big Road? What the hell is that?

What I quoted was straight from the FMCSA regulations straight from their website.

Looks like Big Road is incorrect.

I found the same rule cited by a different source. Maybe it was a somewhat recent rule change.

 

[542thruNthru]

Incorrect.

If you're on your meal, you are relieved of all responsibility of your truck and load.

This is what's meant by personal conveyance.

Since you are relieved of responsibility of your load, you can then use the vehicle for personal conveyance as off-duty time.



The rule applies to the movement of a commercial motor vehicle.

Incorrect. Continue reading the guidance.

The CMV may be used for personal conveyance even if it is laden, since the load is not being transported for the commercial benefit of the carrier at that time.

I'm confused.

How can we be relieved of responsibility of our vehicle if we are driving it?

If I were to get into a accident. Would that mean UPS could not discipline me because at that time it was my personal conveyance?

Because it sounds like if I can be disciplined for what happens to the vehicle then I'm still on duty.

 

[Mugarolla]

I found the same rule cited by a different source. Maybe it was a somewhat recent rule change.

2019

 

[zubenelgenubi]

I'm confused.

How can we be relieved of responsibility of our vehicle if we are driving it?

If I were to get into a accident. Would that mean UPS could not discipline me because at that time it was my personal conveyance?

Because it sounds like if I can be disciplined for what happens to the vehicle than I'm still on duty.

It's an hours of service issue. Whether the company has to pay you to drive to and from a lunch break is a somewhat separate issue.

 

[542thruNthru]

It's an hours of service issue. Whether the company has to pay you to drive to and from a lunch break is a somewhat separate issue.

I get that we are talking about two separate issues. I'm asking a HOS question to be honest. I don't understand how it's possible.

 

[Mugarolla]

How can we be relieved of responsibility of our vehicle if we are driving it?

In order to use personal conveyance, you need to be relieved of all responsibility of your equipment and load before you can use personal conveyance.

When you go on meal or break, you are relieved of all responsibility for your vehicle and load and can do whatever you want. Therefore, you can use personal conveyance.

 

[542thruNthru]

In order to use personal conveyance, you need to be relieved of all responsibility of your equipment and load before you can use personal conveyance.

When you go on meal or break, you are relieved of all responsibility for your vehicle and load and can do whatever you want. Therefore, you can use personal conveyance.

So it sounds like I'm off duty driving the truck till I do something wrong, then I'm back on duty.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

I get that we are talking about two separate issues. I'm asking a HOS question to be honest. I don't understand how it's possible.

What it means is that you can work somewhat over 60 hours in a week if you can exclude the time spent traveling to and from lunch, and not be in violation, inasmuch as the DOT is concerned.

 

[Mugarolla]

It's an hours of service issue. Whether the company has to pay you to drive to and from a lunch break is a somewhat separate issue.

The FMCSA does not tell a company when they have to pay you and when they do not have to pay you.

The only thing they did was issue a rule 11 months ago about when and how you are allowed, under the FMCSA regulations, to use personal conveyance.

And yes, it is an hours of service issue. But it also means that you can drive while off duty.

UPS take care of the pay part.

 

[Mugarolla]

So it sounds like I'm off duty driving the truck till I do something wrong, then I'm back on duty.

You're asking the wrong question.

Does UPS even allow you to use your vehicle for personal conveyance.

If they don't, then it's a moot point. But if they do, and you are authorized to use it for personal conveyance, then you were covered in the event of an accident or injury.

 

[542thruNthru]

You're asking the wrong question.

Does UPS even allow you to use your vehicle for personal conveyance.

If they don't, then it's a moot point. But if they do, and you are authorized to use it for personal conveyance, then you were covered in the event of an accident or injury.

That's where the disconnect was. I didn't realize the company had to allow the personal conveyance.

Thanks