UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
I think you may be confusing the noon to 1 rule. They don't have a problem with you attempting commercial deliveries between noon and 1--they do have a problem with you using CLO between noon and 1.
Driver fired for falsifying timecard...
- Thread starter NHDRVR
- Start date
I think you may be confusing the noon to 1 rule. They don't have a problem with you attempting commercial deliveries between noon and 1--they do have a problem with you using CLO between noon and 1.
browniehound
Well-Known Member
That's my question. Also, why not just put the time in when you take it? If you're taking it just record the accurate time. Seems like a foolish thing to do?
Ghost in the Darkness
Well-Known Member
We have 45 min lunch where I'm at too. Its way too much time... & then there is the 10 min break too. Killing 55 min a day sucks... I'm glad we don't have an hour.
browniehound
Well-Known Member
We all live in the real world and there are certain times that dictate us to run our lunch. I don't care who you are, there must have been a few occasions that you gave UPS your lunch to see your kids play, etc. Here is MA we are given 2 paid 10 minute breaks and a forced hour lunch.
I'm sorry, the union might have negotiated this but it plays into UPS' favor BIG-TIME. An hour and twenty minutes? This is a HUGE amount of time/labor UPS is gaining from the regular lunch-runners. Also, if you start at 830 on a business route, OT would start at 1630 instead of 1730 and most business routes have scheduled 1800 pickup times which would mean an over 10 would occur at 1830(and 20 minute OT time bonus here in MA) everyday.
The hour lunch benefits UPS and not the drivers. Why else would they insist it be "entered into the DIAD"? If I had my choice, one 10 minute break would be enough for me. If I need to take more, than why not let me code it off and deduct it from my time? 10 minutes is enough time for me to eat my sandwich, which is all I eat everyday at work.
I work 8.5-10.5 hours at UPS everyday. I don't need 1.33 hours tacked on to that. Now it becomes 9.83- 11.83 hours everyday that I'm really at work. Seriously, after I eat I must sit there by myself and do nothing for over an hour. Now, with telematics, I can't idle the truck for heat. In Boston the temps in January are in the teens many days. I must sit in my package car for an hour+ with no heat if I am to be justly compensated for my time?
I am told by managment to go into a warn building. Where? Am I to ask a customer if I can sit in their heated building for an hour? Don't you think they will get sick of seeing me everyday and using them for their heat? Or am I to be a vagrant ( I bring my lunch and refuse to spend money just to stay warm) at a fast food chain of coffee shop? Either option is not acceptable. What if there is no resteraunts or coffe shops on the route?
My solution would be: I will not idle your package car if you don't force me to take an hour lunch. Off course UPS is not going to bite on this because if I idle the package car for about half of the lunch break it will cost them about $1 in fuel, where if I skip lunch to be warm, they gain $44 (OT) in free labor at the end of the day.
1 hour, 20 minutes? Too much personal time. Does anyone else agree? I would love to hear opinion to the contrary or agreeing. Thanks in advance.
I'm sorry, the union might have negotiated this but it plays into UPS' favor BIG-TIME. An hour and twenty minutes? This is a HUGE amount of time/labor UPS is gaining from the regular lunch-runners. Also, if you start at 830 on a business route, OT would start at 1630 instead of 1730 and most business routes have scheduled 1800 pickup times which would mean an over 10 would occur at 1830(and 20 minute OT time bonus here in MA) everyday.
The hour lunch benefits UPS and not the drivers. Why else would they insist it be "entered into the DIAD"? If I had my choice, one 10 minute break would be enough for me. If I need to take more, than why not let me code it off and deduct it from my time? 10 minutes is enough time for me to eat my sandwich, which is all I eat everyday at work.
I work 8.5-10.5 hours at UPS everyday. I don't need 1.33 hours tacked on to that. Now it becomes 9.83- 11.83 hours everyday that I'm really at work. Seriously, after I eat I must sit there by myself and do nothing for over an hour. Now, with telematics, I can't idle the truck for heat. In Boston the temps in January are in the teens many days. I must sit in my package car for an hour+ with no heat if I am to be justly compensated for my time?
I am told by managment to go into a warn building. Where? Am I to ask a customer if I can sit in their heated building for an hour? Don't you think they will get sick of seeing me everyday and using them for their heat? Or am I to be a vagrant ( I bring my lunch and refuse to spend money just to stay warm) at a fast food chain of coffee shop? Either option is not acceptable. What if there is no resteraunts or coffe shops on the route?
My solution would be: I will not idle your package car if you don't force me to take an hour lunch. Off course UPS is not going to bite on this because if I idle the package car for about half of the lunch break it will cost them about $1 in fuel, where if I skip lunch to be warm, they gain $44 (OT) in free labor at the end of the day.
1 hour, 20 minutes? Too much personal time. Does anyone else agree? I would love to hear opinion to the contrary or agreeing. Thanks in advance.
brownmonster
Man of Great Wisdom
I agree it's way too much time. Many of the factories in my neck of the woods went to 15 or 20 minute lunch breaks. The workers chose to go home earlier rather than sit in a breakroom looking at the walls. I like my 1/2 hour lunch to read the paper. The breaks I can take or leave.
evildoer
New Member
The majority of our (ballpark) 300 friend/T drivers skip their unpaid lunch and enter it into the board per management instruction. If you put 1 minute in and skip your lunch they will alter your timecard and suck the entire hour out of your pay. You will need to file a grievance to get your money back. Obviously these people won't ever file a grievance, they aren't cut from that cloth -- they are scared of management and don't want to make any waves. The majority of these people also come in far before their scheduled start-times and load their own trucks. The minority of drivers who actually take their contractual entitlements get browbeat and harassed on a daily basis -- usually about the overallowed nonsense. The timestudies have been neutered so badly over the last 10 years, especially the last 5 years, that you actually need to skip your lunch and falsify your timecard to have a shot at making scratch. People who take their lunch are generally at least 1hr overallowed -- I wonder why.
I have to believe in some remote areas of the world this company actually has competent, intelligent managers that aren't morally bankrupt. I'd sure like a transfer to that building.
I have to believe in some remote areas of the world this company actually has competent, intelligent managers that aren't morally bankrupt. I'd sure like a transfer to that building.
BrownArmy
Well-Known Member
I'm in the same boat, just outside of Boston with one hour unpaid, two ten-minute breaks. Honestly, I could do without the unpaid hour. If you're not paying me for that hour anyway, do I really need to take it? Code 5 me every day!
Twenty minutes of break is about right for me. I started bringing a SUDOKU puzzle book everyday to help me pass the time. As long as I'm getting docked for an hour, I'll be damned if I won't take the hour. Sometimes I nap, sometimes I do yoga, mostly puzzles, but I'd rather get the work done and go home.
Except that I'm a cover driver, so the faster - and more efficiently - I do my job, the more likely I'll get more work come whatever-o-clock.
Suddenly break-time looks great...
Last edited:
grgrcr88
No It's not green grocer!
Central states is a health and welfare fund, what does that have to do with anything.
Braveheart
Well-Known Member
705red
Browncafe Steward
The union should request this along with the delivery records for every driver to compare if they are on lunch or delivering during. That would raise some eye brows!
tieguy
Banned
you're discussing litigation tactics at this point in the hope of getting his job back. The point still remains that he would not be in this situation if did what management told him to do the many times he was talked with.
705red
Browncafe Steward
You are correct to a point Tie, but once I prove that you have been harassing this driver and allowing others not to take a lunch while forcing him to this is what could happen. I would love to do battle with you!
I'm curious to know if the driver was unable to make deliveries during the 12-1 hours, then would have to go back? Could this be why they are going to an extreme measure for a seemingly minor issue??? IMO he will probably be brought back after a center level meeting, too much time and training invested to be dismissed for something this petty, although the company is probably getting their point made.
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
Hellfire
I can tell by your passioned position, you have not worked long at UPS, have you.
At what point in time are you allowed access to a lawyer?
Stealing time, an interesting concept.
As I posted, there is more to this than a driver that did not follow instructions, a lot more. There always is, and until we know what that actually is, we are only blowing hot air.
d
I can tell by your passioned position, you have not worked long at UPS, have you.
At what point in time are you allowed access to a lawyer?
Stealing time, an interesting concept.
As I posted, there is more to this than a driver that did not follow instructions, a lot more. There always is, and until we know what that actually is, we are only blowing hot air.
d
tieguy
Banned
it could be an interesting debate. You're arguing that once I discover Driver A has a problem I should then audit the rest of my drivers to see if they also have the same problem?
Realistically though if the facts are right you'll have been in so many local hearings with the same guy about the same stupid stuff that you'll beg me to fire the guy.
So true, Now that made me laugh out loud, and spit my coffee on my PC.
I have read all the threads on this subject and cant believe how many of you are MIS INFORMED on lunch and breaks. First off, lets do away with the notion that just because someone, somewhere else does something, this somehow makes it ok. This is NOT a winning strategy nor a LEGAL standing.
So for those proposing this argument, give it a rest, YOU ARE WRONG.
Every state in this union has different labor laws in effect for workers within its boundaries. In these labor laws are standards for lunch and break periods.
NO LABOR contract can violate STATE LAW. Even if there is a SIGNED agreement between the Teamsters and the company, NO EMPLOYEE can violate state law. So before anyone gives advice to this driver, they have to know what the state law says about lunch and breaks.
There are lawsuits pending against UPS for lunch violations in several states. A few years ago, in California, UPS settled the lunch case with its employees and paid us a large sum of money for the violations. Myself, I recieved a little over 12K. Many drivers recieved over 10K. Because of this case, UPS has tried to implement proper lunch periods for its drivers within the guidelines of state laws.
For example, in California, our contract states that we can take lunch between the 4th and 6th hour, however, the State mandates that we take lunch between the 4th and 5th hour, and in addition, a second unpaid lunch can be taken after the 10th hour, not to mention a third break after 9.5 hours.
UPS must now comply with state law and provide us lunch guidelines as per state law and not the contract.
We as drivers are OBLIGATED to honor the state law despite "PAST PRATICE" and/or contractual agreements. If you dont comply with the state law after recieving a warning from the company, you could be subject to discipline.
In our state law, if that vehicle is moving while you are clocked out on lunch, the company must PAY YOU for the time while the vehicle is moving.
This is why its considered "stealing time". If you are clocked out, then that vehicle cannot move. Its that simple.
With todays technology, the company can simply make thier case by showing the telematics report showing the vehicle moving during lunch.
"past practice" does not supercede STATE LAW.
I realize that in the "old days" we could skip lunch and make bonus, or clear the truck to make room for pickups, but this isnt yesterdays UPS.
With the number of lawsuits affecting the company, it has an obligation to do things properly. The excuse of "he punched out between 12/1 so he could make room for pickups, then actually sat still for 1 hour at the end of the day" is a rediculous argument. Laughable at Best.
This driver was instructed, then warned, then disciplined, then warned, then terminated. He knew where he stood and defied ALL INSTRUCTION.
To this end, I say, "hope you enjoyed your stay at UPS, have a nice time in your new career".
Drivers have to change their mindsets, this isnt the "OLD UPS". Do the job correctly, understand that the contract will not protect you if you violate state law.
This driver should have known better.
Peace.
So for those proposing this argument, give it a rest, YOU ARE WRONG.
Every state in this union has different labor laws in effect for workers within its boundaries. In these labor laws are standards for lunch and break periods.
NO LABOR contract can violate STATE LAW. Even if there is a SIGNED agreement between the Teamsters and the company, NO EMPLOYEE can violate state law. So before anyone gives advice to this driver, they have to know what the state law says about lunch and breaks.
There are lawsuits pending against UPS for lunch violations in several states. A few years ago, in California, UPS settled the lunch case with its employees and paid us a large sum of money for the violations. Myself, I recieved a little over 12K. Many drivers recieved over 10K. Because of this case, UPS has tried to implement proper lunch periods for its drivers within the guidelines of state laws.
For example, in California, our contract states that we can take lunch between the 4th and 6th hour, however, the State mandates that we take lunch between the 4th and 5th hour, and in addition, a second unpaid lunch can be taken after the 10th hour, not to mention a third break after 9.5 hours.
UPS must now comply with state law and provide us lunch guidelines as per state law and not the contract.
We as drivers are OBLIGATED to honor the state law despite "PAST PRATICE" and/or contractual agreements. If you dont comply with the state law after recieving a warning from the company, you could be subject to discipline.
In our state law, if that vehicle is moving while you are clocked out on lunch, the company must PAY YOU for the time while the vehicle is moving.
This is why its considered "stealing time". If you are clocked out, then that vehicle cannot move. Its that simple.
With todays technology, the company can simply make thier case by showing the telematics report showing the vehicle moving during lunch.
"past practice" does not supercede STATE LAW.
I realize that in the "old days" we could skip lunch and make bonus, or clear the truck to make room for pickups, but this isnt yesterdays UPS.
With the number of lawsuits affecting the company, it has an obligation to do things properly. The excuse of "he punched out between 12/1 so he could make room for pickups, then actually sat still for 1 hour at the end of the day" is a rediculous argument. Laughable at Best.
This driver was instructed, then warned, then disciplined, then warned, then terminated. He knew where he stood and defied ALL INSTRUCTION.
To this end, I say, "hope you enjoyed your stay at UPS, have a nice time in your new career".
Drivers have to change their mindsets, this isnt the "OLD UPS". Do the job correctly, understand that the contract will not protect you if you violate state law.
This driver should have known better.
Peace.
NHDRVR
Well-Known Member
The driver in question, last I heard, is going to CT to try his luck at the panel. I hear rumblings that there were other infractions that haven't been made public. True/false...who knows. But, to clear a few things up, He wa sputting in his lunch between 12-1 but he liked to take it at the end of the day. He would deliver his resi's between 12-1, prerecord them, and then, while on lunch at the end of the day, stop-complete them. He was observed doing this, was verbally warned and, so I heard, given a written warning as well. I do know he was a bit abrasive in his responses when his practices were questioned which I don't get (why piss off someone who can make things worse) and, as I said, there are rumors of some other things....
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
Much like the driver here I posted about
Maybe its because its very late after a 30 hour day, but I dont see the driver being able to be charged with stealing time as this statement suggests. A driver working off the clock is only stealing time from themselves.
As to the rest of the post, dead on!
Take your lunch when you punch your lunch. Period. And if you only take 10 minutes, show ten minutes, not an hour.
And for sure, dont be completing stops while seated at a table at hardees. A bit of film, and a hearing and you are history at UPS. With no returns.
d
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