Fatalities, murder? and lessons learned....or not.

[Maple Grove MN Driver]

This might be the dumbest thing ever posted on Brown Cafe
@quad decade guy you need to acquire some class

 

[Wally]

I appreciate your post.

Not good.

Very sad.

Everyone who work’s for UPS puts their life on the line everyday, every minute of every day while under the employ of UPS.

Employees should always be treated with the dignity, respect and care that assuming this risk deserves.

Management should be above reproach with their treatment if those under them.

Union officials and Union brothers should accept nothing less than 100% solidarity with regards dignity, respect, and care Union brothers and all UPS employees deserve. Even if it costs us some money.


Unsafe acts of any kind should never be tolerated even if the guilty employee needs to be fired for refusal to follow UPS Safety training.

Any management person who observes unsafe acts of any kind and does nothing should be fired on the spot.

This should be the culture at UPS, this would put those most responsible on notice that UPS safety training must be followed not only in word but in deed as well.

How the hell are you going to stop someone with a gun hellbent on hijacking?

 

[Integrity]

How the hell are you going to stop someone with a gun hellbent on hijacking?

My post was not meant to speak directly about that horrible incident.

 

[Wally]

My post was not meant to speak directly about that horrible incident.

Ok, good deal.

 

[quad decade guy]

This might be the dumbest thing ever posted on Brown Cafe
@quad decade guy you need to acquire some class

Class. How does pointing out how dangerous our jobs really are? All I said. What have we learned?

Classless? Ok. Or have we still not gotten it as far as fatalities(even murder) and their causes and

prevention. While these questions may seem "dumb" to you, I believe they are the smartest,

most insightful(and useful)......to help save lives.

On the back of a double fatality, my writing and mental acuities are questioned, right from the

start. As I've said, predictable. So, getting back to the original idea, what lessons have we learned?

To some, Article 18(whatever) ends any discussion of discipline, training and a whole long

list of why our hands are tied in any of these instances. If you don't understand what I'm talking

about, you don't have a basic grasp of the union and company culture and us vs. them.


This is part of what we have learned. Your post suggests that exploring or even questioning the

root causes and prevention is the dumbest thing ever posted on brown cafe. Please explain this.

Or is it because of your blind hatred and dislike for me, that you can only attack and belittle?

Which is interesting as my only goal is to identify causes and prevention.

See, there are many reasons why any of these fatalities happen and almost always preventable.

The discussion almost always never gets there. You do find small clues(in the posts) sprinkled

here and there. Ex: the jet mechanic relating how this was an established practice that had

existed for a long time. And that nothing was ever done about it. Others confirmed this. So,

my supposition has been that deliberately reckless, obstinate behavior continues unabated and

uncorrected with causes that have roots with the union and mgt. and of course employees.

All in tragic, plain sight. So, it might be helpful to explore this or you can continue to tear me down,

belittle and scoff and of course deride.

I'll start the exercise. Ontario: The type of horseplay(deliberately reckless behavior) was(is) a long

established, observed practice. Even reported. One could surmise even known to mgt. in some

way. One could logically conclude that a short amount of time observing the air ramp or any phase

of the operation, would confirm deliberately reckless behavior. One could also conclude that all of

the above has been and was recorded. Simply, in other words-we(yes we) know what's happening.

I submit there is a triad of elements: employees, union and mgt. I also submit the causes and

prevention are basic and straight forward. For this, I'm dumb and classless.

 

[quad decade guy]

It's a shame that the OP lacks the basic writing skills possessed by most 2nd graders as this thread had the potential of creating meaningful dialogue.

Comparing the "accident" that killed two of our employees on the air ramp and the hijacking that took the life of a driver who was on his first day alone on the car and tragically was in the wrong place at the wrong time is like comparing apples and oranges.

The air ramp incident was completely avoidable. These two idiots were screwing around on a tug and paid the ultimate price for their stupidity. There will be all sorts of unnecessary proactive safety measures and needless money spent because these two simply didn't feel like doing their jobs the way that they were trained to do.

The hijacking was a tragic case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The kid was on his first day alone and was super excited to start what he hoped to be a long career as a driver. There are going to be those who will advocate for drivers to be allowed to carry. That most certainly would have backfired (pun not intended----well, sort of) as there were two of them and one of him and while he may have gotten one of them he most certainly would not have gotten them both and most certainly would have been shot and killed for his efforts.

Our world has gone crazy and there is little to nothing that any company could do to protect against every possible scenario.

Interesting that your first order is to belittle, deride and criticize my writing skills and mental

acuity. Who compared the three deaths and causes as the same? I certainly didn't. I believe your

conclusions are manifested from your hatred of me and your self-absorbed, massively arrogant

ego.

"Unnecessary proactive safety measures"? "needless money spent"? My God man, that's exactly

why the Ontario fatalities happened. To simply conclude that the deaths were "avoidable" is a gross

over simplification.

Are you psychic? Your penchant for having the insight of peoples state of mind and even their exact

thoughts and actions, and the exact chain of events of scenarios is laughable. How, what and why

from upstate New York? Wow. I don't find your wildly speculative conclusions particularly

meaningful dialogue...to quote a phrase.

 

[Heavy Package]

The hijacking was a tragic case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Our world has gone crazy and there is little to nothing that any company could do to protect against every possible scenario.

Nothing on the truck is worth anyone's life. Here are the keys, I'll start the truck for you, then run the hell away. Also, I'm not carrying a gun to protect your Amazon crap.

May God Bless the UPS driver and his family. May God send the carjackers straight to Hell.

 

[Ghost in the Darkness]

Also, I'm not carrying a gun to protect your Amazon crap.

If someone is choosing to carry, thats not the reason.

There are bad people allowed to roam free in society... good people should not be the ones handcuffed and defenseless.

 

[PT Car Washer]

If someone is choosing to carry, thats not the reason.

Is it to feel macho?

 

[Integrity]

Class. How does pointing out how dangerous our jobs really are? All I said. What have we learned?

Classless? Ok. Or have we still not gotten it as far as fatalities(even murder) and their causes and

prevention. While these questions may seem "dumb" to you, I believe they are the smartest,

most insightful(and useful)......to help save lives.

On the back of a double fatality, my writing and mental acuities are questioned, right from the

start. As I've said, predictable. So, getting back to the original idea, what lessons have we learned?

To some, Article 18(whatever) ends any discussion of discipline, training and a whole long

list of why our hands are tied in any of these instances. If you don't understand what I'm talking

about, you don't have a basic grasp of the union and company culture and us vs. them.


This is part of what we have learned. Your post suggests that exploring or even questioning the

root causes and prevention is the dumbest thing ever posted on brown cafe. Please explain this.

Or is it because of your blind hatred and dislike for me, that you can only attack and belittle?

Which is interesting as my only goal is to identify causes and prevention.

See, there are many reasons why any of these fatalities happen and almost always preventable.

The discussion almost always never gets there. You do find small clues(in the posts) sprinkled

here and there. Ex: the jet mechanic relating how this was an established practice that had

existed for a long time. And that nothing was ever done about it. Others confirmed this. So,

my supposition has been that deliberately reckless, obstinate behavior continues unabated and

uncorrected with causes that have roots with the union and mgt. and of course employees.

All in tragic, plain sight. So, it might be helpful to explore this or you can continue to tear me down,

belittle and scoff and of course deride.

I'll start the exercise. Ontario: The type of horseplay(deliberately reckless behavior) was(is) a long

established, observed practice. Even reported. One could surmise even known to mgt. in some

way. One could logically conclude that a short amount of time observing the air ramp or any phase

of the operation, would confirm deliberately reckless behavior. One could also conclude that all of

the above has been and was recorded. Simply, in other words-we(yes we) know what's happening.

I submit there is a triad of elements: employees, union and mgt. I also submit the causes and

prevention are basic and straight forward. For this, I'm dumb and classless.

Any management that can be proven to have witnessed unsafe acts at that airport, especially unsafe driving of the tugs, and took no action should be immediately fired.

This is probably a reach but; They probably should face some sort of criminal negligence charges as well.

 

[Ghost in the Darkness]

Is it to feel macho?

No, to put a bullet in the head or chest of someone trying to kill you. Not something I'd want to do but if its the choice between me or them going home that day... then so be it. There is no shortage of evil out there.

 

[Zowert]

No, to put a bullet in the head or chest of someone trying to kill you. Not something I'd want to do but if its the choice between me or them going home that day... then so be it. There is no shortage of evil out there.

I conceal carry when I’m off the clock. Not to feel macho or anything like that. It’s simply because the area in which I live has seen a lot of violence lately.

As an RPCD, if I was given the choice to carry (concealed) on the clock I most certainly would not. As much as I’d like to it’s just not a good idea when you’re as physically active as we are. Even the most comfortable conceal carry holsters are going to start nagging you after 12 hours of fast paced labor. It will be near impossible to carry concealed in nothing but shorts and a t shirt during those hot summer months, a time when violence is at its peak.

Also you have to think about the liability of it. A pistol on your person, even in condition one, is opening yourself up for a lot of mishaps that otherwise wouldn’t be possible when you’re unarmed.

Open carry in a good retention holster would be the only comfortable and safe way to arm UPS drivers. But that would look ridiculous and it would likely scare some customers away and create problems for the drivers who deliver to firearm free zones and businesses.

 

[Johney]

Keep talking out of your ass
https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1150&context=law_and_economics

1996?

 

[Zowert]

1996?

Yeah, a 23 year old essay with data and statistics as old as 30 years. I suppose you can say it’s still relevant but you’d be a fool to think things haven’t changed since the 80’s and 90’s.

 

[quad decade guy]

Any management that can be proven to have witnessed unsafe acts at that airport, especially unsafe driving of the tugs, and took no action should be immediately fired.

This is probably a reach but; They probably should face some sort of criminal negligence charges as well.

Any management that can be proven to have witnessed unsafe acts at that airport, especially unsafe driving of the tugs, and took no action should be immediately fired.

This is probably a reach but; They probably should face some sort of criminal negligence charges as well.

Agree 100%. It would be a good start. How about employees that witness this behavior frequently?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Agree 100%. It would be a good start. How about employees that witness this behavior frequently?

They should be reassigned.

 

[rod]

I

find

it

too

hard

to

read

anything

@quad decade guy

posts

 

[Integrity]

Agree 100%. It would be a good start. How about employees that witness this behavior frequently?

If it can be proven, then progressive discipline up to being fired if necessary. IMO This would be a good start.

 

[542thruNthru]

Agree 100%. It would be a good start. How about employees that witness this behavior frequently?

Should do their jobs or put in their letter for management.

 

[MarvelousMunata]

I came cuz I thought there were videos...