Glad I'm out of this Part2

Bounty

Well-Known Member
Bounty when you get away from your route, I hope you go to work for someone. If not, you will be in shock to how little control you have of your own business. I don't care what business it is. You don't have control. Your customer(s) does/do. You might long for the certainty of a large company having work for your employees everyday. The times when you wake in the middle of the night wondering if you will have enough for the week so you actually make some money has to be better than complaining Fedex has to approve the driver you want.

The real world of business ownership isn't all roses. A bit more autonomy means you don't have the assurances you had with Fedex. The price you pay for having Fedex may be high but it's a hell of lot cheaper than paying employees when you aren't making money.
As you said before you are not a contractor. I had plenty of sleepless nights worrying about how I'm going to get everything done, or is my employee going to show. Always got it done but when things are taken from you due to nothing you did wrong it leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Whether or not you agree with that I don't care, I am bitter and pissed. I have A few friends that own other type of routes and they are not controlled the way x controls you. They laugh at the way x has controlled us for years. They hire who they want, drive what they want. Are allowed to leave the building to start their day. X holds you hostage until they close your scanner, sometimes waiting for one package that they misplaced on someone else's route(home delivery). Or just lock doors in the ground terminal. Mr. Mick you are a very smart man not buying one of these scams. Stay away and stay smart.
 

Bounty

Well-Known Member
Bounty when you get away from your route, I hope you go to work for someone. If not, you will be in shock to how little control you have of your own business. I don't care what business it is. You don't have control. Your customer(s) does/do. You might long for the certainty of a large company having work for your employees everyday. The times when you wake in the middle of the night wondering if you will have enough for the week so you actually make some money has to be better than complaining Fedex has to approve the driver you want.

The real world of business ownership isn't all roses. A bit more autonomy means you don't have the assurances you had with Fedex. The price you pay for having Fedex may be high but it's a hell of lot cheaper than paying employees when you aren't making money.
By the way I owned a business before this scam and sold for a nice sum. Built it from the ground up, so I don't need your lesson in business ownership. Yes, there was headaches but everything I did was my decision. Here x makes the decisions for you.
 

OUMick

Well-Known Member
So you owned your own business, sold it for a large profit and decided to buy a route? Hard to believe an entrepreneur such as yourself never grew larger.

Everyone posts all Fedex cares about is getting the packages delivered on time for as cheap as possible. If you ran your route(s) so well, why did they take them?

How long did you own route(s)?
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
Mr. ITWF. It was created for me. Do you know how it happened?. Back in the early 1980's the courts ruled that if a company could prove that they had over contributed to the company pension plan the plan had to refund the excess contribution .Roadway's boy wonder Dan Sullivan picked up on it filed a claim for overpayment and won. The Teamster pension plan had to hork up a $300 million dollar refund and that's where Dan Sullivan got his money to start RPS.By the way have you guys put your company name on your uniforms and your name on your trucks. You know the unifroms that are speced by fxg but you have to pay for And the sign that goes on your trucks that are speced by x and place where they tell you put it? Do you know how all that came about? The 9th in it's ruling made pointed note of the fact that they had guys out there in what looked like company uniforms but we not company employees. Drove what looked like company trucks but were not company trucks and so the court brought up a very pointedquestion. The question? Deceptive business practices. Hey Mr. ITWBF. Don't simply dismiss the points that are being brought up........ disprove them. Bounty : I don't think he's a real contractor either. By the way Mr. ITWBF. 15 min. between stops is not a rural area and it's not a rural area if your tires are not on dirt or mud or hose poop or field stones. or home made bridges built out of rotten wooden planks.Yes, Mr. ITWBF. there is money to be made if you are willing to stoop low enough to get it and you are willing to place yourself under the complete of a company does not consider you worthy of being one of their employees. Consider this: the people who work for you have greater protection under the law than you. That's assuming that you really are who you say you are and I don't assume that.
 

Bounty

Well-Known Member
So you owned your own business, sold it for a large profit and decided to buy a route? Hard to believe an entrepreneur such as yourself never grew larger.

Everyone posts all Fedex cares about is getting the packages delivered on time for as cheap as possible. If you ran your route(s) so well, why did they take them?

How long did you own route(s)?
Owned route for more than 7 years. Our state is going through isp so it's either buy more scams(waste of money) or sell. X gives you a a certain amount of time to sell, so you can't get get any decent money for the route because the buyer knows your against the clock. So it's either sell at a discount or lose everything. If you are thinking about investing any real kind of $ into this just be aware x can change the rules anytime.
 

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
. there is money to be made if you are willing to stoop low enough to get it and you are willing to place yourself under the complete of a company does not consider you worthy of being one of their employees. Consider this: the people who work for you have greater protection under the law than you. That's assuming that you really are who you say you are and I don't assume that.
So there was an issue of identification of equipment and personnel and FedEx is addressing it. What would like me to disprove? That FedEx will continue to alter its agreement to remain in compliance with applicable laws?
So you were willing to stoop so low for the last 23 years, but everyone that does so now is a problem.
I know my employees have better protection than me, it's another point against you giving away work and creating more SWA contractors as an act of kindness. You should have built a real company and helped protect those workers.
I don't need to get paid for this, but if you think fedex would pay me to I'd love to hear their offer.
 

Bounty

Well-Known Member
So there was an issue of identification of equipment and personnel and FedEx is addressing it. What would like me to disprove? That FedEx will continue to alter its agreement to remain in compliance with applicable laws?
So you were willing to stoop so low for the last 23 years, but everyone that does so now is a problem.
I know my employees have better protection than me, it's another point against you giving away work and creating more SWA contractors as an act of kindness. You should have built a real company and helped protect those workers.
I don't need to get paid for this, but if you think fedex would pay me to I'd love to hear their offer.
You keep saying you should have built a real company (you still do not have one). Situations are different, maybe you were right place right time. Although, you could not give me "your business" for free. Remember, when they decide to change the rules on you, "your business" will be done. Let's say you are this great entrepreneur, who does everything right. You pay well, give vacations, always service your area. If x changes the rules on you again and your on the wrong side of the fence, your done. You have one customer, who gives you all of your work, decides who you hire, decides what you drive. You got lucky, there was a lot of politics in my terminal when deciding who got routes and who did not.
 

oldrps

Well-Known Member
All contractors must remember you are a business. If your whole business is dependent on one customer (FedEx) for your revenue, you are taking a huge risk. One change with your one customer can wipe you out, it is easier, but a huge risk. I personally would not recommend a contractor to put all their eggs in one basket, but to diversify and make deliveries for other companies.

You could be a contractor at another company at the same time or start up your own delivery company. Starting your own company up is not easy, but you would be truly independent. This would require you to go out and hustle for business, which you don't have to do with FedEx. It would give you the freedom to hire who you want and drive what you want. You can charge what you want and make as much as you want. You could refuse to service a business if you didn't want to. This is a very hard thing to do, but you would be in a better position with FedEx if they drop you as a contractor.

What you get with FedEx is stability and steady income. You will have packages to deliver everyday. Yes there are a lot of rules with them, but you have business everyday and they pay you timely.

If your business is diversified, you can easily make a change when the time comes to drop FedEx or they are dropping you. When you only work for FedEx, it is hard to make that change.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
All contractors must remember you are a business. If your whole business is dependent on one customer (FedEx) for your revenue, you are taking a huge risk. One change with your one customer can wipe you out, it is easier, but a huge risk. I personally would not recommend a contractor to put all their eggs in one basket, but to diversify and make deliveries for other companies.

You could be a contractor at another company at the same time or start up your own delivery company. Starting your own company up is not easy, but you would be truly independent. This would require you to go out and hustle for business, which you don't have to do with FedEx. It would give you the freedom to hire who you want and drive what you want. You can charge what you want and make as much as you want. You could refuse to service a business if you didn't want to. This is a very hard thing to do, but you would be in a better position with FedEx if they drop you as a contractor.

What you get with FedEx is stability and steady income. You will have packages to deliver everyday. Yes there are a lot of rules with them, but you have business everyday and they pay you timely.

If your business is diversified, you can easily make a change when the time comes to drop FedEx or they are dropping you. When you only work for FedEx, it is hard to make that change.

I doubt that FedEx allows contractors to deliver for anyone but FedEx. Otherwise, you'd have them delivering pizzas, appliances, and whatever else they could to supplement their revenue stream. Single contractors couldn't even use their vehicles for personal use unless the logos/signage was blacked out.
 

oldrps

Well-Known Member
I had a couple of contractors in the 90's that were contracted at RPS and had operations at other companies. When I was working there, the contract did not state the contractor could not work anywhere else. I doubt that has changed.

The contractors can use their vans for other purposes as long as they cover the FedEx logos. The vans the contractor uses are pretty much dedicated to servicing FedEx. It would be very hard to utilize the van away from FedEx due to using it all during the day, unloaded early evening, then loaded early am, then having them loaded on Saturday for Monday delivery.

The successful contractors understood the importance of running a business. I had many single van contractors that thought like employees and didn't understand how to find tax breaks, simple bookkeeping, planning for contingencies, etc. These contractors struggled where the contractors that knew how to run a business thrived.

I know a lot has changed since I left. From what I read on these boards, FedEx is going the right direction by moving to multi route contractors. RPS did not like the idea of the multi route contractors when I was there and it did prevent many contractors to grow their business.

FedEx has been blessed for years with a poor economy and high unemployment which allows the contractors to find cheap labor. I do think as the economy improves, it will be very hard for the contractors to find people to work very cheaply. FedEx will have to deal with contractors with high turnover which will cause sporadic poor service in many areas. The question is if they raised what they pay the contractors, would the contractors pass it to their employees? Time will tell.
 

overflowed

Well-Known Member
I had a couple of contractors in the 90's that were contracted at RPS and had operations at other companies. When I was working there, the contract did not state the contractor could not work anywhere else. I doubt that has changed.

The contractors can use their vans for other purposes as long as they cover the FedEx logos. The vans the contractor uses are pretty much dedicated to servicing FedEx. It would be very hard to utilize the van away from FedEx due to using it all during the day, unloaded early evening, then loaded early am, then having them loaded on Saturday for Monday delivery.

The successful contractors understood the importance of running a business. I had many single van contractors that thought like employees and didn't understand how to find tax breaks, simple bookkeeping, planning for contingencies, etc. These contractors struggled where the contractors that knew how to run a business thrived.

I know a lot has changed since I left. From what I read on these boards, FedEx is going the right direction by moving to multi route contractors. RPS did not like the idea of the multi route contractors when I was there and it did prevent many contractors to grow their business.

FedEx has been blessed for years with a poor economy and high unemployment which allows the contractors to find cheap labor. I do think as the economy improves, it will be very hard for the contractors to find people to work very cheaply. FedEx will have to deal with contractors with high turnover which will cause sporadic poor service in many areas. The question is if they raised what they pay the contractors, would the contractors pass it to their employees? Time will tell.
I highly doubt it. Maybe the 2% that would actually like to pay their employees more would. I've talked to a few that seem to actually want to pay more but cannot. The rest? Not from the ones I see. No $80000 a year, full benefits , plus bereavement. Not even the ground guys posting here for years want to reply to that BS.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
I highly doubt it. Maybe the 2% that would actually like to pay their employees more would. I've talked to a few that seem to actually want to pay more but cannot. The rest? Not from the ones I see. No $80000 a year, full benefits , plus bereavement. Not even the ground guys posting here for years want to reply to that BS.
I'd love to pay more. Won't happen. The next 3 to 4 years will have little to no money for raises. All going to new trucks.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
First guys we should be discussing these issues over at Fed Examiner not this UPS site. Secondly the evidence is indisputable anyone who is or is considering becoming an ISP contractor cannot afford to believe even for a moment that they are set for life and that includes Mr. IWBF and his inconsequential little company. The courts and the IRS and indirectly the Teamsters are responsible for the creation of his little company and their involvement in these proceedings is not over and the volatility their pending actions creates isthe reason why I've been on this site and that is to caution ISP's or those thinking of becoming one of that volatility.
In the not too distant future I believe the courts are going to get so tired of having their dockets clogged with worker misclassification cases that they will ask Congress to pass legislation to once and for all clearly define just what is an independent contractor because as Bounty mentioned the Uber case may be the tipping point. In fact the IRS has it's own 11 point criteria that in their view is the definition of what is an independent contractor and they want it to become rule of law.

In the meantime Mr. IWBF and his little company assuming that it does exist means no more to FXG than any other ISP in the sense that collectively they are for the tiime being a lawful source of cheap trucking and labor, that's all they represent. Now if you are operating in a pretty good demography as IWBF implies you might be okay but if you are in my demography which several FXG managers told me is by far the worst in the region , the cheap labor supply, easy stops, fast and easy revenue production and a modern road system is much harder to come by .By the way Mr oldrps you better believe things have changed and everyone connected with this endevor must be prepared for a lot more to come. It may serve them well but could just as easily not
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
bacha,

If it were just McDonald's, X, uber, and a dozen other companies, you might be spot on. The fact is, however, so much of the entire economy is settled on contract work that the decision of 3 (political appointees) NLRB officials when it is all said and done will mean little. Oh, they might move things a little here and there, but in the end there will still be huge loopholes for companies to steer through. Hell, X is probably 90% there with all the annual compliance records they require.

And then, sometime in the future, republicans will put business friendly folks on the board and wipe clean nearly all semblance of regulation...except of course the strict accounting of taxation.
Sorry to.burst your bubble, but X legal has been on this for a few years now.
 

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
Oh Bacha, what color is the sky on your planet? You think congress will pass a law to limit business? What money will be behind that?
What makes you think FedEx won't be able to alter the agreement to meet these new requirements even if they came to pass?
ISP has multiple benefits to FedEx. Better compliance with current law and the elimination of contractors like you that believe and act like they are fedex employees.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
Look Mr. It will be fine. No sane person would so rigorously defend a company of which your not even employed. Most employees do not go as far as you do to defend their employer. Your's sounds like a situation where this little ISP you have is the first bit of prosperity you have known. Naturally you will defend the source of that prosperity. The result is that you could't possibly sound more like an employee. In fact few employees have their heads up the posterior of their employers as far as you have yours up X's.. You and bbsam are simply confirming what I said earlier, the strong possibility of change and upheavel courtesy of several possible sources some political, some not. The only difference between me and you two is that you believe that no matter happens you will always be safe in the bosom of Fedex and bbsam believes in a perpetual Republican political majority that courtesy of his 1 vote will always place his personal interests right at the top of their agenda.Just keep one thing in mind. Those who brag the loudest about their tolerance for risk are the ones who cry the loudest when risk becomes reality .
 

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
Look Mr. It will be fine. No sane person would so rigorously defend a company of which your not even employed. Most employees do not go as far as you do to defend their employer. Your's sounds like a situation where this little ISP you have is the first bit of prosperity you have known. Naturally you will defend the source of that prosperity. The result is that you could't possibly sound more like an employee. In fact few employees have their heads up the posterior of their employers as far as you have yours up X's.. You and bbsam are simply confirming what I said earlier, the strong possibility of change and upheavel courtesy of several possible sources some political, some not. The only difference between me and you two is that you believe that no matter happens you will always be safe in the bosom of Fedex and bbsam believes in a perpetual Republican political majority that courtesy of his 1 vote will always place his personal interests right at the top of their agenda.Just keep one thing in mind. Those who brag the loudest about their tolerance for risk are the ones who cry the loudest when risk becomes reality .
I'm sure this response makes sense to you, but answer the actual question. What makes you believe Ground won't be able to comply with whatever change may take place with contractor designation?
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Look Mr. It will be fine. No sane person would so rigorously defend a company of which your not even employed. Most employees do not go as far as you do to defend their employer. Your's sounds like a situation where this little ISP you have is the first bit of prosperity you have known. Naturally you will defend the source of that prosperity. The result is that you could't possibly sound more like an employee. In fact few employees have their heads up the posterior of their employers as far as you have yours up X's.. You and bbsam are simply confirming what I said earlier, the strong possibility of change and upheavel courtesy of several possible sources some political, some not. The only difference between me and you two is that you believe that no matter happens you will always be safe in the bosom of Fedex and bbsam believes in a perpetual Republican political majority that courtesy of his 1 vote will always place his personal interests right at the top of their agenda.Just keep one thing in mind. Those who brag the loudest about their tolerance for risk are the ones who cry the loudest when risk becomes reality .
You couldn't be more wrong. It is not a perpetual Republican majority. It is a perpetual CAPITALISTIC business majority.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
I had a couple of contractors in the 90's that were contracted at RPS and had operations at other companies. When I was working there, the contract did not state the contractor could not work anywhere else. I doubt that has changed.

The contractors can use their vans for other purposes as long as they cover the FedEx logos. The vans the contractor uses are pretty much dedicated to servicing FedEx. It would be very hard to utilize the van away from FedEx due to using it all during the day, unloaded early evening, then loaded early am, then having them loaded on Saturday for Monday delivery.

The successful contractors understood the importance of running a business. I had many single van contractors that thought like employees and didn't understand how to find tax breaks, simple bookkeeping, planning for contingencies, etc. These contractors struggled where the contractors that knew how to run a business thrived.

I know a lot has changed since I left. From what I read on these boards, FedEx is going the right direction by moving to multi route contractors. RPS did not like the idea of the multi route contractors when I was there and it did prevent many contractors to grow their business.

FedEx has been blessed for years with a poor economy and high unemployment which allows the contractors to find cheap labor. I do think as the economy improves, it will be very hard for the contractors to find people to work very cheaply. FedEx will have to deal with contractors with high turnover which will cause sporadic poor service in many areas. The question is if they raised what they pay the contractors, would the contractors pass it to their employees? Time will tell.

I have never seen a contractor farm-out vehicles or labor for purposes other than FedEx Ground. The contract undoubtedly prohibits a FedEx-logoed vehicle from being utilized for anything other than FedEx purposes. The new trend is to have the truck or tractor say " Boris Solovsky Inc.", and below that " dba FedEx Ground" or " contracted to "FedEx Ground". FedEx would happily kill the agreement if a contractor chose to use a marked vehicle as described above.

After all, it's your business, right? But then they tell you that you can't use your vehicle for anything other than FedEx. That sounds likes Fred's business being operated by a bunch of puppets.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
First guys we should be discussing these issues over at Fed Examiner not this UPS site. Secondly the evidence is indisputable anyone who is or is considering becoming an ISP contractor cannot afford to believe even for a moment that they are set for life and that includes Mr. IWBF and his inconsequential little company. The courts and the IRS and indirectly the Teamsters are responsible for the creation of his little company and their involvement in these proceedings is not over and the volatility their pending actions creates isthe reason why I've been on this site and that is to caution ISP's or those thinking of becoming one of that volatility.
In the not too distant future I believe the courts are going to get so tired of having their dockets clogged with worker misclassification cases that they will ask Congress to pass legislation to once and for all clearly define just what is an independent contractor because as Bounty mentioned the Uber case may be the tipping point. In fact the IRS has it's own 11 point criteria that in their view is the definition of what is an independent contractor and they want it to become rule of law.

In the meantime Mr. IWBF and his little company assuming that it does exist means no more to FXG than any other ISP in the sense that collectively they are for the tiime being a lawful source of cheap trucking and labor, that's all they represent. Now if you are operating in a pretty good demography as IWBF implies you might be okay but if you are in my demography which several FXG managers told me is by far the worst in the region , the cheap labor supply, easy stops, fast and easy revenue production and a modern road system is much harder to come by .By the way Mr oldrps you better believe things have changed and everyone connected with this endevor must be prepared for a lot more to come. It may serve them well but could just as easily not


FYI. Fed Examiner is run by an attorney trolling for cases. The site isn't worth your time.
 
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