guns

[Dis-organized Labor]

Why I Carry a Gun

I don't carry a gun to kill people. I carry a gun to keep from being killed.

I don't carry a gun to scare people. I carry a gun because sometimes this world can be a scary place.

I don't carry a gun because I'm paranoid. I carry a gun because there are real threats in the world.

I don't carry a gun because I'm evil. I carry a gun because I have lived long enough to see the evil in the world.

I don't carry a gun because I hate the government. I carry a gun because I understand the limitations of government.

I don't carry a gun because I'm angry. I carry a gun so that I don't have to spend the rest of my life hating myself for failing to be prepared.

I don't carry a gun because I want to shoot someone. I carry a gun because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed, and not on a sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon.

I don't carry a gun because I'm a cowboy. I carry a gun because, when I die and go to Heaven, I want to be a cowboy.

I don't carry a gun to make me feel like a man. I carry a gun because men know how to take care of themselves and the ones they love.

I don't carry a gun because I feel inadequate. I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate.

I don't carry a gun because I love it. I carry a gun because I love life and the people who make it meaningful to me.

​

As I was saying to AJ and Dilli: "That's not a gun, I'm just happy to see you".

 

[island1fox]

Upstate,

I wasn't gonna even respond to this thread at all until I saw Island's comments to you. I own guns myself, several pistols but like you I never carry and never have. Never had a carry permit because never saw the need and still don't even with Obama as President. Nor did I rush out and buy 50 more guns or a tractor trailer load of ammo. "The Sky is Falling! The Sky is Falling!"


Besides I reload so what the hey!

I just wanted to say publically I respect a lot of what you said after reading the later comments made to you. I stand with you in defending and championing your beliefs and my heart felt for your family tragedy. Gun owners need to get it through their thick skulls that their right doesn't extend everywhere including onto another person's property and yes that extends to the employer's property too. Their right to their property trumps your right to bare arms every "friend'ing" time. If you don't ask, seek permission or make property owner aware, you are dishonoring property rights and comitting a fraud. If said property owner sez no to firearms and you do so anyway, you've committed a fraud and should suffer what befalls you.

If gunowners were true they'd open carry and then any property owner (business) could defend their own rights and either tell you to leave or continue business. No shoes, No shirt, No service. Same is true of any person who could then choose to interact with you or not. You are enjoying your right while respecting the rights of others in their person, property and/or beliefs. It's an extension of my belief in no force/no fraud.

And a lot of jurisdictions allow open carry with no permission required or needed by the State but that right ends once you leave the public space or your private domain and then becomes a priviledge based on the consent of a privater property owner. Now there's your true right so practice it not bowing down to some State taxeater begging for a permission slip to hide-a-gun. As you might guess I'm not exactly pro conceal carry mostly because to grovel at the State for momma's permission.

I'm a believer if you carry, do so in the open as I would if I carried. Besides, a crook walks into a business to do harm and sees half the clientel openly carrying, you think that crook will consider a change of afternoon plans?


Nuff said!

Moreluck,
I am sure that you realize it is the law in many states that you cannot openly carry.
In my state it is easy to get a concealed carry permit if you have a clean record --but the key word is concealed. Also I want to be very clear --If you choose not to own a gun --your choice--if my gun is not permitted on your private property or in your home or business --I personally would absolutely respect your wishes. I just expect other people to respect my right to choose to own a gun. Sounds simple enough.

 

[bbsam]

Actually I've thought about getting a gun but only after 2-3years martial arts training. If I convince myself a gun is for protection, I want it to be last line of defense with many in between. Plus would be good discipline and good for the 20lbs I put on in the last 10 years. Only problem is by the time 2-3 years was up I'd probably see only futility in a gun as self defense. Still might take the training and bring the family along.

 

[diesel96]

I am a proud gun(s) owner. I do not support the NRA, but do support the 2nd Amendment to an extent. However 1) I don't want convicted felons buying guns unless a substantial period of time goes by after release and they prove and are pre-determine they are once again productive non threatening citizens. 2) I don't want mentally unstable or mentally challenged people buying guns. 3) I want a 5-7 day "cooling off" period with new gun owners. 4) I want background checkers held liable at gun shows. 5) I want Law Enforcement authorities to carry bigger badder guns and ammo than the general public unless your a qualified gun collector, instructor or designated liscense holder for commercial purposes. And 6) I will openly chastise Libertarians who are openly carrying guns to political events, legal or not. JMHO.

 

[soberups]

. I do respect the rights of others in respect to firearms--I only ask that you respect mine. Dave.

Owning and carrying a weapon is a personal choice. For some, its the right choice...for others it isnt. I completely respect your choice and I am glad that you respect mine. Unfortunately, many of those who share your dislike of guns believe that they have the right to force that choice upon others.

 

[soberups]

I don't own a gun because I have three very bright, young, and curious children in the house.

I keep my guns locked in a steel vault because I had two very bright and curious children in the house. They are grown up now, but the guns are still locked up.

 

[PT Stewie]

You should try buying a gun in New Jersey.Local, state,and FBI investigation to get a firearm purchasing card that allows you to buy shot guns and rifles.Hand guns are a one gun at a time permit for a specific gun and a limited window of time to purchase.

 

[soberups]

If gunowners were true they'd open carry and then any property owner (business) could defend their own rights and either tell you to leave or continue business. No shoes, No shirt, No service. Same is true of any person who could then choose to interact with you or not. You are enjoying your right while respecting the rights of others in their person, property and/or beliefs. It's an extension of my belief in no force/no fraud.

Open carry is a good way to freak the general public out and wind up proned out on the pavement in front of 6 cops who are pointing their weapons at you.

I have a concealed weapon permit. What I am carrying inside my waistband is no one's business but my own. The fact that I am legally armed has no effect on my dealings with others, except that in many cases I am more polite and I go to even greater lengths to avoid any sort of disagreement or conflict that could escalate.

If I am cut off in traffic...I let it go. No gestures, no honking, no aggressive behavior.

If someone bumps into me...I say "excuse me, I'm sorry".

If someone insults me...I walk away. As an armed citizen I have a responsibility to check my ego at the door and refuse to participate in any sort of argument that could potentially escalate into a physical encounter.

I am a non-violent person, whether armed or not. The only difference that having a gun makes...is that if all other measures to defuse the situation have failed and my life or the lives of my family are threatened, I have one final option available to me.

 

[soberups]

A partial list over the last 10 years...

Westside Middle School, Jonesboro AR 3/24/98----5 students killed in a "gun-free zone"

Thurston High School, Eugene OR (my hometown) 5/20/98---2 dead and 25 wounded in a "gun-free zone"

Columbine High School, Littleton CO 5/20/99---15 dead and 22 wounded in a "gun-free zone"

Red Lake HS, Red Lake MN 3/21/05--8 dead in a "gun-free zone"

Amish school, Nickel Mines PA 10/02/06---6 dead in a "gun-free zone"

Virginia Tech, Blacksburg VA 4/16/07---33 dead and 25 wounded in a "gun-free zone"

North Illinois U, DeKalb ILL 2/14/08---6 dead and 18 wounded in a "gun-free zone"


In the last 10 years, over 120 unarmed people have been murdered in posted, designated "gun-free zones" all over the country.

How many more innocent, unarmed victims will be slaughtered at the altar of political correctness? How many more must die so that we can preserve the pathetic fantasy of the "gun-free zone" in the minds of people who think that safety from violence is as simple as posting a "no guns allowed" sign on a wall?

In the real world...murderers seek out places where they know their victims will be unarmed. That is why you dont see mass murders at gun shows.

 

[island1fox]

I am a proud gun(s) owner. I do not support the NRA, but do support the 2nd Amendment to an extent. However 1) I don't want convicted felons buying guns unless a substantial period of time goes by after release and they prove and are pre-determine they are once again productive non threatening citizens. 2) I don't want mentally unstable or mentally challenged people buying guns. 3) I want a 5-7 day "cooling off" period with new gun owners. 4) I want background checkers held liable at gun shows. 5) I want Law Enforcement authorities to carry bigger badder guns and ammo than the general public unless your a qualified gun collector, instructor or designated liscense holder for commercial purposes. And 6) I will openly chastise Libertarians who are openly carrying guns to political events, legal or not. JMHO.

Diesel96,
I know this will be a surprise to you ---but I agree with most of your post.
I am a liitle uncomfortable with the felons ----but substanstial time would have to be very defined-----it just leads into the argument that every time a felon or thug commits a crime with a gun ----the cry goes out that my gun and every american's gun should be confiscated.

 

[island1fox]

A partial list over the last 10 years...

Westside Middle School, Jonesboro AR 3/24/98----5 students killed in a "gun-free zone"

Thurston High School, Eugene OR (my hometown) 5/20/98---2 dead and 25 wounded in a "gun-free zone"

Columbine High School, Littleton CO 5/20/99---15 dead and 22 wounded in a "gun-free zone"

Red Lake HS, Red Lake MN 3/21/05--8 dead in a "gun-free zone"

Amish school, Nickel Mines PA 10/02/06---6 dead in a "gun-free zone"

Virginia Tech, Blacksburg VA 4/16/07---33 dead and 25 wounded in a "gun-free zone"

North Illinois U, DeKalb ILL 2/14/08---6 dead and 18 wounded in a "gun-free zone"


In the last 10 years, over 120 unarmed people have been murdered in posted, designated "gun-free zones" all over the country.

How many more innocent, unarmed victims will be slaughtered at the altar of political correctness? How many more must die so that we can preserve the pathetic fantasy of the "gun-free zone" in the minds of people who think that safety from violence is as simple as posting a "no guns allowed" sign on a wall?

In the real world...murderers seek out places where they know their victims will be unarmed. That is why you dont see mass murders at gun shows.

soberups,
In how many of these horrible crimes --was the weapon owned and used by a legal licensed citizen ??
Most gun crimes are not with licensed guns ---if they are not going to license them --why would they respect any sign.
To solve this problem ---bleeding hearts have to get out of the way--unlawful gun possession should have maximum prison terms---long terms --no parole !!!

 

[Catatonic]

In the real world...murderers seek out places where they know their victims will be unarmed. That is why you dont see mass murders at gun shows.

Sounds like a challenge!

Didn't 4 policemen get shot at a do-nut shop up your way?

Agree with you though. Don't see gun pacifists with signs in their frontyard saying this house has no guns.

 

[soberups]

Sounds like a challenge!

Didn't 4 policemen get shot at a do-nut shop up your way?

Agree with you though. Don't see gun pacifists with signs in their frontyard saying this house has no guns.

The murderer was a pychopath who formed a premeditated intent to ambush and kill the officers.

The news reports indicate that 2 of the cops were shot "execution-style"...meaning from behind, in the back of the head. The 3rd cop was shot as he stood up and attempted to draw his weapon. The 4th cop was able to draw his weapon, fire, and hit the murderer in the gut before being killed himself.

I cannot help but to wonder if the outcome might have been different if one or more civilians with concealed weapon permits had been having coffee there that day. While they probably could not have prevented the first 3 murders, they might have been able to assist the 4th officer in getting some extra lead into the scumbag. Bear in mind that the murderer did not target the barista or the two other customers that were there.


Incidentally...as a convicted felon, the murderer was legally prohibited from posessing a firearm, as well as being prohibited from obtaining a permit to carry a concealed firearm. He broke both of these laws in addition to breaking the laws that prohibit murder. Had the coffee shop been posted as a "gun-free zone", would this have stopped him? I dont think so, but I am sure that there will be plenty of liberals who will whine and cry for even more laws, more restrictions and more "gun-free" zones in a futile attempt to "do something' about the problem.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I do agree that "gun free" and "drug free" designations are simply lip service and have no impact. The only time they come in to play is if a crime is committed within either or both of those zones the sentence is increased.

On a side note, I would love to see "cell phone free" zones, especially at my favorite restaurant.

 

[dilligaf]

Most everyone knows that I am pro guns. Az is an open carry state and a CCW state. I carry both ways.

Dave, you have the right to your beliefs. I would never try to dissuade you from those beliefs. I whole heartedly agree that you have the right to not have guns and respect your right to not be around them or have them around you.

bbsam and grgr - I agree with grgr, teach your kids about guns and they will be more likely to respect them. My kids grew up around them. Never had any issues. They were taught at an early age.

av8t - you are right. My personal opinion is that gun legislation is getting way out of control. Now, before anyone starts to jump on me, I am not saying that I don't think we should have any legislation. Far from the truth. I agree that convicted criminals should not have guns. I agree that the mentally unstable should not have guns. One law in AZ is that if you have been convicted of DV you cannot own a gun. I absolutely agree. What I do not agree with is the government legislating mandatory gun registrations.

Island - I think you bring up a good point in that many of us feel that we are safe in our environments. I feel I am safe in mine as well. Dave I hope yours will always be safe. But the truth of the matter is that we are not safe anymore. The truth is that at any given time anything can and does happen.

We had a road rage incident here less than a year ago. Mind you, I live in a relatively small community, so these types of things rarely happen here. Anyway this road rage thing started out on the highway and ended in the local grocery store parking lot. It ended with one man dead (the attacker). The attacker came after the other person with an axe and was shot and killed for his efforts. It was a shock in our town. Things like this never happen.

mac - I couldn't agree with you more. We, as gun owners need to respect the rights of Dave and others. Just as we should have the right to carry, Dave should have the right to not carry and not be around guns. Az is one of those states that allow open carry and just as you have said the right to open carry ends at someone elses property line. Caveat: It is assumed (here) that open carry is permissible unless otherwise posted. There are a few variances in the laws here when it comes to public buildings. Such as, I can open carry into any bank, unless they have posted no guns allowed. I can carry concealed into a bar as long as I am not drinking (this just went into effect). There are nuances in regards to government buildings/property as well.

DOL - WOW! That was a big 'happy to see you'.

Sober - We have a gun safe and it is used but I do not keep every gun in it. There is no point in having a gun if I have to say wait a minute I need to go get my gun to a criminal. Right at this minute my 9mm is on my computer desk. I do not agree with you on the open carry freaking people out. One gets used to what one lives around. Mac said that criminals would be less likely to commit a crime if everyone open carried. I agree. But I also believe that applies to concealed carry.


Dave, I am sorry for your tragedy. I wish I could say it so you could hear it. So you would know that I truly mean it. What happened has influenced you in who you are and where you are now. That is not a bad thing. You are neither naive or foolish nor are you less of a man because you choose to not have guns. Guns do not make the man. You are who you are and I personally would not ask for anyone different.

 

[dilligaf]

An interesting letter in the Australian Shooter Magazine this week:


"If you consider that there has been an average of 160,000 troops in the Iraq theatre of operations during the

past 22 months, and a total of 2112 deaths, that gives a firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000 soldiers.
"The firearm death rate in Washington, DC is 80.6 per 100,000 for the same period.
That means you are about 25 percent more likely to be shot and killed in the U.S. capital, which has some of

the strictest gun control laws in the U.S., than you are in Iraq."


Conclusion: The U.S. should pull out of Washington.

 

[Jones]

An interesting letter in the Australian Shooter Magazine this week:


"If you consider that there has been an average of 160,000 troops in the Iraq theatre of operations during the

past 22 months, and a total of 2112 deaths, that gives a firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000 soldiers.
"The firearm death rate in Washington, DC is 80.6 per 100,000 for the same period.
That means you are about 25 percent more likely to be shot and killed in the U.S. capital, which has some of

the strictest gun control laws in the U.S., than you are in Iraq."


Conclusion: The U.S. should pull out of Washington.

Those types of comparisons always ignore the actual death rate in Iraq, which includes all the Iraqi civilians. To be more consistent they should compare the death rate of US troops to the death rate of DC police officers. But then they wouldn't get to make the same point

 

[dilligaf]

Those types of comparisons always ignore the actual death rate in Iraq, which includes all the Iraqi civilians. To be more consistent they should compare the death rate of US troops to the death rate of DC police officers. But then they wouldn't get to make the same point

It is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less. Changing the parameters of the statistics doesn't make it more consistent, it only changes the statistics.

 

[Jones]

It is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less. Changing the parameters of the statistics doesn't make it more consistent, it only changes the statistics.

No it's not. They are comparing two different sets of parameters as if they are the same. The death rate in DC includes everyone who is a victim of gun violence, not just a select group. To be fair they would compare they total death rate in DC to the total death rate in Baghdad. But the magazine you quoted isn't really interested in doing an actual analysis, they're just trying to be clever. And I'm sure you knew that

 

[wkmac]

"The firearm death rate in Washington, DC is 80.6 per 100,000 for the same period. That means you are about 25 percent more likely to be shot and killed in the U.S. capital

BUT....BUT.....BUT....OK Dammit!