Has the Teamsters sold you out?

[tieguy]

What ever happened to the ".....$7000 a month" pension payment to members the company stood before Congress and claimed they could provide if the company controlled/took over the pension?
I've seen one other poster on this board ask the same question. I vividly recall reading that language in the transcript after the congressional investigation but, alas, I haven't heard any more about it, hmmmm........

you have to fix the car first before you talk about running it at daytona. I saw many of the video clips of our people speaking in front of congress, I don't recall our people ever promising they could fix CS and create a pension plan that immediately paid 7 grand a month. Perhaps you could pull up this eye popping claim so we can all enjoy it.

Again perhaps we should back off on trying to fix the CS pension mess. It appears our people don't appreciate what we are trying to do here.

 

[tieguy]

People will thank them as soon as they start collecting their pensions.

Tieguy I am still curious on your thoughts on the part time fill in drivers pandoras box I refered to in last post.

Please enlighten me

Looks like it gives us some flexibility that will allow us to give some time off and shorten some paid days which I believe is what our people are asking for.

 

[GuyinBrown]

What ever happened to the ".....$7000 a month" pension payment to members the company stood before Congress and claimed they could provide if the company controlled/took over the pension?
I've seen one other poster on this board ask the same question. I vividly recall reading that language in the transcript after the congressional investigation but, alas, I haven't heard any more about it, hmmmm........

I didn't see any of the transcripts you're speaking of, but that amount sounds a lot like the claims the apwa was making. Are you sure you're not confusing the two?

 

[JonFrum]

six billion is a lot of money.. I don't think I've seen one poster here that appreciates ups is willing to spend it. So in hind sight i wish we would have let cS continue to sink and kept the six billion

Tie, UPS has little choice. They owe the $6.1 billion to the Central States Fund. Period. It's not a gift. It's a debt they legally owe. And they don't owe it to the UPS employees, they owe it to the Fund. It's not part of contract negotiations. If UPS chose to stay in Central States, then they would have to pay the $6.1 bilion in the form of higher monthly contribution rates. If UPS withdraws, they must pay in the form of Withdrawal Liability. Either way, they must pay. UPS doesn't just guarantee they will make hourly contributions on our behalf, they also guarantee that the money will be there in the fund to pay our retirement in the future, even if the fund looses a fortune in the stock market. One way or the other, UPS, and all the other employers, guarantee the payment of future benefits. That PBGC Insurance Plan we've spoken of is just a backup plan. The first-line insurance plan is the ERISA guarantee that currently contributing employers will pay higher rates, and that withdrawing employers will pay Withdrawal Liability.

It's like paying a mortgage. You owe the full amount; But you only pay a thousand dollars or so a month. However, if you try to sell the house or move, you must pay it all off in one lump sum. But either way, you owe the entire amount. The only escape is for the employer to declare bankruptcy. Even then the fund will have first claim on the company's remaining assets.

 

[BrownShark2]

I'm confused. thought you folks asked your teamster leaders to fix the pensions? If so then whats the issue here besides engineer being apwa?

tieguy,

Im confused over your statement? You keep speaking about the "pensions" being fixed in a plural form?

Which pension(s) plural are you referring to?

Officially, only one Teamster p e n s i o n plan is in jeopardy. That would be the CS plan.

To the West and East, the CS plan is not our issue. This is only a fraction of the issues at play in this agreement.

Out here in the West, our pension plan is 100% fully funded and holds one of the top accrual rates of all the pension plans in the United States. In fact, its in the top five of ALL pension plans in the USA.

So please, dont speak as if UPS is doing my pension any favors, our trustees have done that job admirably.

Peace.

 

[tieguy]

Tie, UPS has little choice. They owe the $6.1 billion to the Central States Fund. Period. It's not a gift. It's a debt they legally owe.

Thats up for debate and part of the misinformation camapaign you and others spread to somehow try to minimize the what ups is doing here to help fix the pensions of its people. The 6.1 billion has to be paid for us to withdraw and for us to now create a seperate pension plan that fixes the pensions for our people in CS. UPS does not have to do anything they are doing with this contract.


It's like paying a mortgage. You owe the full amount;

If you sign up for a mortagage that never ends. Not a very good example jon.

someone must like you their now pushing your non member posts through in record time.

 

[browned out]

Looks like it gives us some flexibility that will allow us to give some time off and shorten some paid days which I believe is what our people are asking for. [/QUOTE

Part time cover driver will not work if any full time driver is layed off.

Why wouldn't a driver in progression have the right to work before a part time cover driver? To keep them from going full time and having to be given full time pay and benefits.

Under this provision a part time cover driver could work full time hours in a year and stll only acrue part time benefits and pension.

Please address without dancing around question.]

UPS had to lolrof when they got the teamsters to agree to this

 

[farmerbrown]

You all can piss and moan back and forth about all these numbers, but the facts are that my medical insurance(deducibles, copays, prescriptions, etc) and my pension( every year for the last several, age for retirement is going up and amount of monthly pension I would receive is going down) are in the dumper. I don't know if the APWA is the answer or not, but at least they are offering some ideas. I have yet to hear any solutions from the mighty Teamsters on this matter. UPS is contributing a lot of money( and has been for a long time for me). I have been a Teamster for over 20 years, and I want whats best for us all, but when the majority of the money contributed for me goes to some retiree whose company has long ago closed up, I say stop the BS. I have to look out for me and my family. I have given too much to this company to have it all just be pissed away. Come on Teamsters, put up or shut up. Lets hear some concrete ideas.

Right on my copays and non covered services/prescriptions get worse every year. UPS may give us a raise every year but they get it all back by increasing copays and lengthening the progression time. Not much of deal if you ask me. If this type of negotiating keeps up we might as well work for FEDEX Ground and have a goatee.

 

[tieguy]

tieguy,

Im confused over your statement? You keep speaking about the "pensions" being fixed in a plural form?

Which pension(s) plural are you referring to?

Officially, only one Teamster p e n s i o n plan is in jeopardy. That would be the CS plan.

You have the cs solution. You have half of the overall monetary gains being dedicated to the pension plans. you have the option that allows your union to dedicate additional financial increases to the pension if needed. Seems like a sincere effort by both sides to shore up the pensions.

To the West and East, the CS plan is not our issue. This is only a fraction of the issues at play in this agreement.

Out here in the West, our pension plan is 100% fully funded and holds one of the top accrual rates of all the pension plans in the United States. In fact, its in the top five of ALL pension plans in the USA.

So please, dont speak as if UPS is doing my pension any favors, our trustees have done that job admirably.

Ok so since your plan which is one of 21 multi-employer plans is in good shape I should not discuss ups's overall effort to improve all pensions? Sounds a little selfish my friend.

 

[tieguy]

Looks like it gives us some flexibility that will allow us to give some time off and shorten some paid days which I believe is what our people are asking for. [/QUOTE

Part time cover driver will not work if any full time driver is layed off.

Why wouldn't a driver in progression have the right to work before a part time cover driver? To keep them from going full time and having to be given full time pay and benefits.

Under this provision a part time cover driver could work full time hours in a year and stll only acrue part time benefits and pension.

Please address without dancing around question.]

UPS had to lolrof when they got the teamsters to agree to this

Looks like it gives us some flexibility that will allow us to give some time off and shorten some paid days which I believe is what our people are asking for.

Just in case you missed my answer the first time.

I was not there for the negotiations so I can't speak to all the whys but it looks like we asked for part time drivers for specific areas where a part time driver would help us help cover specific issues of coverage and time off that you folks asked us to address.

 

[sawdusttv]

What ever happened to the ".....$7000 a month" pension payment to members the company stood before Congress and claimed they could provide if the company controlled/took over the pension?
I've seen one other poster on this board ask the same question. I vividly recall reading that language in the transcript after the congressional investigation but, alas, I haven't heard any more about it, hmmmm........

Ya, trick, I asked that very question a couple of months back but no one had an answer.

 

[sawdusttv]

Looks like it gives us some flexibility that will allow us to give some time off and shorten some paid days which I believe is what our people are asking for.

HA! HA! HA! That's a good one!!!!!!!!!

 

[sawdusttv]

Tie, UPS has little choice. They owe the $6.1 billion to the Central States Fund. Period. It's not a gift. It's a debt they legally owe. And they don't owe it to the UPS employees, they owe it to the Fund. It's not part of contract negotiations. If UPS chose to stay in Central States, then they would have to pay the $6.1 bilion in the form of higher monthly contribution rates. If UPS withdraws, they must pay in the form of Withdrawal Liability. Either way, they must pay. UPS doesn't just guarantee they will make hourly contributions on our behalf, they also guarantee that the money will be there in the fund to pay our retirement in the future, even if the fund looses a fortune in the stock market. One way or the other, UPS, and all the other employers, guarantee the payment of future benefits. That PBGC Insurance Plan we've spoken of is just a backup plan. The first-line insurance plan is the ERISA guarantee that currently contributing employers will pay higher rates, and that withdrawing employers will pay Withdrawal Liability.

It's like paying a mortgage. You owe the full amount; But you only pay a thousand dollars or so a month. However, if you try to sell the house or move, you must pay it all off in one lump sum. But either way, you owe the entire amount. The only escape is for the employer to declare bankruptcy. Even then the fund will have first claim on the company's remaining assets.

Very good explanation, although this might be way over managements head!

 

[browned out]

HA! HA! HA! That's a good one!!!!!!!!!

And that was after I asked twice or three times for an accurate explanation.

"its ok to falsify the records, just dont falsify those records.