How can UPS survive ....


.....into these next hundred years. UPS has lost some of its shine from the shield, yes fellow upsers its true you see it too. From the day to day operations in all aspects of the service side of this great company. Yes we have growth (it's the economy stupid) but we have major problems too. Granted it would take a few decades maybe more to run this company into the ground but lets not go there. I'm not here to post doom and gloom but to ask what can be done to regain that greatness we had. Many people would say I'm wrong but think about it. Run through your mind what UPS used to demand from its self and what it now settles for. From clerks to drivers we are now unable to give the best service for the money. A few examples: Infrastructure buildings 20 years outdated or more, poor training of new employees low morale bad attitude cussing at customers is now normal (we have a nice Hip Hop mentality), 8.50$ starting wage (west coast) you get what you pay for,damaged parcel everywhere yeah you've seen what i mean,damaged UPS vehicles no one held accountable just get the boxes out the hub, management that has no clue of what it takes to deliver a package like I.E. dept they just hand down new rules no idea how it will work,feeder drivers that sleep for hours at $27+ per hr or overtime $40+ per hr no accountability,theft from all angles remember that $8.50 an hr they have to supplement their income some how, should i continue ok what about calling 1800pickups LOL and the billing of our customers I had one account tell me how she was treated like a dead beat for a $12.50 past due bill,and the UNION where DUE I begin with them..... please someone tell me HOW CAN THIS COMPANY SURVIVE... at least till they finish paying into my pension in 25yrs.:bored:
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Well-Known Member

Simple fix! Go back to being a privately owned company, when we were more concerned about service, than the bottomline. Seems to me that our troubles started when we went public. Stockholders want to know why FEDEX stock is blowing us out of the water! The company is unfortunately cutting corners to try and please them. We did well for 90 yrs, why fix something that ain't broke! I planned on working until I was 55, but the way things are going, I'll leave when I get my 30 in. Seeing the light at the end of the tunnel with 4 to go!! Cheers Stealth8


Jim Casey would cry if he was alive to see what they`ve done to his company.I personally own no stock but I agree that it sure seemed to start going downhill after going public.It got more production oriented in the belief that saving money at the core is saving in the long run.How wrong they were.Ok lets put millions into PAS so even a gerbil could load the truck...ok it makes sense for every package to have its spot in the truck,but even gerbils dont work that hard for peanuts.The APWA is trying hard to oust the teamsters ,which can only be a good thing.The teamsters have sucked billions of dollars out of us upsers over the years.
In my opinion ,no union at all would be sweet,the best thing they could do is get rid of the driver sup position.Let drivers train drivers,reloop routes,decide how many stops actually need to be done in every area for a 9.5 hour day.I`m passionate about this,I hate not having time to do the job properly,and I think Jim would agree with me.


It would be interesting to see what Jim thought of some of the modern technology we use to do the job. I personally believe the pas / edd concept will some day give us the means to provide almost perfect service. I also think we have a lot of bugs to work out in the meantime. I would think Jim might like the technology but think we did a poor job rolling it out and selling it with employee involvement.


Well-Known Member
stealth8 said:
Stockholders want to know why FEDEX stock is blowing us out of the water!

Our stock and FedEx's are really two different beasts. While we scrimp and save so we can give our shareholders gigantic dividends, FedEx rarely gives anything of value. UPS stock is geared towards rewarding shareholders through dividends, which is a reason to hold onto your shares, especially if you are an individual shareholder. FedEx, on the other hand, has tremendous growth, but it order to actualize that return you would have to sell your stock... nicer for the institutional investors, yeah, but not for us little guys.

I do agree, though, that privatiziation would be nicer. I would prefer to see all UPS stock in the hands of both hourlies and management. Keep in mind, though that only 10% of our outstanding shares are available as class B stock, so maybe we aren't as "public" as we think.

And tie is right - PAS 1.0, right now, is a POS. But with time (and, God-willing, more money) it will be better. Everything improves. You wouldn't want to use a DIAD I today, a carburetor on your fuel-injected car, or surf over to Brown Cafe on an Apple 2.


Well-Known Member
Dave you are right.When I started, if the vehicle had a scratch on it you were called into the office.All our vehicles front fenders are missing chunks of fiberglass due to carwash and the 40 year old building being too small. They had little 500 pkg cars when this hub was built.
As for technology we have come a long way but for the WRONG reason.
It is not used for the customer, it is used to follow the drivers every move.
Most drivers try to help their customers.I was told it is not cost worthy to stop a second time at a pickup [nextday airs] as I am drivig by anyway.
You figure their bottom line!!!!!!!!!!!


APWA Hater
When I was at this company for just 1 year at 19, i'm 21 now, I had my center on road sup tell me I went "too far, above and beyond" what I am supposed to do. I am still a part time clerk & air driver and what I was trying to do was locate this package for a customer to pick up. I was "wasting to much time trying to locate it in the hub, and I had more work to finish." The package was one of those insulated packs of insulin.

Hell, when tried the cover driving thing, the on road sup had NO idea where she was going. She was more concerned that I wasn't jogging to my stops...and then at some houses I had a few ederly people that had to sign for some packages and she'd be in the truck YELLING at me to just not ready 1 or not in 1 even though I had heard the old lady's say "just a minute i'm coming!" through the window. It conflicted everything I had been forced to watch in those videos.:closedeye


Well-Known Member
iloadthetruck:can you tell me what you mean by 10% of the shares is all that are class B? The way I fiqure it, it is 60.34% today or about 654,580,500.


Well-Known Member
It boils down to thoughtful, responsible work. We walk a fine line of caring for our customers and doing our jobs to the best of our ability. I've seen drivers ruining their routes by bad attitudes, forcing the customer to adhere to the driver's wants. I once had to cover two stops off a route next to mine when the customers told UPS they never wanted to see that driver again. That kind of shoddy work is what will bury us, and there are a few too many drivers who think they are on easy street the second they get their first route.


Well-Known Member
ups79 said:
iloadthetruck:can you tell me what you mean by 10% of the shares is all that are class B? The way I fiqure it, it is 60.34% today or about 654,580,500.

Hey, ups79, you're right. I was wrong! I was looking at some DESPP materials I was given about a year ago, but they could be even older than that. I just looked at our 10-K from the annual report... yowza. about 444 million class A shares and 648 million class B. I guess I should start buying more shares. (Considering at the moment I've got a 26% gain on my stock due to the discount... not a bad idea.)


Most Awesome Dog
Staff member
Well I am still at the point of giving service. If I hear an old person yell they will be there, give them a minute. If I know its some lazy a** and they are finishing their dishes or a phone call(and think I am their private servant) I will do my best to drive away, before they get there, they will have the door wide open waiting the next. The difference is KNOWING, where a swing driver may not have that advantage.
The day I cannot do that is the day I will be fired, because $ or not that is common courtesy, and I cannot ignore that, dont matter how much they pay me. And that is why medications are shipped through us, because it will get there. Getting it there and leaving a note coz they are "too slow" for us is like not getting it there at all.


Most Awesome Dog
Staff member
I think the odor was just from the redneck down the street burning his plastics, but all the bad kids left.....funny tho the parent is still there. we got a surveillance camera, and showed it to the sheriff and we had kids parents coming over wanting to see it, apologizing for their offsprings, etc. And havent had a problem since. One time is all it took, a movie of these kids coming up the hill at a high rate of speed, throwing rocks everywhere, the sheriff hauled them all in by the plates documented on the video. #1 out after curfew, #2 damage to my vehicles #3 threatening me with their Rotweiller, all gone now. He told them they would not drive again til they were 21 if I had to call them was heartwarming. so Im safe for another year, at least, and I dont really know or care where they went , jail I hope. And they still think I have the camera on which was a real pain to run, but I dont worry about the garage being broken into when I am not here, coz they just arent sure if they want to take that chance or not. And they just dont want to mess with me at the moment, coz they think Im a hi tech redneck. I dont think it was ever meth, they just needed gas, and they were common criminals, not nearly resourceful enough to make anything of use to themselves or other idiots.


I'm not so sure this mentality started after the stock offering. Many of us noticed it changing after the strike. Lots of customers would not accept the packages from the supervisors that tried to deliver them, and they were told to bring them back after the strike was settled. These actions left a very bad taste in the mouths of management, and I believe(jmho) that this is where it started to go down hill.

The stock that has been issued to the public is still a Class B stock. The votes from these shares are still diluted and the company will never allow the public to make its policy. The Class A stock owners are still majority held by management, and will probably always be. They will run the company the way they believe it will make the most profit.

We, as drivers, must still thrive to treat the customers with the utmost respect. They still pay our salaries. Make that extra effort, ie, stopping by for that late NDA pickup, going out of your way to deliver medications, etc, for it is us that will be the image of UPS in the eyes of the customers. When the customer gets a rude response from the telephone centers we can se we are sorry for thier inconvience and ask them if they asked for a supervisor at the call center, or if they may want to take the time to call in a corporate complaint.

The company will survie another 100 years because there are still a couple hundred thousand drivers out there every day, striving to keep our customers happy and showing the public that we care about the neighborhoods we deliver in, care about all those little things they care about.

I have asked my fellow drivers in my area to take the time to volunteer in the comunities they work in. Getting involved in the local community doesn't just look good for UPS as a corporation, it also shows the community we care, as employees, to make the best effort we can to give back.

You see all these different publications about UPS being the most admired in the transportation industry. It's not just the corporate level that gets looked at for these surveys, it's us, on the street, being watched by the public/customers that get the results as high as they are.

Don't give up hope. That supervisor that tells you you are spending to much time with the customer will only be around for a short time in your career, same with the center manager. Tell them you respect thier opnion and will do the best you can every day to strive to be the best possible representative of UPS that you can be. Tell them you will strive every day to be the most respected delivery driver the customer ever comes into contact with. Tell them you will strive to be the best worker management will ever have. Then hit the street and do just that.

When that supervisor tells you you are not "trotting" to enough of your stops, inform him or her that you are striving to be delivering into your 40s, 50s, and maybe even 60s, long past when they will be finished with thier on car supervisors duties, and that trotting to stops may make him or her look good, but in the end your career is more important to you than thier never ending quest to look good on paper.


What is gone is the belief that every package will be delivered every day. The management that lived by that credo has left through retirement or to pursue other interests. That belief has left along with them. The accountablility from the division manager down to the center manager down to the on car supervisor down to the driver has departed along with the good management folks as well as through drivers that delivered during that era. The frontline management folks that are left are not making the decisions, the decisions are being made from the uncapable pencil pushers sitting in the ivory tower, who are not capable to make those types of decisions.

Dutch Dawg

Well-Known Member
UPS the company stands a very good chance of not only surviving the next 100 years but also expanding barring catastrophic disaster. Whether the current core business of parcel delivery will survive, remains to be seen.


Well-Known Member
Dutch Dawg said:
UPS the company stands a very good chance of not only surviving the next 100 years but also expanding barring catastrophic disaster. Whether the current core business of parcel delivery will survive, remains to be seen.

Agreed. We all know Wells Fargo as a bank today, but a hundred years ago they were... a delivery company. SCS was a fluke, at the time it started, corporate management thought we might have needed to go into some sort of manufacturing in order to earn more profit.



Took me awhile and i tried to come up with a good answer. So today i thought i would consider it while i ran around the city. I first thought about it when i went to look for a new pickup truck. First I had to stop for gas and had to laugh how in 96 i complained how it cost almost $1.40 per gallon. I told the young punk clerk I wasnt going to pay 3 bucks and all he would get his the 14 bucks for the 10 gallons. Then I stopped into my favorite dealer and told the guy i had bought one here about 10 years ago. Couldnt believe the cost went from $14,000 to $23,000 for pretty much the same vehicle. I told the guy I wanted the pickup right now but wasnt giving him a penny over the $14,000 i paid in 1996. Before i came home i stopped to get a burger at McD's and laughed that the same value meal in 96 went from $2.50 to $4.00. Well the heck if they were getting a penny more than $2.50 from me.
So needless to say i came home hungry, in an old truck, with i think an arrest warrant for some unpaid gas. I cant get anything like i did in 96, except well the same productivity demands from the part time work force with the same pay rate 10 years later. And there my friend is the key to our future. Pay to get a good part time workforce. Weed out the bad ones (which wont be the current 70%) and we have the roots to grow some good drivers and even a few more knucklehead management people like myself. There was an old saying in the Soviet Union....they pretend to pay us so we pretend to work....NO NO NO im not comparing our company to the USSR in anyway but you, i and everyone who has stepped foot in a UPS operation in the last 10 years knows we dont have a good crop of replacements for us growin' no matter if you are looking at their performance, work ethic, or dress code LOL


I've oftened wondered how you drivers handle delivering so many damaged packages. In our hub some loaders will tape up pkgs others won't and their are a lot of damages from that belt!! So do you just deliver, smile and say "sorry"?


HEAVY MJ said:
I've oftened wondered how you drivers handle delivering so many damaged packages
More often than not, its the shipper that can't comprehend that they can't use the same box over and over again. It's embarrasing to deliver boxes you know were in bad shape off the shipper's dock, then you get delayed because the receiver wants to take every last exception on the condition of the carton.