Integrity issues?

[Catatonic]

Pretzel, if UPS can purchase a turkey for 12.50 or less... That's stealing where I'm from. That is certainly an integrity issue.

Hubrat,
I've observed your arguments in your posts and appreciated the logic and skill with which you posted them.
To call the discontinued gift of a turkey as an integrity issue drops you down to the level of a grade-schooler ... I know you can do better.

 

[hubrat]

Hubrat,
I've observed your arguments in your posts and appreciated the logic and skill with which you posted them.
To call the discontinued gift of a turkey as an integrity issue drops you down to the level of a grade-schooler ... I know you can do better.

Morale = priceless. They gave out more than one turkey a year for a hundred years. Even during the depression. Why all of a sudden are we as a group not worth it?

There are ppl responding to me that never developed beyond grade school.

Thanks for listening and being supportive.

 

[some1else]

The turkey thing was dumb. Didnt save nearly as much as it cost (in morale).

 

[pretzel_man]

There will be a two-tiered system, no doubt. When all drivers at the top level are gone it will once again be one level. The lower one of course.
Drastic changes in the government may leave us with little leverage in 2013.

Pretzel, if UPS can purchase a turkey for 12.50 or less... That's stealing where I'm from. That is certainly an integrity issue.

Stealing because UPS didn't give you a turkey?

A decision had to be made. $5M by not giving a turkey.

Jim Casey made the same decision. He stopped giving turkeys for 10 years.

Now, unfortunate? Yes. A bad decision? Maybe. Impact Morale? Maybe. Stealing? Silly.

 

[pretzel_man]

Morale = priceless. They gave out more than one turkey a year for a hundred years. Even during the depression. Why all of a sudden are we as a group not worth it?

There are ppl responding to me that never developed beyond grade school.

Thanks for listening and being supportive.

I stand corrected. It was not 10 years that no turkeys were given. Only 7.

"The turkeys were not distributed from 1937 through 1944 due to the effects of the Depression and the rationing of World War II. An article in The Big Idea stated, "The company regrets that because of the increased cost of business operations, heavier taxes, and the likelihood of less volume due to the business recession, it has become necessary to discontinue the practice of distributing Christmas turkeys"

Will you agree that you are incorrect about the practice? Whether it has a priceless impact on morale is a matter of opinion that I cannot argue for or against.

 

[over9five]

I don't care that UPS stopped giving us the turkey. But it is a sore spot for many employees.
I think maybe because it was something that UPS did that they did not have to do. It wasn't contractually mandated, it was a real actual heartfelt gift from the company to us. Probably the only thing UPS did that they didn't have to do, and now it's gone.

Certainly not an integrity thing, but a passing of something that was special to many of our employees.

 

[pretzel_man]

I don't care that UPS stopped giving us the turkey. But it is a sore spot for many employees.
I think maybe because it was something that UPS did that they did not have to do. It wasn't contractually mandated, it was a real actual heartfelt gift from the company to us. Probably the only thing UPS did that they didn't have to do, and now it's gone.

Certainly not an integrity thing, but a passing of something that was special to many of our employees.

No disagreement.

 

[hubrat]

Will you agree that you are incorrect about the practice? Whether it has a priceless impact on morale is a matter of opinion that I cannot argue for or against.

Of course. I repeated something I heard without researching it, and that was a mistake. I sincerely appreciate the correction.

I don't even eat turkey. It, for me, served as a simple example of something much larger. I am fortunate if that is all I have lost thus far, as opposed to matching 401k and bonuses/incentives.

Taking from your employees to save costs while increasing your own pay is stealing.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I repeated something I heard without researching it, and that was a mistake.

moreluck, is that you?

I sincerely appreciate the correction.

No, you're not moreluck.

Taking from your employees to save costs while increasing your own pay is stealing.

You would be right if this indeed were true; however, I think it has been shown that this statement is false in regard to UPS.

The real losers with the turkeys are the local charities.

 

[moreluck]

Obsession....wear it with pride by Calvin Klein !!

The real losers are the local charities? Only if UPSers decide not to be charitable. I got 2 turkeys (buy one get one free). One for Thanksgiving and the other for charity.

 

[Catatonic]

I don't care that UPS stopped giving us the turkey. But it is a sore spot for many employees.
I think maybe because it was something that UPS did that they did not have to do. It wasn't contractually mandated, it was a real actual heartfelt gift from the company to us. Probably the only thing UPS did that they didn't have to do, and now it's gone.

Certainly not an integrity thing, but a passing of something that was special to many of our employees.

Understandable ... it was the integrity assertion that seemed laughable.

It is ironic that the turkey and the safe driving and length of service were scorned as chintzy and unappreciated until these gifts were withdrawn. More of a comment on human nature than a criticism.

 

[Anonymous 10]

I repeated something I heard without researching it, and that was a mistake.

moreluck, is that you?

I sincerely appreciate the correction.

No, you're not moreluck.

Taking from your employees to save costs while increasing your own pay is stealing.

You would be right if this indeed were true; however, I think it has been shown that this statement is false in regard to UPS.

The real losers with the turkeys are the local charities.

+1 thats been my thought all along shame shame ups.

 

[pretzel_man]

Of course. I repeated something I heard without researching it, and that was a mistake. I sincerely appreciate the correction.

I don't even eat turkey. It, for me, served as a simple example of something much larger. I am fortunate if that is all I have lost thus far, as opposed to matching 401k and bonuses/incentives.

Taking from your employees to save costs while increasing your own pay is stealing.

I certainly do not believe you would post something inaccurate on purpose. Honest mistakes do happen. No problem.

To have a discussion on whether the loss of the turkey was necessary is fair.

To discuss whether it hurts morale is reasonable.

To discuss if it was wise is also appropriate.

To call it stealing takes away for the other discussions. I do not think most reasonable people would agree with you on that point.

 

[soberups]

Sleeve, he does make a valid point. This is why I do think that you will see a two-tiered wage system for drivers discussed in 2013. I don't know how much more cutting they can do at the mgt level. Yes, we do have record or near record profits, but who knows how long that will continue. I do think our turn comes in 2013.

1. A two-tiered wage system is something I would strike over. You cannot have a unified work group when two people work side-by-side doing the same job and one of them has no hope of ever earning what the other one does. And once the majority of the workforce is in the lower tier, then it is a simple matter to offer that majority some sort of "bonus" or other pittance in exchange for dragging the higher paid minority down into the lower tier as well. In the end, everybody loses.

2. When the company invests millions in a Telematics system and then turns around and has their management people renting cars in order to spy on drivers who are already being monitored with that system...it becomes obvious to me that there is still a great deal of waste and fat to be cut from the management ranks. Cut the fat before you even discuss cutting the wages of the people who actually generate the revenue in the first place.

 

[hubrat]

1. A two-tiered wage system is something I would strike over. You cannot have a unified work group when two people work side-by-side doing the same job and one of them has no hope of ever earning what the other one does. And once the majority of the workforce is in the lower tier, then it is a simple matter to offer that majority some sort of "bonus" or other pittance in exchange for dragging the higher paid minority down into the lower tier as well. In the end, everybody loses.

2. When the company invests millions in a Telematics system and then turns around and has their management people renting cars in order to spy on drivers who are already being monitored with that system...it becomes obvious to me that there is still a great deal of waste and fat to be cut from the management ranks. Cut the fat before you even discuss cutting the wages of the people who actually generate the revenue in the first place.

Read on db we may not be able to strike, that thanks to a recent governmental lean to the right the Teamsters would not risk losing their highest dues payers. Now I don't believe everything I read, but this does sound plausible.

 

[hubrat]

I certainly do not believe you would post something inaccurate on purpose. Honest mistakes do happen. No problem.

To have a discussion on whether the loss of the turkey was necessary is fair.

To discuss whether it hurts morale is reasonable.

To discuss if it was wise is also appropriate.

To call it stealing takes away for the other discussions. I do not think most reasonable people would agree with you on that point.

Another poor choice of words by me.
Thank you again for the correction.
I hope it was clear that I was also discussing management losses. I don't know a lot about it, but I know it did happen.
I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that my semantical slip detracts from entire discussions. I'm not that important.
Learning for a lifetime.

 

[brownmonster]

Taking away a Turkey to save 5 million a year. Seems kind of silly that 1.25 million out of a 1 quarter profit of 991 million would matter. I see it as companies taking away things from employees because they can get away with it. No different than UPS offering free busing and schooling when we had trouble getting people in the boom times. When you need people you give, when you don't you take.

 

[Catatonic]

Taking away a Turkey to save 5 million a year. Seems kind of silly that 1.25 million out of a 1 quarter profit of 991 million would matter. I see it as companies taking away things from employees because they can get away with it. No different than UPS offering free busing and schooling when we had trouble getting people in the boom times. When you need people you give, when you don't you take.

Yeah ... makes sense to me. I bought a new car in Feb 2009 because the car companies were hurting. Bought a $29k vehicle for $18k.
UPS is a capitalistic entity competing in a market based on supply and demand. Part of that market is UPS services and part of it is the resources to provide those services.
I remember a memo that came out from HR a few years back stating that "UPS ain't your Daddy anymore." (OK that was a paraphrase).

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Morale = priceless. They gave out more than one turkey a year for a hundred years. Even during the depression. Why all of a sudden are we as a group not worth it?

There are ppl responding to me that never developed beyond grade school.

Thanks for listening and being supportive.

It's nothing, for 2011 the work pace should be one turkey slower than average. Stick it to the schoolyard bullies where it hurts the most, production numbers.

 

[Bubblehead]

I kew it wouldn't take long to come with a very real for instance of the lack of integrity being perpetrated by this company using emergency conditions.
Today an early am driver was instructed to take out 4 more stops than she was confident she could service in time.
The supervisor instructed her to sheet any that were late as EC because they were short on drivers.
There was NO weather to validate it!!!
When the reports become more important than the commitment to the paying customer, a customer who payed a premium price on top of it, that's a lack of integrity.
Why didn't this supervisor deliver them himself?
To avoid being gigged on another report.
Again, a lack of integrity!!!
I'm not dismissing the possibility that this supervisor was "working as directed" as well.
I'm tired of people peeing on my shoes and telling me it's raining.