Integrity issues?

brownmonster

Man of Great Wisdom
And when the customer is sitting in the house; driveway and sidewalks shoveled, dry pavement on the road and the pkg shows as undeliverable due to emerrgency conditions...

I honestly want the work; if you dont please go elsewhere dont screw our customers.

Why is it that anytime a package can't be delivered the first thing we do (driver and mgmnt alike) is try to figure out how we can record it so it doesn't show up missed. If we we're allowed to record packages honestly without fear of discipline, maybe a true picture of our operations would be painted and we could work on seriously improving them. Wouldn't customers have more faith in us if we just told them it didn't get delivered rather then making up a fake exception?
 

PASinterference

Yes, I know I'm working late.
Why is it that anytime a package can't be delivered the first thing we do (driver and mgmnt alike) is try to figure out how we can record it so it doesn't show up missed. If we we're allowed to record packages honestly without fear of discipline, maybe a true picture of our operations would be painted and we could work on seriously improving them. Wouldn't customers have more faith in us if we just told them it didn't get delivered rather then making up a fake exception?

+1000
Cant go over that weekly allowance of missed pkgs or the boogeyman will get your boss
 
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Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
Maybe you should define corporate greed?

If you define it as what Enron did... Cooking the books.... Yes, its bad.

If you define it as what happened with the subprime mortgages.... Stealing from the future..... Yes, its bad.

Unfortunately, people paint a corporation trying to grow revenue, profits, share price as Corporate Greed. No... Those things are good....

Jim Casey said: "An expanding business is the only way to provide opportunities for our people."

Too often on this board, profits and profit growth are seen as bad. As Tie said, if profit growth is greed, then I'm all for it. Name a company that stayed complacent and shrunk to greatness.

Does it require accountability. Of course. Its always been that way. Some call that harassment. We used to call that accountability.

Jim also said: "Don’t over-rate yourself. Lean a little the other way — be constructively dissatisfied with yourself — and you’ll go further."

So, define corporate greed before we decide its bad.

I'm pretty sure nobody is trying to compare UPS with Enron, Worldcom, or FreddyMac.
I'll define corporate greed for you; it's the more, more, more mindset.
Whether it be the ever increasing standards shouldered by the frontline worker or the ever increasing divide of compensation between the ranks, make no mistake corporate greed is very real and prevalent.
It's a good old boys club amongst the elite.
They sit on each others board of directors, voting for each other agendas, all the while enjoying a bigger and bigger piece of the pie.
We are not blind to the fact in the face of the worst economy since the Great Depression, this company is enjoying record profits.
How was this done?
By cutting to the bone.
Why?
To satisfy the supposedly faceless stockholder. ( majority of the stock still owned by upper management )
Who's paying the price?
The little guys.
 

hubrat

Squeaky Wheel
Maybe you should define corporate greed?

If you define it as what Enron did... Cooking the books.... Yes, its bad.

If you define it as what happened with the subprime mortgages.... Stealing from the future..... Yes, its bad.

Unfortunately, people paint a corporation trying to grow revenue, profits, share price as Corporate Greed. No... Those things are good....

Jim Casey said: "An expanding business is the only way to provide opportunities for our people."

Too often on this board, profits and profit growth are seen as bad. As Tie said, if profit growth is greed, then I'm all for it. Name a company that stayed complacent and shrunk to greatness.

Does it require accountability. Of course. Its always been that way. Some call that harassment. We used to call that accountability.

Jim also said: "Don’t over-rate yourself. Lean a little the other way — be constructively dissatisfied with yourself — and you’ll go further."

So, define corporate greed before we decide its bad.

Greed is a poor word choice. Corporate rapaciousness is much more appropriate.

When a corporation prospers by hurting others. Because some folks seem to have difficulty when e.v.e.r.y. l.i.t.t.l.e t.h.i.n.g. i.s.n.'t. s.p.e.l.l.e.d. o.u.t. friend.o.r. t.h.e.m.: I am not implying that all profits come from hurting others, but any prosperity that comes from hurting others is bad for business.

What a relief to clear that up.

Jim Casey also said, "One measure of your success will be the degree to which you build up others who work with you. While building up others, you will build up yourself."
:pet:
 

pemanager

Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure nobody is trying to compare UPS with Enron, Worldcom, or FreddyMac.
I'll define corporate greed for you; it's the more, more, more mindset.
Whether it be the ever increasing standards shouldered by the frontline worker or the ever increasing divide of compensation between the ranks, make no mistake corporate greed is very real and prevalent.
It's a good old boys club amongst the elite.
They sit on each others board of directors, voting for each other agendas, all the while enjoying a bigger and bigger piece of the pie.
We are not blind to the fact in the face of the worst economy since the Great Depression, this company is enjoying record profits.
How was this done?
By cutting to the bone.
Why?
To satisfy the supposedly faceless stockholder. ( majority of the stock still owned by upper management )
Who's paying the price?
The little guys.

Bubblehead,

May I ask what you are basing your statement that UPS is enjoying record profits off of?
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
Bubblehead,

May I ask what you are basing your statement that UPS is enjoying record profits off of?

3rd quarter profits $991 million up from $549 million in '09.
Sorry if that's not a record, but it's HUGE!
Out of that whole dissertation all you came up with is you're questioning whether it's a record?
 

john346

No more Brown!
So, today made day six, yep six (6), dispatched with 177 stops the majority routes. And for the sixth day I've worked my 12 hour day and had in excess of 20 stops missed, ooops, er, I mean emergency conditions, 38 degrees, snow has been melting, a little overcast, but wet & slush. And day six, yep six, they (management) coded the lot as E/C. How curious, it's almost like our E/C is like el ninio, a strange and unforeseen freak of nature. All that wet out there, oooh very dangerous.
 

sosocal

Well-Known Member
Our company does have a very firm grasp on reality. Unfortunately for us, part of reality is that there is a direct correlation between abuse and production.

To a point. And then we have the extremes.

Put too much pressure on anything and it will eventually collapse. If you're lucky. Applied in the wrong direction with an extreme amout of force, it will explode in your face.

Some of us are fortunate to have a management team that pads them and their coworkers from a lot of maltreatment. They are the kind of folks that will as long as they can, which won't be much longer. So my hunch is that a lot of people have no clue. The harassment is contrived. Disagree all you want, but think about what happens when, even at a minimum, your flaws are pointed out to you first thing in the morning. You leave the building p'd off. The energy that builds up must be released and most of us will work harder. This process starts at the very top as soon as the ops reports start to come in. Soon it will happen in real-time thanks to technology.

Our employment situation is at least a little unique and will never even approach perfect. This ain't SAS and will never even come close for us hourlies or those that manage us directly. But the hostility has to go.

Now I've heard some say there is no maltreatment in their neck of the woods, and the only hostility comes from "bad" employees who want money for nothing. Managers are not going to admit to the abuse they face. They will flat out deny it. I have heard it first hand, and I have seen and felt it's consequences. If they admit to it to you or me they will be forced to see it for what it is. On a personal level, they feel as though they will have to give something up. On a not-so-personal level they will be fired.

There are more than a couple of reasons people choose to work under these circumstances. That's a different thread. At least a few don't know how to function without an abusive caretaker. Many don't understand their own motivation. Many don't care. It's a very personal issue and a heck of a lot of people don't have a foundation that will withstand that kind of exploration, through no fault or flaw. A whole lotta folks are just scrambling to get some really basic needs met. All of our motivation is fundamentally selfish. The world just wouldn't spin otherwise.

We are all on the Tightest Ship. The folks at the helm are extremely selfish. They are steering us toward disaster because it's paying off for them at the moment. When it sinks they won't have a pot to pee in.

Someone has to excercise power for this company to operate. They don't have to abuse it. We don't have to allow it.

I love my job, for the most part. Among many other reasons, it's the only opportunity I will ever have to get paid for being athletic, and there is some degree of artistry in it. I am well compensated and appreciate it. I am not trying to bite the hand that feeds me. Face-to-face with the customer, I speak well of my company or I don't speak. I can always find something positive to say. In here, I am telling the truth as I see it.

I make mistakes and make an effort to own and understand them when I do. That's the only way I know to improve.

We must hold those who hold power accountable. They have what they need to be successful and their quest for more and more and more will ruin it for all of us.


good post!
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
Is it just me, or does Jim Casey have a saying for everything? The guy must have never shut up to have said so much!!

It's like Seinfeld....there's a clip for everything.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Is it just me, or does Jim Casey have a saying for everything? The guy must have never shut up to have said so much!!

It's like Seinfeld....there's a clip for everything.

He wasn't married so he didn't have to 'yield the floor' to a woman and therefore ran on and on and on.......just to hear a voice(like someone else we know)
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure nobody is trying to compare UPS with Enron, Worldcom, or FreddyMac.
I'll define corporate greed for you; it's the more, more, more mindset.
Whether it be the ever increasing standards shouldered by the frontline worker or the ever increasing divide of compensation between the ranks, make no mistake corporate greed is very real and prevalent.
It's a good old boys club amongst the elite.
They sit on each others board of directors, voting for each other agendas, all the while enjoying a bigger and bigger piece of the pie.
We are not blind to the fact in the face of the worst economy since the Great Depression, this company is enjoying record profits.
How was this done?
By cutting to the bone.
Why?
To satisfy the supposedly faceless stockholder. ( majority of the stock still owned by upper management )
Who's paying the price?
The little guys.

I don't think you are correct about who is paying the price...

Shareowners have seen no increase in 10 years.
Customers are paying a premium price. We are no longer the low cost provider.
Management is paying a higher and higher cost and seeing little advancement over the last few years.
Upper management who has a large portion of their compensation tied to stock growth is no longer getting wealthy.

It used to be that a division manager could count on a very healthy nest egg. No longer.
Yes, grade 20's and above get LTIP. Its a perk, but without stock growth nowhere near as valuable as previous incentives.

So, everyone is feeling the pinch. Not just the little guy.

You speak of the highest of all management. Look at the numbers. There are about 15 of them. If they made ZERO, it would mean squat to the workers. Maybe $200 per worker per year.

I hope that they are correct in their growth initiatives. I just don't see it.


Therefore, the choice is to work hard and be as efficient as possible or we all make less. All of us.

BTW, its totally false that the majority of stock is owned by upper management. Not even close. Last I looked, TOTAL management owned about 40% of stock. I bet its less now.
 

hubrat

Squeaky Wheel
...So, everyone is feeling the pinch. Not just the little guy.

You speak of the highest of all management. Look at the numbers. There are about 15 of them. If they made ZERO, it would mean squat to the workers. Maybe $200 per worker per year.

Everyone? You sure about that? If a 5 million bonus is a pinch, everyone wouldn't mind feeling it.

5,000,000/400,000=12.5
I bet they got a substantial discount on turkeys.

Morale = priceless
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
Everyone? You sure about that? If a 5 million bonus is a pinch, everyone wouldn't mind feeling it.

5,000,000/400,000=12.5
I bet they got a substantial discount on turkeys.

Morale = priceless

Yes, everyone....

If you are talking about Davis' incentives.....

80%+ of his compensation is in incentives. Deferred compensation. If stock doesn't grow its value is diminished. Same for other top management.

Grade 20's have about 1/2 of their compensation deferred. Above that, the % deferred is greater....

It is meant to be an incentive to make the stock grow and for the long term....

So... Scott is a CEO of a fortune 50 company. Last I looked, his compensation ranked somewhere around 500th in CEO compensation. Nowhere near his peers.

Now, drivers are the highest paid in the industry. I am not saying, nor have I ever said that they are overpaid or not worth it.

But to complain about top management who make much less than their counterparts is not reasonable.

Is $5M a lot of money. Yes. On the other hand, if a CEO and his team can raise the stock price $1, they have upped UPS' worth by $1 Billion. That's why they are paid so highly.

As I said, if the entire management committee made ZERO, the impact to everyone else's pay is negligible. Maybe $200 a year.
 

some1else

Well-Known Member
Pretzel i usually agree with you and agree with your overall point; but trying to say 200$ is nothing is a bit elitist. We have preloaders busting 200+pph for 8.50$hr. Thats over a weeks pay for a new hire. Woild you say 2% of your pay is isignificant?
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
Pretzel i usually agree with you and agree with your overall point; but trying to say 200$ is nothing is a bit elitist. We have preloaders busting 200+pph for 8.50$hr. Thats over a weeks pay for a new hire. Woild you say 2% of your pay is isignificant?

You are right and I was just making a point. I certainly didn't intend to minimize the value to $200 to a hard working part timer.

My point though is still the same. Those top management are not sucking the money from everyone else. The math just doesn't work out.

Of course those PTers would like that money. But even for them it equates to about 20 cents per hour, right?

And, this is if all top management made ZERO.... It was just an example to put things in perspective.
 

tieguy

Banned
Bubblehead,

May I ask what you are basing your statement that UPS is enjoying record profits off of?

LOL. Did you see all the "+1's" from other posters who were equally as ignorant of the facts as he is.

His statement was meant to sound good it was never meant to be supported by any facts or reality.
 

hubrat

Squeaky Wheel
So... Scott is a CEO of a fortune 50 company. Last I looked, his compensation ranked somewhere around 500th in CEO compensation. Nowhere near his peers.

As I've seen so many others say here when hourlies complain, boo hoo.

Morale IS priceless. This company will not be so profitable when good employees start leaving. Disagree all you want, then sit back and watch. The situation where I am is close to tumultuous. No exaggeration.
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
As I've seen so many others say here when hourlies complain, boo hoo.

Morale IS priceless. This company will not be so profitable when good employees start leaving. Disagree all you want, then sit back and watch. The situation where I am is close to tumultuous. No exaggeration.

I didn't disagee. Never argued the importance of Morale.

I responded to the following incorrect statement:

To satisfy the supposedly faceless stockholder. ( majority of the stock still owned by upper management )
Who's paying the price?
The little guys.

Again, all UPSers are impacted by the ecomony. Even the top managment. Majority of stock is NOT owned by management.

I have never disageed with the importance or morale. I may disagree with the opinion of some on the current state of morale and the reason for that state.
 
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