burrheadd
KING Of GIFS
what’s so important you can’t make it to work for 4 days
Is a person's scheduled day off counted towards the 3 day occurence policy?
- Thread starter Furen
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what’s so important you can’t make it to work for 4 days
MyTripisCut
Never bought my own handtruck
I always tell people, the less info you give, the better. Don’t hang yourself.
rod
Retired 22 years
Indecisi0n
Well-Known Member
Who takes off mon Tues wed Thur and not Friday?
Brown Biscuit
Blind every day
Someone that wants to come in and milk the clock Friday to try and make up for time lost all week...
Then someone that doesn’t completely suck at their job will get sent to help them thus completing the circle of suck we have here at UPS.
sorry. It was a long week. Give me a crispy boy and I’ll be good.
Maple Grove MN Driver
Cocaine Mang!
Wrong
Stuff happens just make sure you give your boss a heads up
The place will run without you
zubenelgenubi
I'm a star
I was researching this, and could have sworn I read it somewhere but couldn't find it. Right when the search function wasn't working. I realize, now, that's from your local language. What I found in my local contract is that upon the 8th sick day, they start taking health and welfare payments out of your sick pay. Other than that it doesn't look like there is a limit on how long you can call off sick, or that you need a doctor's note after a certain time.
We don't have any specification on when you must call in by, as far as I can find.
My questions about these two points, and I don't know if you guys will have an answer but it could be some food for thought, are these:
If it is not specified in the contract, can UPS establish their own policy about these issues? If so, isn't that dictating terms of working conditions without bargaining for them?
I guess these questions could be generalized to all company policy concerning issues that should be subject to collective bargaining. Should the company even be allowed to set certain policies if the issue is not covered by negotiations? Wouldn't that be considered an unfair advantage for the company to dictate working conditions and bypass bargaining?
Maybe @BigUnionGuy, @Bubblehead, or @Mugarolla have some thoughts?
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Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
Yes.
Most states actually have laws allowing employers to request a doctors note to verify that the employee was actually sick.
The time frame varies.
These laws also give the employer the right to ask the employee about his illness when he calls in.
I have never seen it yet, but it is possible, based on state laws, for an employer to discipline an employee for an unapproved absence without a doctors note of illness after a specified period of missed work.
If you're not sick, don't call in sick. Take yourself out of service for personal reasons. But, 3 days in a row of this personal reasons and you're asking for trouble if it not approved.
Nope.
Hell, the contract doesn't even list how many sick occurrences an employee can accrue before being discipline, yet warning letter are passed out right and left for attendance issues.
Sometimes, though, it's beneficial to not be in black and white.
zubenelgenubi
I'm a star
In my state, some employment laws are superceded by cba's. But I still keep trying to wrap my head around how all these things interact, company policy, cba's, state and federal law. It's especially difficult when the company isn't exactly forthcoming with their policies.
In the case of sick leave, some locals have a higher level of protection negotiated in to their local contracts so, company policy is superceded. When it is not spelled out in the contract, and the company doesn't make its policies readily available, then it isn't necessarily obvious to the average person to turn to state law to determine what their rights are. Most have a hard enough time just reading/understanding the contract. Anyway, thought it was worth discussing. Thank you for your input.
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
Not such a bad thing.
A CBA cannot trump law, but it can have a higher standard than law, per se.
A CBA can, and will, always trump Company policy.
Again, not such a bad thing.
Past practice comes into play in most areas when dealing with attendance.
Most areas have an "unwritten" policy regarding call ins and attendance, that the Local and the Company have agreed on.
Most likely different everywhere.
zubenelgenubi
I'm a star
Except where a law specifically states that they do, like the employment laws in my state.
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
Correct. But it is not trumping law.
The law is taking into account a CBA covering the issue.
zubenelgenubi
I'm a star
That depends. In state vs federal law, whichever affords employees the greater protection supersedes the other. In the case in my state, in certain situation, a CBA can have lesser protections than the law, and the CBA wins out. If that's not trumping state law, then I don't know what the term means.
They did that to me except they completely skipped the 1-day and 3-day suspension and just wrote a 5-day suspension letter on me.
3-4 weeks later and I still have not served it, even though we have so many people they are doing lay-offs every day.
Asked my sup a couple days ago when I was going to serve the suspension and he said he didn't know.
I'm guessing they just give you the letter and then have you never serve it so they can have their cake and eat it too.
They get to complete one more step in the discipline chain without giving you any time off.
So I'll never get a suspension but if I call out one more time I'm gone.
zubenelgenubi
I'm a star
Sounds like you have a least two options for contesting further progressive discipline. But, if you keep your record clean long enough, you won't have to worry about it.
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
Correct.
The law recognizes that the company and the Union agreed to certain conditions, so the law does not apply in these situations.
The law only applies to companies that do not have an agreement with its workforce.
Yes, the CBA could have lesser protections, but this does not mean that the CBA trumps law.
The law allows it to happen.
Your state law has a stipulation that it does not apply if there is a CBA between a Union and a Company. So the CBA does not trump State law. State law does not apply in this situation. State law sees that there is a mutually agreed to decision between the Company and the Union, so the State does not need to step in.
It only steps in when there is no agreement in writing between a Company and its workforce.
And, if the conditions in the CBA are lesser than State law....Shame on the union for agreeing to it.
If there is no stipulation in a State law allowing for it, then a CBA can never trump State, or Federal, law.
This is kind of like the UPSNMA. It allows Supplements, Riders and Addendums to take precedent if the conditions are superior, EXCEPT in cases where the Master states that it shall supercede any Supplement, rider or Addendum.
Kind of like your State law. It applies, EXCEPT where it doesn't apply, CBA's.
zubenelgenubi
I'm a star
You're saying one doesn't trump the other because the other allows the one to trump it. Anyway, we're straying down the rabbit hole a bit. I think I will research a little more into the laws and any court decisions surrounding collective bargaining and how it relates to company policy and see if I can get some more insight into the matter. Thanks, again, for your input.
