Is anyone following Wisconsin?

[brett636]

Given that the Union leaders have already stated their willingness to accept all the economic provisions in this bill (all the parts which actually do save the state money), this standoff is not about WI's deficit. It's about busting a union. It comes down to whether you believe that unionism and collective bargaining are a natural right of the working class, or whether you believe those things are a privilege granted by the state/employer. If you think (as I do) that unionism/collective bargaining is a right, then any law which seeks to take away those rights is unjust by definition and you should be opposed to this bill. If you think it's a privilege that can be taken away at the sole discretion of the state or your employer that's fine, but keep in mind that that reasoning can be used against you as well. And you can't have it both ways, ie, you can't say that it's a right for some workers but not for others because that makes it a defacto privilege. Ultimately there is someone who will think that you shouldn't have that privilege either.

The problem I, as a private sector union member, have with public sector unions is when they collectively bargain neither side is using its own money. Its just that simple.

 

[804brown]

There should be NO public worker's that are Union they work for the friggin Government either Federal state or municipality, the reason for only 9% for private is because we don't produce anything this country has become a service economy and those job's don't pay well.And maybe the union's r to blame for such a low number, like their stance in supporting Obama Care which would mean a loss of insurance coverage for teamster's which is not good. Maybe you need to be educated, taking a stance with the Democrats like I said before the Party has gone so far left If u like them then leave this country for France or Germany or one of those socialist countries because the madness has ended the past November more to come on 2012, we are heading for true conservative turnaround, make no mistake both parties are responsible for the mess we are in, but those where not real republican's, and the Democrat party and for that matter the Education system to has been hijacked by leftist which it makes easier to turn the republican party around.

Obama's Health Care Reform actually brings more people into the system for instance kids of members under 26 yrs old.It stops insurance companies from turning down people with pre-existing conditions, children wil no longer be denied care ,etc.
Party gone "so far left"?? LOL! Maybe you need to be educated a bit. What was done nationally, was backed by people like Bob Dole in 1993 and implemented in Mass. by Gov Romney a few yrs ago! Please, he could have implemented a single payer plan ,like a Medicare for All, but he opted for a plan which empowers the private sector. It gave the private insurers 32 million new customers. That's not socialism buddy!
As for France and Germany, they have more of a mixed economy, not socialism. They both have capitalist economies with a strong publically subsidized social safety net including health care, child care and college education.
As for the Novmeber 2010 elections, don't be fooled. It was not a rejection of Obama or the Dems. It was quite simply an awful economy, the worst since the Great Depression. Dems were in control and they were last year's scapgoat, nothing more. People have already figured out they made a mistake voting in this right wing majority. Im sure that will be corrected next year in 2012!
And I would like to personally thank the Gov of Wisconsin for waking up the labor movement in this country. It has been asleep since 1997.
For those in the NYC area, we will be marching/protesting in front of Fox news headquarters (122 6th ave NYC) at 5pm! Solidarity!

 

[brett636]

Obama's Health Care Reform actually brings more people into the system for instance kids of members under 26 yrs old.It stops insurance companies from turning down people with pre-existing conditions, children wil no longer be denied care ,etc.
Party gone "so far left"?? LOL! Maybe you need to be educated a bit. What was done nationally, was backed by people like Bob Dole in 1993 and implemented in Mass. by Gov Romney a few yrs ago! Please, he could have implemented a single payer plan ,like a Medicare for All, but he opted for a plan which empowers the private sector. It gave the private insurers 32 million new customers. That's not socialism buddy!
As for France and Germany, they have more of a mixed economy, not socialism. They both have capitalist economies with a strong publically subsidized social safety net including health care, child care and college education.
As for the Novmeber 2010 elections, don't be fooled. It was not a rejection of Obama or the Dems. It was quite simply an awful economy, the worst since the Great Depression. Dems were in control and they were last year's scapgoat, nothing more. People have already figured out they made a mistake voting in this right wing majority. Im sure that will be corrected next year in 2012!
And I would like to personally thank the Gov of Wisconsin for waking up the labor movement in this country. It has been asleep since 1997.
For those in the NYC area, we will be marching/protesting in front of Fox news headquarters (122 6th ave NYC) at 5pm! Solidarity!

Your right about insurance companies not being able to deny coverage to children, but do you know how they answered this little change? They no longer write child only policies for anyone. Guess that kinda blew up in Obummer's face didn't it?

 

[804brown]

Brett, I watched the youtube you advertise here . First of all you seem to love Reagan so much. But as a "private sector union member" you should recall what this ***** did to the unions starting with PATCO in 1981. We are weaker now because of him. Secondly, the clip is from the 1960s before Reagan was in government and learned the art of compromise. Remember in 1986, he worked with the "evil empire" in order to lessen the number of nuclear weapons.

 

[804brown]

Your right about insurance companies not being able to deny coverage to children, but do you know how they answered this little change? They no longer write child only policies for anyone. Guess that kinda blew up in Obummer's face didn't it?

Work in progress bro. The states (Colorado and California, etc) have been fixing that scummy manuever by the insurance companies.

 

[705red]

Re: Is anyone following this?

Ah a Liberal, anybody who thinks it's ok for those idiot Democrats to leave and shut down the government process is a Liberal( Minority), The Governor ran on exactly what he is doing, the Democrats are whinny cry babies cause they lost! Google it for yur self Public salaries are more than the private sector!!!! The reason the public sector get's heathcare and pension was that they had low salaries, well that's out the window now! And whether u realize it or not YUR TAX dollars pay for this!!! The country is 14 Trillion $ in debt Both parties are to blame. I am a Teamster, and a Tea Party member, ask why the Teamster's backed Obama Care??? those Idiot's are trying to loose are health-care!! The Democrat Party is way to left to re claim that's why the Tea Party has targeted Republicans who say they are conservative but r not, hence the bloodbath this past November, and more to come in 2012.

You Republicans kill me! We are in debt because you chase wars that we cannot afford. Lets go to Iraq and get us some WMD, never found any and im still paying $3.35 for a gallon of gas. How much money would we save by pulling our troops out of Iraq??????


No lets with the back bone of this country, the union worker. You cant be a good union member and sell out any other union members. And anyone that thinks they are union and do not support the Wisconsin publicc workers, turn in your ng union card you anti union #%#$%$^$^%%!!!!!!!

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[705red]

Given that the Union leaders have already stated their willingness to accept all the economic provisions in this bill (all the parts which actually do save the state money), this standoff is not about WI's deficit. It's about busting a union. It comes down to whether you believe that unionism and collective bargaining are a natural right of the working class, or whether you believe those things are a privilege granted by the state/employer. If you think (as I do) that unionism/collective bargaining is a right, then any law which seeks to take away those rights is unjust by definition and you should be opposed to this bill. If you think it's a privilege that can be taken away at the sole discretion of the state or your employer that's fine, but keep in mind that that reasoning can be used against you as well. And you can't have it both ways, ie, you can't say that it's a right for some workers but not for others because that makes it a defacto privilege. Ultimately there is someone who will think that you shouldn't have that privilege either.

Jones you have done a good job getting this message out there. They have agreed to the concessions, so this IS not about the money, its about union busting and anyone that cant see that is just stuck on STUPID!!!

 

[705red]

I find it hard to believe that these teachers are the ones setting an example by skipping class and getting fake doctors notes, what kind of message does that send to your child? In addition to that the democrat leaders of the State have gone into hiding, is this another lesson for our children to learn, C'mon!! Save the hysteria the bargaining changes exempt most firefighters, police and State troopers. The Governor wants to remove collective bargaining rights except for wages, which would be limited to be not greater than the Consumer Price Index. The reason for this is to have a long term plan to reduce the deficit otherwise you're just kicking the can down the road. Futhermore it is the tax payers that pay for the salaries of the union State workers and they should have to answer to all the people of Wisconsin. This isn't the same as UPS and the teamsters because UPS is responsible for paying the teamster wage not the tax payer. Nobody has asked anyone to give up but rather proposed a plan that would require state employees to put 5.8 percent of their salaries toward their pensions and pay 12.6 percent of their health-care premiums. Currently, state employees make no payments toward their pensions. You can thank Obama for the bail outs...Go going! Funny, you're seeing the power of the PEOPLE, the guy who lives next door to a teacher who is making $70k while he only makes $50k, the same guy watching that teacher retire at 55 and him at 70 all the while paying taxes to support his pension....HOGWASH!! POWER TO ALL THE PEOPLE the millions of Wisconsin tax payers who are sick and tired of this kind of crap and voted in change! Governor Scott Walker a man taking charge, nice to see for a CHANGE!!

Drinking the koolaid!!! Some people have the ability to hear, translate and decifer what is being said, then the brain sends out the definition of what has been said. And then some people have a wall built between their ears and only hear and see waht they want to. You my friend are the latter. The people have agreed to the cuts, they do nto want to give up their work place rights/ seniority and other issues that do not affect wages.

 

[Babagounj]

Two-Thirds of Wisconsin Public-School 8th Graders Can’t Read Proficiently—Despite Highest Per Pupil Spending in Midwest
(CNSNews.com) - Two-thirds of the eighth graders in Wisconsin public schools cannot read proficiently according to the U.S. Department of Education, despite the fact that Wisconsin spends more per pupil in its public schools than any other state in the Midwest.
In the National Assessment of Educational Progress tests administered by the U.S. Department of Education in 2009—the latest year available—only 32 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned a “proficient” rating while another 2 percent earned an “advanced” rating. The other 66 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned ratings below “proficient,” including 44 percent who earned a rating of “basic” and 22 percent who earned a rating of “below basic.”
The test also showed that the reading abilities of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders had not improved at all between 1998 and 2009 despite a significant inflation-adjusted increase in the amount of money Wisconsin public schools spent per pupil each year.

 

[Babagounj]

Re: Is anyone following this?

You friend-ING Republicans kill me! We are in debt because you chase wars that we cannot afford. Lets go to Iraq and get us some WMD, never found any and im still paying $3.35 for a gallon of gas.

Yet you forget that bho stated during his campaign in 2008 , he wants to see gasoline prices rise.
So as POTUS he has doctored reports in order to stop all oil drilling first in the Gulf of Mexico, which a judge has ruled illegal, then he extended a new ban until 2017.
So if we have to only depend on foreign sources for our oil, who does that help ?

 

[moreluck]

 

[The Other Side]

The problem I, as a private sector union member, have with public sector unions is when they collectively bargain neither side is using its own money. Its just that simple.

BRETT,

What hypocrisy and nerve you have. As a "private" sector employee, what amount of money are "YOU" investing into your health care package, your pension or your uniforms when your agents are collectively bargaining on your behalf?

You belong to a one sided bargaining unit. You invest nothing and collect everything.

Goverment employees dont have that priviledge. Depending on the classification, some pay partially for health care, some pay partially for pensions and some pay for other benefits they recieve.

You say you side with the goverment and against the employees because they are negotiating with other peoples money, yet, you negotiate with 100% of UPS's money and you are cool with it.

Ill tell you what, when you can come onto this board and say that you would prefer to pay for your own health care, your own pension, your own uniforms and your own dental, chiropractic, vision and acupuncture care then I will take you seriously.

Your opinion should be consistent. If you believe all the union workers in Wisconsin dont deserve the very benefits you receive, then you should be able to accept "less" as a union member as well.

Its amazing how many people will take from other people in this country all the while attacking the very middle class that they belong to just to satisfy a political party's agenda.

Look at Ohio, the state could lay off every single employee on the states payroll and it would have a zero effect on fixing the budget. So whats the real intention?

Union busting. Another republican governor following an agenda of the RNC to attack middle class americans for a bigger reason. Unions are a big part of the democratic electoral base and eliminating collective bargaining rights of americans will weaken the unions nationwide and limit their influence on the bigger political races like the presidency.

Brett, you pay zero for any benefit you recieve at UPS, if you dont want to appear like a hypocrite, go on the record and say you are making too much and recieving too much in benefits for free.

In todays UPS, drivers are making almost 3 times the average teachers salary (nationwide) depending on area. We make a pension most state employees will never see.

Be consistent, dont ask people in your "class" of americans to bear the burden of the failed policies of the political party that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

The republicans caused the collapse of wall street (from 14K to 6.8K) and lost trillions of invested dollars, most of that pension investments from across this country.

Those lost pension investments are the reason most states cannot afford its pension liabilities. Why is it that you supported president bush's bailouts of the banks, wall street and millionaires and yet you want to take more from middle class americans?

Did you forget about ENRON, WORLDCOM, TYCO taking billions from americans investments and faking the books all the while Ken Lay sat in Bush's inner circle?

You Brett have it all wrong.

Peace.

 

[705red]

Anyone of those Democrats can come and hang out at my house. My wife will cook up some pasta and I have fire arms to protect them!

 

[Kevin211]

hang on everyone because the race to the bottom just went into overdrive.....

 

[moreluck]

Looks like Indiana is following suit.....

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/22/democrats-stay-away-indiana-house-amid-union-protests/

 

[TechGrrl]

Today is Sat........how fervent will the demonstration be when they aren't getting off work to do it. How many are WI. residents and how many are bussed in for effect.

There were more protesting today than during the week; many working people came from all over the state to support this effort.

The astro-turfing Tea Party that got bussed in were outnumbered at least 20 to 1.

What the MSM is not reporting is everything ELSE in the "Budget Repair Bill"; like the fact that the governor is taking a huge amount of power away from the legislature and putting it in his hands, and also privatizing state power plants. Coincidently, the Koch Bros. are already advertising for staff to run the power plants.

People, there has been a class war going on since St. Ronald busted PATCO, and WE ARE LOSING. Every union member should be outraged at what is happening, and support these people.

The state employee unions have already AGREED to accept the financial terms; they just want to be able to retain their right to bargain and be in a union. This is union-busting 101, pure and simple.

 

[TechGrrl]

If a government is interested in maintaining freedom and liberty of its people it has an obligation to keep its burden on its people as low as possible. This simply cannot be achieved when the employees of said government demand greater pay and benefits than the people who pay the taxes to it. Note I did not say the workers of said government should be impoverished, but until recently it has been accepted that you would make less money in the public sector with the promise of more job security. Now they not only have greater job security since their employer cant go out of business, but they enjoy greater pay and benefits too. Not a situation I would deem fair in any sense of the word.

There are many, many studies that demonstrate that public service unions have traditionally traded take home pay for benefits and security. But even using total compensation (pay+benefits) and adjusting for education level, MOST public service employees make LESS than their brethren in the private sector.

Note that Gov. Walker exempted the police and fire unions from his edict. Since they supported him in the election, AND tend to make more money and have higher pensions (and retire earlier) than teachers and garbage collectors, the agenda here is clear: bust the unions. Fortunately, the police and firefighters can see past the B.S., and know that they will be next. So they are supporting the protesters in Madison.

Also, WISCONSIN IS ONE OF ONLY 4 STATES WITH FULLY FUNDED PENSIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So they are NOT contributing to the budget shortfall.

AND the state employee unions have agreed to the financial terms of Gov. Walker; they simply want to retain their unions.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Two-Thirds of Wisconsin Public-School 8th Graders Can’t Read Proficiently—Despite Highest Per Pupil Spending in Midwest
(CNSNews.com) - Two-thirds of the eighth graders in Wisconsin public schools cannot read proficiently according to the U.S. Department of Education, despite the fact that Wisconsin spends more per pupil in its public schools than any other state in the Midwest.
In the National Assessment of Educational Progress tests administered by the U.S. Department of Education in 2009—the latest year available—only 32 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned a “proficient” rating while another 2 percent earned an “advanced” rating. The other 66 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned ratings below “proficient,” including 44 percent who earned a rating of “basic” and 22 percent who earned a rating of “below basic.”
The test also showed that the reading abilities of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders had not improved at all between 1998 and 2009 despite a significant inflation-adjusted increase in the amount of money Wisconsin public schools spent per pupil each year.

lol

 

[TechGrrl]

Since Wisconsin does not have a filibuster as part of it's governing rules, the ONLY way the democrats can stop this railroad is to leave the state to prevent a quorum.

Mitch McConnell and the US Senate GOP had other rules to stop legislation in its tracks, even when they were in the minority. The Wisconsin Senators don't have that luxury. They have to do this the hard way.

Gov. Walker did NOT mention anywhere in his campaign (which had a LOT of outside money pouring into his coffers) that he intended to bust the unions.

 

[moreluck]

WI. residents are paying the Dem. politicians while they stay in another state and spend their $$$$ in that neighboring state....that make no sense to me at all!!

*** Maybe while they are all camping out in Illinois, they can cast some phony ballots for Rahm for mayor of Chicago.