It costs Ups less for Partn timers than to maintain slaves

[saintteamo]

It's sad but since the 1982 wage reduction ups has systematically destroyed what was once socialy benificial part time jobs. Young part timers used to be able to pay tuition,buy books, rent a room,buy clothes and food and own and operate a used car in exchange for thier back breaking work at ups. Now not one new hire can do this compared to tens of thousands pre 1982. Yet ups sells this slickly as offering great oppurtunities etc. Yet pt's pre 82 could go into driving etc . Ups has only increased the % to increase the savings through exploitation of high school youth etc. It is a national disgrace that ups gets 8 to 12 hrs of reasonable work productivity in less than 4 hrs time and all this with the low wages costing less than it would cost to own and maintain slaves. UPs needs to reform and make a committment to the American Public to return to the days of being socially benificial /responsible in regards to part timee compensation.

 

[tieguy]

Your union negotiates your contract and should be the one you hold accountable for these results.

 

[saintteamo]

if ups takes advantage of our makes a cozy deal with the union it is ups's fault. ups could offer to once again pay the full and fair rate . the union would go along.the blame is at least 99% ups.

 

[moreluck]

sainteamo:
If, in your words, there's a "cozy deal" made....then your union sold you out. Put the blame where it belongs!

 

[ok2bclever]

The slave remark is a bit offensive in this day and age, especially referencing it as an economical issue only, but the fact that the part time wage has eroded seriously is a fact.

The union has a long unsavory documented history of being run by a bunch of crooks, but for every sell out there must be a buyer and the company should have more integrity than that. Guess not.

Their short sighted greed over the last two decades of taking advantage of buyable crooks is causing them huge problems now.

Getting and keeping quality part timers is becoming an epidemic problem for the company.

The benefits are the only thing keeping the company from completely running out of part time workers and that just barely as many that age do not need benefits.

I was shocked that the company did not push hard to give more of the pie to new hire part timers. The problem is just going to keep getting worse.

 

[tieguy]

"It is a national disgrace that ups gets 8 to 12 hrs of reasonable work productivity in less than 4 hrs time"

Support your numbers. What is your measurement of what is reasonable.

 

[tieguy]

Support your numbers what is the cost of using slaves as opposed to using part-timers.

 

[tieguy]

"if ups takes advantage of our makes a cozy deal with the union it is ups's fault"

How exactly did we take advantage of the teamsters? They have the power to strike if we don't deliver what they demand? You have no accoutability for your union negotiating teams including the great Ron Carey therefore you have no part time wage rate.

 

[proups]

The part-time wage in 1982 was so far above the norm at that time that it would enable college students to pay tuition, buy books, eat, drive a car, etc....

Recognizing that, UPS has a program called "Earn and Learn" for it's PT employees in selected locations. UPS now provides monies for those students to use for tuition and books - a benefit not provided in 1982. They can then use their paycheck for food, etc...and by the way, have you seen some of the cars those kids drive? Pretty nice compared to what I drove when I was a part-timer!

sainteamo - give up. Use your energies elsewhere. I looked for black shirts Thursday and didn't see any. Nobody, except for a few people with a hate everything mentality, cares.

 

[saintteamo]

PROUPS, ASK ANY NEW PART TIMER WETHER THEY WOULD PREFER EARN AND LEARN OR THE $14.50 MORE PER HR THAT PRE 82 HIRES MAKE?

UPSSUP AKA TIE GUY,

ADD ABOUT $500 PER MONTH FOR A ROOM ,$250 PER MONTH FOR FOOD, $50 FOR CLOTHING , $500 FOR SECURITY ,CONFOINMENT AND SSUPERVISION AND THE COSTS YOU ALREADY PAY FOR MEDICAL,WHICH WOULD BE HIGHER AS THEYTN GOT OLDER AND INJURED MORE FROM THE ERGONOMICALLY IMOSSIBLE TO PERFORM SAFELY WORK ETC. i THINK MY INITIAl post is accurate or I wouldnt have posted it. Whart are your figures?

 

[saintteamo]

proups, in richmond ca almost no part timer can even afford a car. they all take ther bus. some even live in homeless shelters . ups is a national disgrace. When I was pt from 79 tio 87 I first took the bus and bart ,then bought a 61 vw bug ,then a brand new 84 mazda pickup with camper shell. etc Dont try to fool me or better yet stop trying to fool your self. Ups is a much worse place to work now than then due to simple greed.get off the company line you have been fed.Why aREyou planning to spend so much money advertizing the pt jobs if they are so great a deal? isnt it because with this bum contrac t that you will need a lot of fools to fill the revolving door?

 

[lcarroll]

If the P/Ters have it so bad (compared to other part time jobs) how is UPS able to attract and keep these tens of thousands of employees? What are you trying to say, that these people are too stupid to see for themselves how oppressed and miserable they are?

Apparently, I (a P/T Sup, or one of the "Nazi Youth" as you put it) give these people more credit for being intelligent human beings than you, their supposedly staunchest supporter, do.

If the jobs were as bad as you make them out to be, no one would take them, but whenever they run an ad for a few preloader positions at my little extended center (where we have roughly 55 preloaders on an average day) we get a mob of people - at least 40-50 - looking to fill those few spots. I guess they must be some of the best part time jobs out there.

Duh.

-Lance

 

[johnkyblue]

It isn't only UPS that does not pay well. It is the whole system. I think people that sweat and bleed like we do should make more than people that type for a living.

 

[johnkyblue]

(Message edited by johnkyblue on September 15, 2002)

 

[saintteamo]

icarroll, how long do they last.

 

[saintteamo]

icarrol, to some degree naive job inexperienced people are too stupid to realize how bad they have it. this is because they have no other work experience to compare ups with. also because like a woman or sometimes a man in an abusive relationship for some reason they hold on to the security they have rather than move on to something better.it's a psycological trap. but with education they can overcome this syndrome.

 

[proups]

saintteamo: I agree with Lance. It is that way in big hubs too...people flocking to UPS. The ones that are smart stay, the ones that don't want to work hard leave. Simple. It's not slavery, it's a choice.

How much is the cost of living where you are in California? Is that the same part of the country where a 1200 square foot house costs $500,000? No matter what UPS pays it's PT people, they can't afford to live out there. The FT people probably have a hard time too!

 

[lcarroll]

First of all, saintteamo, my username is lcarroll. I sign my posts "-Lance". Obviously then my username is "l"carroll not "i"carroll. Now that we've cleared that up...

From you, Saint, I'd like a list of just a few part-time unskilled jobs that offer better compensation (hourly pay rate plus benefits) than UPS. Now, I know you're going to say FedEx, since according to you that company is run by God Himself... so, other than FedEx.

Now, Saint, you asked a question of me: How long do they last? The most senior P/Ter in my operation has been there over 25 years. She obviously is not interested in driving. There are several people there that have over 15 years experience. In the Sort there are four guys that have between 7 and 9 years of experience. All of those guys are utility drivers and will probably be going to full time driver pretty soon. Sure, we've had some guys who come into the Unload after their orientation, work a half day there, then call the next morning and say that they're not coming in again. That's what the pre-seniority period is for, afterall.

For both you and Johnkyblue: Remember guys that these Package Handler jobs are unskilled positions to start out. If I'm not mistaken, the only requirement for them is that you be of legal working age and have a pulse. You are then trained by UPS to be a loader or sorter or whathaveyou. People who "type for a living" are skilled employees. The modern secretary/receptionist/clerk is usually required to type a certain number of words per minute and have some general computer training. This requires some form of trade school or junior college level classes to obtain. In other words, the person must make an initial investment of time and money to qualify for the skilled position. A UPS Package Handler needs only to be literate and willing to work hard. This is not to imply that they are stupid. I started out as an Unloader myself and I'm not a complete idiot.

UPS is one of the few companies where an essentially unskilled manual laborer can start at an entry-level part-time position and eventually become a full-time Driver making a very good, very livable wage comparable to many folks who have college educations.

-Lance

(Message edited by lcarroll on September 15, 2002)

(Message edited by lcarroll on September 15, 2002)

 

[jafo]

Saintteamo (real name Kim Cotter) has been selling this "slavery" slop on Teamster.net for years. She has proven to be more successful selling $25 "Black Thursday" T-shirts to finance her luxurious lifestyle at her California ski chalet.

 

[lcarroll]

Oh, one more thing, Saint.

You can't just title your threads any ol' thing without some evidence to back it up! For instance:

"UPS President Eskew challenged to debate on 60 minutes".

I hit that thread expecting to read a news article about a legitimate, scheduled appearance of Mike (I just call him Mike - we're tight, ya know

) on 60 Minutes, but NO - It's just you challenging him on an internet discussion board. Duh. You might as well start a thread titled:

"Teamster President Hoffa to replace Jennifer Aniston as Rachel on "Friends""

Both are equally true.

Another example is this thread we're in now. You can't simply state that it is cheaper for UPS to use "partn timers" than to maintain slaves. You've got to have some numbers to back that statement up. It is irresponsible to make such a statement if you don't. As a representative of a movement (the Black Thursday thing) you've got to watch what you say to maintain any credibility. Making wild, misleading, and/or unverifiable statements will eventually (sooner rather than later) lead to people disregarding you completely.

-Lance