sawdust,
No argument that some here drink the IBT coolaid and if they had their way, we'd be all forced at gunpoint to do the same thing. Did 705/710 spin off from everyone else to form their own deal? Yeah, it would look that way but granted I don't know the exact history so I can't say one way or the other how things took place. Whatever the case I applaud their efforts and consider them a good model to look at for sure. Same can be said of the IAM efforts for some of our auto/pe folks up in the northeast.
What I would point out however will sadly point the boney finger of blame for our CS situation pretty much right at ourselves because we also have to ask these all important questions.
1)Did we under the Central States plan ever sit back and look at the 705/710 models and ask the all important questions of "how are you guys doing this?"
2)Did we ever go to union meetings 5 ,10, 15, 20 years ago and demand our local leadership look into this and see what and how?
3)Once the midnight hour struck in Nov. 2004' did we go to union meetings and suggest our locals to look at the 705/710 model and if nothing else to start a secondary local retirement fund self financed out of our own pockets or some other mechanism that could compensate for the shortcomings of Central States?
My guess is most if not all the answers to those questions will sadly be no. That being the case, why are we to think that a new union which will require a lot more work and effort on the part of it's membership will be anymore successful? Now I'm no fan of the IBT and I've long advocated a UPS only union and still do for the very simple reason that a fudciary agent who represents members who work for competing business interests can't at the end of the day do all it can in the absolute best interest of each of it's members because in some cases the absolute best may in fact harm the standing of it's other members working at other companies. What's possible for UPS may not become reality because it could harm the standing of the members working at Yellow or where ever.
I use the over 70 situation in 94' as a good example. No argument that UPS didn't bring this issue up in the previous just completed contract talks but why? For safety reasons? Oh that was the party line and talking points but consider further. At the time, we were unable to proccess this volume so where was it? I'll contend much of it was on the freight side and those interests told the IBT "no way" to feeding that growing brown 600 lb. gorilla (we weren't 800 lbs. yet) so UPS did what it did (right or wrong or that part I won't defend or condemn) and forced the hand of the union and in the end we got the Over 70's and the union saved some face with some safety conditions that may or may not be used but that's another issue. From there the 100 weight, LTL stuff and now here we are in the freight business itself.
Is it possible that under a UPS only union that instead of multiple footprint facilities like our system is now with ground/air, freight, supply chain. logistics that instead we might have all of this under one roof buildings and all of us having opportunities to work in all these different functions? Can I prove that could be the case? Nope but you can't prove it wouldn't either, it's a possible potential. I do know that under the IBT, it's not possible because of the fact they also represent the workforce of the competition and therefore we must be held in check from reaching our max potential.
I happen to believe it's a longshot at best that APWA will gain any foothold anywhere. I personally think APWA should in fact use the 705/710 model of picking a locale and then pushing a de-cert movement to remove the IBT and install the APWA in it's place. Build that model first and if successful, I'd say you'd begin to see others do the same thing and in the end it might become that snowball rolling downhill. APWA and the whole idea IMO has done a great service to push the thinking of doing something serious or different about the pension. The company wants something done because the last thing it needs is an employee workforce pissed at the world because of the pension situation and we all know UPS' own practices already keep us pissed so why make it worse. Right?
UPS also doesn't want to throw good money at bad which right now that is exactly what is happening at Central States. Even the union is admitting this and finally asking CS the hard "why and what did you" and " what are you going to do" questions and also asking them why are other funds in such great shape and CS is not. The federal witching hour also kicks in next year so that pressure is on but I think most importantly is that the APWA has forced people to really think and ponder what has happened so in that respect APWA has done a good job for UPSers and I'll even say all UPSers. If you think about it, that's a fact but I'm sure there will also be much wailing and gnashing of teeth as well by many here.
At the same time, you APWA guys come off like vinyl siding salesman calling at suppertime who tell you anything and promise you anything to make the sale. Don't like that? Sorry pal, deal with it. You pop up everywhere and anywhere and I've got a feeling that a lot of these various alias' out there are in fact the one and same person to make the numbers look bigger than they really are and that is dishonest. How can I trust you on the big things when you play such games with the little?
APWA IMO has a good enough message on it's own merit but as I said your downfall IMO is trying to conquer the world all at once. Pick a small battleground somewhere and win the day and if the movement is and proves it's success, you'll have to fight people off trying to join.
That is MHO!
1 Your not walking in our shoes so how do you have the audacity to criticize our situation when yours is rosy ? !!!!!!!! You are not on the same page for sure !!!!
