UnconTROLLed
perfection
The slaves being freed was not Lincoln or the union's goal, nor was interfering with the southern states slavery. The goal was to stop the spread of slavery into the Western territories. Talk about revising history!
Martin Luther King Jr was a Republican
- Thread starter Catatonic
- Start date
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Lincoln is and has been both an interesting, misunderstood (myth making by both sides) and yet a man of vast contrasts. I've got a book which is a collection of his speeches on the issue of the freed African from the early 1900's (book copyright) and the hero of the black race he may or may not be depending on what one focuses on. Two good examples worth reading would be the First and Fourth Debate with Judge Stephan Douglas. In the first, Lincoln argues, and rightly so IMO, the African is entitled to the same life, liberty and pursuit of happiness freedoms in the Declaration of Independence and in the fourth debate he states the African inferior not worthy of standing in the ideal of voting or as juror.
Instead of the principled hero the myths we tell ourselves that he is, Lincoln may have been just another conniving politician we have come to be so accustomed to in these modern days.
As to MLK being republican, I'd challenge any republican here to go read MLK's Riverside Church speech and then come back to this thread and show MLK some serious love. The speech was absolutely heroic IMO but may well have sealed his fate, ironically one year to the day of this speech given.
I'd also like to make note that the United States as opposed to all other nations especially of some form of European extraction is the only nation to not end slavery except by means of war in the process. Everyone else did so peacefully.
island1fox
Well-Known Member
bbsam,
A discussion of past factual historical events- comparing them to current events may or may not have merit.
I refer to your post number number 15--"reworked history " In which you were reacting to the less than brilliant -- in fact dishonest statements of your pal--RR.
Between you and RR-- we see --claims of rewriting history,intentially misleading,and lies that have to called out.
Not calling me a liar ?
Still waiting for your liberal pal to come back and tell us such things as Lincoln was a Democrat and Obama has truly reduced the unemployment for minorities
A discussion of past factual historical events- comparing them to current events may or may not have merit.
I refer to your post number number 15--"reworked history " In which you were reacting to the less than brilliant -- in fact dishonest statements of your pal--RR.
Between you and RR-- we see --claims of rewriting history,intentially misleading,and lies that have to called out.
Not calling me a liar ?
Still waiting for your liberal pal to come back and tell us such things as Lincoln was a Democrat and Obama has truly reduced the unemployment for minorities
chrger1970
New Member
Just look at the speech from 5o years ago, the I have a dream. He said in that speech that he did not want his kids to be judged by the color of thier skin but for their content. That is screaming that he was against affirmative action.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
A tab OT but with the talk about Lincoln and the newly created republican party, both Lincoln and the republicans emerged from the ashes that was the old Whig Party. A worthy topic of research if one is willing. Also moving in the other direction towards our day, also research the late 19th and early 20th century "progressive" movement and see not only the "who" but where and how that factors into the legacy of the modern day GOP.
As to MLK and the GOP, in those days the south was solid democrat mostly as a backlash to the era of reconstruction at the hands of the then GOP. From top to bottom, the bedrock of the southern segregation political forces were democrat. The odds of being a democrat in those days of MLK and effecting political change with segregation was all but nil so voting GOP was likely to appear as an only option. One has to understand the Rockerfeller wing of the GOP to understand why MLK was a registered republican.
The 60's GOP as regarding civil rights is an interesting study when one mentions MLK voting GOP and then looking forward 50 years into today and how the GOP is viewed from the black perspective now. Timothy Thurber, Associate Professor of History, State University of NY at Oswego, offers a short summary that is an interesting read and may give clarity to MLK's actions.
As to MLK and the GOP, in those days the south was solid democrat mostly as a backlash to the era of reconstruction at the hands of the then GOP. From top to bottom, the bedrock of the southern segregation political forces were democrat. The odds of being a democrat in those days of MLK and effecting political change with segregation was all but nil so voting GOP was likely to appear as an only option. One has to understand the Rockerfeller wing of the GOP to understand why MLK was a registered republican.
The 60's GOP as regarding civil rights is an interesting study when one mentions MLK voting GOP and then looking forward 50 years into today and how the GOP is viewed from the black perspective now. Timothy Thurber, Associate Professor of History, State University of NY at Oswego, offers a short summary that is an interesting read and may give clarity to MLK's actions.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
I have to disagree on that.
Affirmative action can take the form of scholarships for a high performing teenager.
It can take the form of remedial education so an illiterate person can read and write.
Affirmative action that provides opportunity is something MLK would have embraced.
Providing welfare to lazy moochers in the name of affirmative action is something he would probably have screamed against because this holds people back rather than advancing them.
island1fox
Well-Known Member
bbsam,
I guess you have made yourself very clear. Agree with me , my opinions, perceptions and beliefs ---OR--- "I will certainly call you a liar."
Maybe that's the way you roll--but it does MAKE IT RIGHT OR TRUE.
There are millions of Americans of ALL races --including Black that believe the policies of the Democratic party have devastated the Minoritity communities.
Dependance programs --that some Americans believe were mainly for the politicians seeking their own power through enslaving others.
History also -shows -LBJ- changed his racial views --when looking for a pathway to the Oval office --not knowing that JFK would be assasinated
I would highly recommend "Blacklash" written by Black author Deneen Borelli who truly believes in "The power of the people and the power of the individual"
Was it the blind support for a Political party that has resulted in the learning disparities, high dropout rates, high Abortion rates, dissolution of the family unit through welfare programs, high single parent birth rate, high gang participation, high crime rate, high murder rate, high Black on Black violence , high unemployment rate and extreme poverty ????
Sure looks like the Democrat party has worked wonders.
Five years of the First Black President (if you do not count Bill C)---and what progress has been made ?? What is the Black unemployment number??? --with all the jobs Obama has claimed to saved or created ??
The Liberals claim the economy is moving right along ---seems like some are still being left behind.
Because a person has other "perceptions" of politics and policies ---than YOU ---does not make them or YOU a liar.
island1fox
Well-Known Member
bbsam,
The most important fact to me --Is that I would and do call MLK a great man !!
As far as Mark Levin --he is anti-Democrat and Republican---believes in much less government interference and restricting our freedoms.
I have not heard any thing "racist" from him --and would only venture a guess --that as MLK -made many speeches concerning hard work and being the best you can possibly be ---Levin would agree !!
We disagree again ---lets not go back to that liar crap again --leave that to rr
island1fox
Well-Known Member
BrownArmy
Well-Known Member
I think the terms 'Republican' and 'Democrat' have shifted many, many times in our nations' short history.
You call Reagan, I raise Clinton...you call Bush the 1st, I raise...???
In either case, if we're talking about MLK, my guess is he would be equally disgusted by every single player in this discussion.
The March on Washington was about JOBS and FREEDOM...fifty years later, we have not moved much in either direction.
I might remind the recalcitrant that MLK advocated for the rights of POOR WHITE AMERICANS along with POOR BLACK AMERICANS.
His fight was JUSTICE.
It's not black/white, it's EQUALITY.
MLK just wanted the U.S.A. to live up to it's founding documents.
We still seem to have problems implementing the very basic shhhhhhhht.
You call Reagan, I raise Clinton...you call Bush the 1st, I raise...???
In either case, if we're talking about MLK, my guess is he would be equally disgusted by every single player in this discussion.
The March on Washington was about JOBS and FREEDOM...fifty years later, we have not moved much in either direction.
I might remind the recalcitrant that MLK advocated for the rights of POOR WHITE AMERICANS along with POOR BLACK AMERICANS.
His fight was JUSTICE.
It's not black/white, it's EQUALITY.
MLK just wanted the U.S.A. to live up to it's founding documents.
We still seem to have problems implementing the very basic shhhhhhhht.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
I've always liked his Riverside Church speech but his "Letter from Birmingham Jail" is also a must read.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
newfie
Well-Known Member
study the history of the republican party post civil war. many of the southern states republican parties were started and strongly supported by black americans. Many black americans died when they attended the republican party meetings and conventions. Frederick Douglas was a republican.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
Nice try 1870's versus 1960's.
The answer = 90 years
Catatonic
Nine Lives
It's interesting to go back and read some one wrote philosophically over 3 years ago.
I still agree with this.
oldngray
nowhere special
Equal opportunity does not guarantee equal results. Individuals still need to work to improve their situations.
