grgrcr88
No It's not green grocer!
Incase you have never read any of Upstates other posts, Dishonesty is OK as long as its gets the job done for the customer!!
More I.E. stupidity!
- Thread starter soberups
- Start date
Incase you have never read any of Upstates other posts, Dishonesty is OK as long as its gets the job done for the customer!!
grgrcr88
No It's not green grocer!
In case you are unaware you have the right to refuse a request by management that is Unsafe, Unethical or Illigal
I would not do this, you are putting your job in jeapardy. And who do you thunk is gonna get canned when this gets discovered, guarantee the center manager will put it all on you somehow!!
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
...and reading yours shows that ignorance truly is bliss.
Suppose it was the closing on your house and you were waiting for some last minute paperwork. You see the UPS driver with your NDA envelope in hand in the lobby and figure, great, we're all set, but no--he is not allowed to deliver the pkg but has to wait for another driver to come clear across town to deliver the pkg. Meanwhile, you have high paid lawyers on each side of the table who have other matters to attend to besides your closing and I am sure that you would like to start moving in to your new house sometime that day but, you're right, we should do the "honest" thing and sit for 45 minutes.
Open the damn envelope, hand the contents over, and then sit and wait for the other driver to deliver the now empty envelope and let the lawyers do their thing and everyone is happy.
If taking care of the customer is dishonest than I guess I had better go to confession on a daily basis.
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soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
In the case I quoted, the four hours spent on road by the TAW would not have correspondingly reduced 4 hours from the 60 other drivers...maybe it would have saved an hour or two....
but this is irrelevant, since the TAW driver is going to get paid for 8 hours anyway, whether he delivers a package or not.
Any work done by a TAW should therefore be regarded as a "freebee". You will pay him the same amount of money for doing 0 stops as you will for doing 1, or 4, or 8, or 120 stops.
The issue here is how that work is coded. If the work done by the TAW is input into a DIAD, it shows up as a "route" and drags down the center average SPORH due to the large amount of time spent delivering those 3 or 4 misloaded stops.
My whole point is that any work done by a TAW...subject to reasonable limits of course... should be coded in such a manner as to not influence the center SPORH one way or another.
Or...we could quit busting our center managers balls over a .11 decrease in SPORH for one day so that he has the motivation and support to do the right thing for the customer instead of being forced to fearfully manipulate statistics in order to appease some IE goon who is ready to bury an axe in his back.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
I admire your willingness to take care of the customer here, but you are missing the point.
Why should the driver be put in the situation of having to make that decision in the first place? Why is it even an issue?
Your "solution", while certainly admirable and in the best interests of the customer, simply puts a Band-aid over the cancer of the underlying problem...which is IE's stupid obsession with manipulating statistics.
We arent supposed to allow customers to open packages without signing for them first. That is UPS's policy. In the case I described, there is no valid reason for the driver to do so.
I might consider your solution if my DIAD were broken and another one was being sent out to me on route. That would, in my opinion, constitute a legitimate reason to "bend" the rules a little bit and take care of the customer, and if it came back to bite me on the ass I would have a legitimate argument in terms of why I made that choice.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
You are exactly right and proper coding of TAW drivers would eliminate this.
pretzel_man
Well-Known Member
As an "IE Goon" I'm not done questioning the situation.
When you started the thread, you said about TAW: "This gives them the ability to perform useful work such as shuttling misloads, late air, or running empty vehicles out to routes with containment issues."
Now you say that the TAW work is a "freebee". Was it useful or not? I am all for having the TAW employee do the most beneficial work for the center.
So what happens to the four hours of "useful work" the TAW was supposed to do that is now spent delivering? Someone else will need to do that... Or was the work not "useful" to begin with.
By the way, from my perspective rules are supposed to be set up as a "speed bump", not a "road block". Ultimately, its the Package Division Manager who has the final say.
P-Man
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
And here is what should be at UPS.
IE should be the constructor of a framework of data that the center team and division manager use to dispatch. Information that is crucial, but not the actual written in stone delivery plan for the day.
The center team always should have the right to adjust the dispatch to custom fit the actual situation at hand. And if it takes someone to run air and a couple of left in buildings, then so be it. There will always be those little issues that come up that should not be made larger by the unseeing eye.
After all, that is what they are there for. To manage. But too often, all they are is really a messenger service for the unseeing eye.
But too many are so worried about the foot from above falling to make any adjustments to the plan.
d
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
The reality of TAW is that it often involves a lot of make-work.
It exists so that the company can have lower workmen's comp rates. An employee on TAW doesnt show as a "lost time" injury.
Its a win-win to some extent because the employee does not lose any pay and has the opportunity to spend a couple of days healing from a minor inury that would otherwise result in a comp claim and lost time.
It is, in some respects, a "freebie". The company made a decision to pay the driver for 8 hrs of TAW; so if he isnt out shuttling stops or shagging misloads, he would be sitting in the office reading a paper or doing trivial "make work". TAW can in some respects be compared to jury duty, funeral leave, or other non-productive paid time.
I can tell you that TAW is incredibly boring and demoralizing for a driver who is used to busting his ass and being productive for 9-10 hrs a day. I would rather work hurt and be in pain than to take TAW, but sometimes there just isnt any other option.
The current "rules" prevent TAW employees from being used at maximum efficiency because any work they do with a DIAD creates the illusion of decreasing the center SPORH average...even when they are in fact helping to increase that average.
Its a coding issue, nothing more. Fix the issue, dont put a band-aid over it by making the TAW guy wait there while the regular driver breaks trace to deliver a stop that the TAW guy could do for him.
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soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
And by the way, the same issues involved with using TAW employees also apply to employees who are on jury duty but who have been released from that duty early in the day and are available to work.
Per the contract, an employee who is called for jury duy but is then released from jury duty more than 6 hrs prior to his normal finish time is supposed to report to work for the remainder of his shift.
I can tell you from experience that center managers would prefer that these employees not even bother coming in...because there is no way to use them in a delivery capacity without running into the same SPORH issues that happen with TAW employees. The moment they pick up a DIAD and scan something with it, they make the centers numbers "look" bad.
8 hrs of jury duty codes out in a manner that doesnt negatively reflect on the centers numbers. The employee is gone; he isnt on the dispatch; he has no effect on SPORH. In the eyes of a center manager who is getting his balls busted by IE over production, "someone else" is paying for that driver to be on jury duty therefore there is no motivation to bring him in and make him work because of the reduction in SPORH that his presence will create.
Per the contract, an employee who is called for jury duy but is then released from jury duty more than 6 hrs prior to his normal finish time is supposed to report to work for the remainder of his shift.
I can tell you from experience that center managers would prefer that these employees not even bother coming in...because there is no way to use them in a delivery capacity without running into the same SPORH issues that happen with TAW employees. The moment they pick up a DIAD and scan something with it, they make the centers numbers "look" bad.
8 hrs of jury duty codes out in a manner that doesnt negatively reflect on the centers numbers. The employee is gone; he isnt on the dispatch; he has no effect on SPORH. In the eyes of a center manager who is getting his balls busted by IE over production, "someone else" is paying for that driver to be on jury duty therefore there is no motivation to bring him in and make him work because of the reduction in SPORH that his presence will create.
atatbl
Well-Known Member
lmao
Catatonic
Nine Lives
I knew you would.
hellfire
no one considers UPS people."real" Teamsters.-BUG
pretzel,,are you saying this is the right way to run a business and treat customers??--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.................................................. I was on TAW once and we had late air from the airport. I had a NDA letter for a title company and was instructed to go to the title company and wait there to give it to the driver who was clear at the other end of his route 15 miles away.
These were title documents. I was there; I had the letter; I had a DIAD; I had every ability to make service on that package. The customer came out and asked me for it, she said her buyers were inside waiting to sign. I called the center and asked for permission to deliver the letter...and was told "no."
We kept 3 customers at a title company waiting 45 minutes for their important title documents until the regular driver arrived """""""" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------...............................the cms say they have to do these silly things to make IE's numbers,,IE says the center team is at fault,, bottom line we are losing customers and money due to these silly number games
These were title documents. I was there; I had the letter; I had a DIAD; I had every ability to make service on that package. The customer came out and asked me for it, she said her buyers were inside waiting to sign. I called the center and asked for permission to deliver the letter...and was told "no."
We kept 3 customers at a title company waiting 45 minutes for their important title documents until the regular driver arrived """""""" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------...............................the cms say they have to do these silly things to make IE's numbers,,IE says the center team is at fault,, bottom line we are losing customers and money due to these silly number games
pretzel_man
Well-Known Member
Of course, in this example it was a stupid decision. No thinking I.E. or operator would think differently.
In the final analysis, its the operator's plan however. I have yet to find a package division manager who thinks they cannot change their plan. Show me the division manager who says he is putting the wrong number of routes on road or wrong stops per car due to I.E.'s numbers...
Rules are put in place to keep situations from getting abused. In this case, the rule did not match the situation. An operator should have done their job and overridden the general rule. Their NDPPH would have been improved.
P-Man
Catatonic
Nine Lives
hellfire
no one considers UPS people."real" Teamsters.-BUG
problem is,, this happens daily in every center, its amazing though how nobody in corporate is ever accountable, its allways those dumb drivers and lowly operations people, who are told how, and what to do, in regards to numbers and standards set by ??? cant be IE,, they dont understand how these dumb old operations people can ever have problems with the set standards that get them reamed on conference calls for not meeting ... I wish it was possible for a operator to override general rules and still be a employee
To play Devils Advocate:
If I were the driver coming across town to meet you, I would not deliver an empty envelope. The obviously pilfered envelope is supposed to go back to the clerk.
Just sayin'......
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
You the driver never ever have the right to open a package and give the contents to anyone. Ever.
And the package is never opened by a customer without signing for the package first.
Anything else, while it might be customer friendly, is driver deadly.
Cover your backsides. Cause no one else will should the crap hit the fan.
d
And the package is never opened by a customer without signing for the package first.
Anything else, while it might be customer friendly, is driver deadly.
Cover your backsides. Cause no one else will should the crap hit the fan.
d
brownman15
Well-Known Member
i did that when i was on taw a couple of years ago until center got into trouble. then i had to give pkgs to drivers even if it meant pkgs were late. many times gave drivers airs after commit time when i could have del them before it. then they wonder why we lose business.
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
Actually, they dont wonder, they know.
See, the drivers are not doing their job selling sales leads.
But of course, they forget that its pretty hard for a customer to understand a delivery at 11 or 12, when you the driver have already been there with their air at 9:15, and the ground at 10:45. And of course they tracked it so they know it made it to the center on time, along with the other air.
But remember, the customer really does not care what time the package is delivered, they only care that they can track the package. At least that is what the brains at UPS keep saying.
There is an old saying, you repeat something enough..........you begin to believe it yourself.....
d
See, the drivers are not doing their job selling sales leads.
But of course, they forget that its pretty hard for a customer to understand a delivery at 11 or 12, when you the driver have already been there with their air at 9:15, and the ground at 10:45. And of course they tracked it so they know it made it to the center on time, along with the other air.
But remember, the customer really does not care what time the package is delivered, they only care that they can track the package. At least that is what the brains at UPS keep saying.
There is an old saying, you repeat something enough..........you begin to believe it yourself.....
d
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