My timecard already says that I'm getting paid today for a "Legal Holiday", however, we are expected to come in today.

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

We are too, but some supplements have time and half only.

Our fat ass BA gave day after Thanksgiving back to UPS. Normal working day. I'm sure he put in a long day on Friday... (eating leftovers)

 

[zubenelgenubi]

It’s the age old debate. Is it triple time if you get the 8 hours holiday pay either way? I say no.

Here it’s double time for the first 8, triple time after 8, PLUS 8 hours of holiday pay.

You say tomato, I say I’ll rip your eyebrows off….

I picked triple time because it was less wordy than saying "the company and union can shove the triple time, double time and a half, and/or double time, and give me my 8 hours of straight time to stay home and not work".

There was nothing in my post that indicated I was trying to be precise or even accurate. The important point that sailed over people's head is that the time off is worth way more than anything they'd be willing to pay us.

 

[AKCoverMan]

Does the contract say anywhere that we get holidays off? I don’t think it does, it just dictates which days we observe as “holidays” and how we get paid for those days, both if we work or do not work.

My entire career (20 years next March) there has either been Air only or Full Service on Black Friday. When we only ran air about a third of routes were cut and a lot of guys ran short days while a lot of seniors took holiday off.

We have a major air hub here, they have people working 24/7/365. If a “holiday” is your scheduled day to work you are probably working, If there is a reduced schedule then some will be offered holiday off in seniority order.

Every airline and railroad union employee works weekends And holidays. In most cases holiday work pays big Bucks but the work still happens. In 7 day a week operations getting weekends off is a bidding and seniority thing not an indelible right.

Perhaps some locals have language that require no work on holidays? Post away!

 

[burrheadd]

Black Friday used to be a special operation day. I worked it two years as an air driver. Then, when I went ground, it became a working holiday. I will vote no on any contract that does not get us our holidays off, guaranteed, no more working holiday bull .

Good luck with that

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Good luck with that

Voting no is real easy. Let me know if you need help figuring out how.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Does the contract say anywhere that we get holidays off? I don’t think it does, it just dictates which days we observe as “holidays” and how we get paid for those days, both if we work or do not work.

My entire career (20 years next March) there has either been Air only or Full Service on Black Friday. When we only ran air about a third of routes were cut and a lot of guys ran short days while a lot of seniors took holiday off.

We have a major air hub here, they have people working 24/7/365. If a “holiday” is your scheduled day to work you are probably working, If there is a reduced schedule then some will be offered holiday off in seniority order.

Every airline and railroad union employee works weekends And holidays. In most cases holiday work pays big Bucks but the work still happens. In 7 day a week operations getting weekends off is a bidding and seniority thing not an indelible right.

Perhaps some locals have language that require no work on holidays? Post away!

All contracts that use the word "holiday" have language that specifiy no work. It's the word "holiday". It means a day of festivities when no work is done. This is why words are important. People can use a word their whole life and have no idea what it means, and their employers can play games with them and strip them of their rights, and they have no clue anything happened.

 

[Trucker Clock]

I say this with all due respect and in the interest of legitimate critique: you making that distinction when there is no meaningful difference is an exercise in pedantic inanity. If it makes you feel better to point out things that don't matter, great, because that is all you are accomplishing.

Just pointing out the fact to the people who think they are making triple time by working Black Friday, that they are not. Whether you think it matters or not is irrelevant. It is a fact.

I do agree with you though that I would rather have the 8 hours Holiday pay, have the day off and not worry about having to come to work and get paid double time.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Just pointing out the fact to the people who think they are making triple time by working Black Friday, that they are not. Whether you think it matters or not is irrelevant. It is a fact.

So you just decided to state a random fact. Ok. I got one: Mt St Helens erupted on March 27, 1980.

I do agree with you though that I would rather have the 8 hours Holiday pay, have the day off and not worry about having to come to work and get paid double time.

I also think we should go back to observed holidays when the holiday falls on an unscheduled day.

 

[JustDeliverIt]

Are you sure? Most Supplements state double time (or time and a half) for all hours worked. You do not get OT after 8 hours on top of the double time.

I do not know all of the Supplements, as to why I am asking.

Definitely how it has been here for my 15 years. First 8 or so, Black Friday was air only. Last 6 or 7 years it’s been a regular work day. 8 hours holiday pay, double time for the first 8 hours and triple time over 8.

Now our local has a carve out in our supplemental based on an arbitration win years ago to get paid like that for holiday work. Other locals gave up Black Friday for an extra rover last contract. They were getting time and a half for working.

 

[I have been lurking]

I’ll rip off your eyebrows

 

[AKCoverMan]

All contracts that use the word "holiday" have language that specifiy no work. It's the word "holiday". It means a day of festivities when no work is done. This is why words are important. People can use a word their whole life and have no idea what it means, and their employers can play games with them and strip them of their rights, and they have no clue anything happened.

No, the contracts do NOT say it’s a day of no work. That’s my point. If your local specifically says “no work allowed on contract holidays“ please share, but I am guessing it does not. I’m The contract merely states how much we get paid if we are off, and how much extra we are paid if we are working. It’s not about Websters definition of the word “holiday“.

And every union contract I worked under prior to UPS (all airline union jobs) were the same way. If the employer has operations on weekends and holidays, somebody has to work.

 

[Trucker Clock]

So you just decided to state a random fact.

Nope. Stated a fact in response to what you said. "I want my time off. The company and the union can shove their triple time."

As I stated, the Company is not paying you triple time for you to work on Black Friday, unlike what your statement says. And I responded only because I continue to see this false premise to this day, and you repeated it. Other people bragging, not you though, that they are making triple time working Black Friday. No they are not.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

No, the contracts do NOT say it’s a day of no work. That’s my point. If your local specifically says “no work allowed on contract holidays“ please share, but I am guessing it does not. I’m The contract merely states how much we get paid if we are off, and how much extra we are paid if we are working. It’s not about Websters definition of the word “holiday“.

And every union contract I worked under prior to UPS (all airline union jobs) were the same way. If the employer has operations on weekends and holidays, somebody has to work.

I agree we should have a glossary in the contract, defining what is meant by every term used in the entire contract. Until then, holiday means a day of no work. I will bet that every contract you ever worked under had stipulations about working holidays. They don't need to specify no work, because that is the definition of holiday. That is why they use the qualifier "working holiday", which really means extra money for working a day that you should have off. You can't just change the terms of a contract by pretending words don't mean what they mean. You certainly shouldn't be defending the company doing it, just because you've let it go your whole life.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Nope. Stated a fact in response to what you said. "I want my time off. The company and the union can shove their triple time."

It's either pedantic inanity or a random fact, I'm trying to give you the benefit if the doubt here.

As I stated, the Company is not paying you triple time for you to work on Black Friday, unlike what your statement says. And I responded only because I continue to see this false premise to this day, and you repeated it. Other people bragging, not you though, that they are making triple time working Black Friday. No they are not.

Ok, keep doubling down.

 

[Trucker Clock]

I agree we should have a glossary in the contract, defining what is meant by every term used in the entire contract. Until then, holiday means a day of no work. I will bet that every contract you ever worked under had stipulations about working holidays. They don't need to specify no work, because that is the definition of holiday. That is why they use the qualifier "working holiday", which really means extra money for working a day that you should have off. You can't just change the terms of a contract by pretending words don't mean what they mean. You certainly shouldn't be defending the company doing it, just because you've let it go your whole life.

UPS is good at those ambiguous terms.

How about a working suspension or working termination?

 

[Trucker Clock]

I agree we should have a glossary in the contract, defining what is meant by every term used in the entire contract.

That is not necessarily a good thing. The "gray" areas usually benefit the Union more than the Company.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

That is not necessarily a good thing. The "gray" areas usually benefit the Union more than the Company.

Not in my experience. I'd rather know what I'm trying to enforce than have the panel tell me that the plain reading interpretation of the contract is incorrect, and they've redefined words to mean things that go against common understanding of the definitions of those words without telling anyone. Kinda defeats the point of a contract.

 

[AKCoverMan]

I agree we should have a glossary in the contract, defining what is meant by every term used in the entire contract. Until then, holiday means a day of no work. I will bet that every contract you ever worked under had stipulations about working holidays. They don't need to specify no work, because that is the definition of holiday. That is why they use the qualifier "working holiday", which really means extra money for working a day that you should have off. You can't just change the terms of a contract by pretending words don't mean what they mean. You certainly shouldn't be defending the company doing it, just because you've let it go your whole life.

Not defending the company I’m just pointing out the fact the the world does not stop operating on weekends and holidays. It‘s not just some “Big, Bad, Evil UPS” thing. Ever flown in a plane, eaten at a restaurant, bought anything at a store on a weekend or holiday? Ever been in the hospital on a weekend or holiday?

If simply using the word “holiday” means no work why does every union contact specify how much more we are to be paid?

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Not defending the company I’m just pointing out the fact the the world does not stop operating on weekends and holidays.

So?

It‘s not just some “Big, Bad, Evil UPS” thing.

Who said it was?

Ever flown in a plane, eaten at a restaurant, bought anything at a store on a weekend or holiday? Ever been in the hospital on a weekend or holiday?

Other people's situations are irrelavent to our contract. If you think it's fair to be forced to work holidays because of other people's situations, that's your prerogative. Union Jobs are meant to pull everyone else up, not be pulled down by everyone else.

If simply using the word “holiday” means no work why does every union contact specify how much more we are to be paid?

That's exactly the point. Holiday means no work, so if the company wants to us have us work on that day, it has to be specified in the contract that they are allowed to do so, and what it will cost them. It's called a carve out, or a concession, which is not to be seen as a good thing. At most, any holiday work under our contract should be staffed strictly by volunteers, and the company should plan accordingly.

 

[AKCoverMan]

Other people's situations are irrelavent to our contract. If you think it's fair to be forced to work holidays because of other people's situations, that's your prerogative. Union Jobs are meant to pull everyone else up, not be pulled down by everyone else.

I am talking about our contract which does not say “no work on holidays”. And the examples of “other people’s situations” you say are irrelevant are also mostly union jobs… the airline jobs I had were all union jobs and all required that someone work on holidays. I spoke of being in the hospital on purpose, our Local represents many medical workers and believe me they work holidays.