need advice

[UnconTROLLed]

we all know the reason for all the safety mumbo jumbo, safteycomittee etc. friend it has nothing to do with actually keeping he employees safe; It's the way to pass an audit and keep insurance costs low; and when an employee is injured, it only (in the eyes of insurance) cements the fact the employee knew better and the injury, no matter who what when where and why, is in the wrong. The employees memorized the clever acronyms and what they stood for and recited them and signed off on it.

 

[soberups]

You are a respected member of the board, so I'm not trying to flame you here. But it seems you are using your own personal hatred for management's safety agenda to make your point......

I dont hate managements safety agenda. I merely feel that it is dishonest and misleading.

Safety begins with proper equipment, proper facilities, and a fair time allowance for the work to be performed. Empty catch phrases and acronyms are no substitute for these basic foundations of safety.

UPS has made a business decision in many cases to refuse to provide these basic foundations of safety, choosing instead to shift all responsibility for accidents and injuries back onto the employee.

The intent of UPS's safety programs is not really to keep us safe, it is to reduce liability and exposure to OSHA fines. The program was designed by lawyers, not drivers or package handlers.

For my part, I will put the same level of effort into passing the Keter audits as UPS has put into providing all of its employees with proper equipment, facilities and allowances. What UPS will get from me is the absolute bare minimum I am legally and contractually required to provide, and not a damn bit more.

 

[brownmonster]

If you get hurt at work, no matter how or why, it's still a comp injury.

 

[JULAKA]

I dont hate managements safety agenda. I merely feel that it is dishonest and misleading.

Safety begins with proper equipment, proper facilities, and a fair time allowance for the work to be performed. Empty catch phrases and acronyms are no substitute for these basic foundations of safety.

UPS has made a business decision in many cases to refuse to provide these basic foundations of safety, choosing instead to shift all responsibility for accidents and injuries back onto the employee.

The intent of UPS's safety programs is not really to keep us safe, it is to reduce liability and exposure to OSHA fines. The program was designed by lawyers, not drivers or package handlers.

For my part, I will put the same level of effort into passing the Keter audits as UPS has put into providing all of its employees with proper equipment, facilities and allowances. What UPS will get from me is the absolute bare minimum I am legally and contractually required to provide, and not a damn bit more.

This brought a tear to my eye! How much more beautiful and to the point could you be? All I can say is AMEN BROTHER!

 

[JonFrum]

I'm still trying to find in the contract where the 3-point belt is mandatory.
I went through it 3 times and can't find it.
Don't worry, I'll keep looking.

This 3-point safety belt language has been in the Contract since August 1, 1997 . . .

ARTICLE 18 - SAFETY AND HEALTH EQUIPMENT, ACCIDENTS AND REPORTS
Section 18. Vehicle and Personal Safety Equipment

All automotive vehicles shall be equipped with a manufacturer certified seat belt restraint system. Jump seats shall be equipped with a safety belt. Three-point shoulder harness safety belts shall be provided on the driver's side of all new vehicles, and on the jump seat for all new P-32 through P-120 vehicles and all new 24- foot vans. It shall be required that the driver's seat belt and the jump seat safety belt be worn at all times when the vehicle is moving.

Lap Belt language goes back even further.

 

[NHDRVR]

In my short (20 years) time with the company I have seen any and every attempt possible to try to work around a particular issue with mgmt. and your situation appears to be pretty simple. Sometimes it's worth it to know all of your 5's and 8's and all of the Ketter stuff just so when you are asked anything you know it won't be like pulling teeth. Being off of the radar can be a good thing...
I'm not saying that particular drivers aren't chosen over and over for this stuff but do your best to be left alone.

 

[screamin chicken]

I have been told by a driver that they do not like me, and now that I am standing up to them and working past 9.5 because they put the extra 10-20 on me is when all this crap started, they have picked on me from having my sleeves rolled up while others had theres rolled up also, to getting a 3 day sus. for misdelivering a resi. stop that was going right next door. I have had 3 other warning letters also, this is all within a yr. and a half. As of now I have only had 1 warning letter so as you can see I never did get my 3 day susp.or the other 2 warning letters. The good news is that both of my FT sups. fail there safety and the Div. Man. is coming down, so maybe there is light at the end and these a holes will start to fall.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

3 day suspension for misdelivering a residential stop?! You need to find a way to get back under the radar.

 

[HEFFERNAN]

I have been told by a driver that they do not like me, and now that I am standing up to them and working past 9.5 because they put the extra 10-20 on me is when all this crap started, they have picked on me from having my sleeves rolled up while others had theres rolled up also, to getting a 3 day sus. for misdelivering a resi. stop that was going right next door. I have had 3 other warning letters also, this is all within a yr. and a half. As of now I have only had 1 warning letter so as you can see I never did get my 3 day susp.or the other 2 warning letters. The good news is that both of my FT sups. fail there safety and the Div. Man. is coming down, so maybe there is light at the end and these a holes will start to fall.

If you got SUSPENDED for misdelivering a residential delivery.
Then

1) This has happened before
2) You are not doing the job right
3) Follow up discipline has not corrected your problem

DUDE, Apparently risking your job to make a point is not working for you. Get your resume ready to send to Fed-Ex when you get canned


OOOOOOOPPS

Fed-Ex wouldn't hire you if you got canned for misdelivering packages either. Enjoy your job while it lasts and prepare yourself for a low paying job delivering flowers for florists


OOOOOOOPPS

They need deliveries to the correct house as well! Your options are dwindling!

 

[NHDRVR]

I have been told by a driver that they do not like me, and now that I am standing up to them and working past 9.5 because they put the extra 10-20 on me is when all this crap started, they have picked on me from having my sleeves rolled up while others had theres rolled up also, to getting a 3 day sus. for misdelivering a resi. stop that was going right next door. I have had 3 other warning letters also, this is all within a yr. and a half. As of now I have only had 1 warning letter so as you can see I never did get my 3 day susp.or the other 2 warning letters. The good news is that both of my FT sups. fail there safety and the Div. Man. is coming down, so maybe there is light at the end and these a holes will start to fall.

3 days for a resi screw-up?? No offense but either your file is jammed with papers or your steward was asleep in the office.

 

[NHDRVR]

We work for a company that made a business decision that our lives were not worth the additional $40 expense of a 3 point seat belt and that our health was not worth the additional expense of basic ergonomic features such as power steering and adjustable seats in the older package cars.

Why then should we as employees make any effort at all towards helping that very same company get a passing grade on a stupid audit so that they can pretend to care about our safety?

As far as I am concerned they should take that "$44 an hour" and use it to make meaningful improvements to the equipment and facilities we work in. Or, they can take that $44 and shove it up their collective asses. At this point I dont really care. But please... dont waste it on trying to turn me into a parakeet.

Well said...

 

[browniehound]

I think it's a fitting analogy.
Because you can say it doesn't mean you can, or you do, practice the subject matter.
BH I don't know what roads you travel, but I'm hard pressed to say most people can (or do) drive safely in my neck of the woods.

Bubblehead,
I happen to agree with you on two points. One, knowing the material will not automatically make you a safe driver. Second, you're right, most drivers are idiots (I live in Boston for heavens sake!).

That being said, UPS drivers are not idiots because we have been trained. This is the difference between us and the general public.

My point about the analogy was that its far more difficult to hit a golf ball straight than it is to drive a car. People spend their lives working on their game and still stink! To drive a car takes about 6 months of driver ed. Thats all I was trying to say.

 

[BrownSuit]

Anybody else getting the feeling at this point that there is more to the story and the OP's discipline record?

 

[browniehound]

How many people who driver safely even know what the 10 point commentary is or the 5 seing habits? Tell us to be careful, to obey the speed limits, to do any number of things that will contribute to a safe day, but don't ask us to memorize and recite. That is ridiculous and ineffective...a complete waste of time.

JULAKA, I have to disagree with you. I'm a driver of almost a decade. In that decade I have learned that there will be a consequence from UPS for any injury or accident regardless of the circumstances.

The 5 seeing habits and 10 point commentary are there to protect YOU from other motorists. Its there for YOUR benefit. Why not learn them and practice them for YOUR sake? Why do you look at as UPS making you learn something? Its actually a benefit to you to know the 5 seeing habits.

Unless you like having accidents, follow-up rides, managers following you, and scrutinizing every movement you make on the 'space and vis' ride, why not take it seriously? If you like those things then just ignore it.

I know it verbatim and I practice it every day. Because I have it memorized I do it without thinking about it.

 

[tieguy]

I'm saying that instead of trying to impose these neat, tidy little lists of things to keep you safe, why not ask the drivers who have gone 30 plus years what they do to accomplish such a feat.

We did guess what they live and practice space and visibility and ten point commentary. They bend thier knees and lift with thier legs. Thats why they make thirty years.

They didn't do it by couting 1, 2, 3 at an intersection.

You sure . I bet you they did. They certainly did not drive safely for thirty years by starting up with the driver in front of them and riding the guys rear.

They didn't do it by maintaining 5-8 second following distance.

I guess you're going to tell me they tailgated people for thirty years?

How many drivers here honestly count, "OK 1 one thousand, 2 one thousand, 3 one thousand,

Its real simple the safe ones don't sit there and count like you say but they do it. When you have been doing it for thirty years you don't have to sit there and count you automatically wait the appropriate time. Now start your own company and tell me how you will teach someone to drive safely if our information is so stupid.

OK, imaginary target, dartboard, look left, right, left, OK what now, DAMN, what is number 6 on the 10 point commentary, oh CRAP, uh, I better pull over and get my little laminated card so that I can continue safely on to my next stop."

Memorize and you won't need the card.

These 30 year drivers have thousands upon thousands of tips and suggestions to share, and it can never be memorized. It all boils down to being extra alert and attentive. I haven't had an accident in 17 years, but I think my manager would rather I did have an accident each year, as long as I could recite his little saftey list.

I would not try to prove that point if I was you. You're butting your head against a wall. The information helps you drive safely. The company will require you know it. This is not going away.

This is really a silly argument you're making. Take a different angle for a change. If you think maintaining a proper following distance is not needed then make a post and tell us how to tailgate someone and still drive safely.

If you think 8 to 12 second eye lead time is not a required method then tell us how you can stare at the pavement in front of your vehicle and still drive safely.

Don't like the intersection information? Tell us how you can do a better job of clearing intersections by violating our rules.

Don't think you need to develop eye contact with other motorists when on the road then tell us how you communicate to get someones attention when they are not looking at you without using the horn?

It all comes down to having a consistent set of rules that you use to drive safely on the road. If you don't know what you're supposed to do then you won't do it.

So make a post and tell us how you personally will train drivers to drive safely without using any of our principles.

I'll await your superior training.

 

[tieguy]

I dont hate managements safety agenda. I merely feel that it is dishonest and misleading.

you do hate it . Be honest. You have some kind of personal agenda against it because you found something the company would not do to meet your impression of what should be done.

So since the company did not drop everything when you opened your mouth and come a running to do your bidding you have decided you will badmouth the whole process and forcefully reject safety training that will help you drive safely if you learn it and use it.

To summarize you're paid to know it and use it. Right now you're fighting your own little I want to tell the company how to run thier safety program fight because I am so much smarter then the company campaign.

Eventually you will get a boss with gonads to do his job and he will make you learn the information. Until then have fun talking all your overembellished bigstuff.

this post is not a flame but an honest opinion of what you do.

 

[tieguy]

3 days for a resi screw-up?? No offense but either your file is jammed with papers or your steward was asleep in the office.

he didn't get a three day for a resi screw up he got a three day for being a screw up. You have to have many talk withs, a warning letter and probably a 1 day supsension before you get to the point of having a three day for a resi screwup.

 

[Big Babooba]

I here that guy has now put out the 10 keys to having sex and the 14 keys to eating a hamburger. I better get to memorizing! (Even though I have been doing both successfully for a long time!)

Remember, solo sex doesn't count!

 

[705red]

Remember, solo sex doesn't count!

Its not solo if you have a hamburger in hand!

Thats called a date!

 

[Big Babooba]

Its not solo if you have a hamburger in hand!

Thats called a date!

Just hold the pickle!