need advice

[soberups]

you do hate it . Be honest. You have some kind of personal agenda against it because you found something the company would not do to meet your impression of what should be done.

No, I dont hate it. I merely recognize it for what it is, rather than what UPS presents it to be. It is a program created by corporate lawyers that is designed to shield UPS from liability and deflect attention away from the unsafe equipment, inadequate facilities and impossible time standards that UPS insists have nothing to do with a safe work enviornment.

Is the information useful? Yes. Does knowing it help one to become a better driver? Yes. Is it an adequate substitute for safe vehicles or equipment? No.

 

[soberups]

To summarize you're paid to know it and use it. Right now you're fighting your own little I want to tell the company how to run thier safety program fight because I am so much smarter then the company campaign.

I have 11 yrs safe driving and 22 years without a lost-time injury. I walk the walk. I did not attain that record by playing 2nd-grade word games and eating doughnuts.

 

[soberups]

Eventually you will get a boss with gonads to do his job and he will make you learn the information. Until then have fun talking all your overembellished bigstuff.

Ive been waiting for 22 years to meet a boss with gonads. I'm pretty sure that gonad removal is required prior to going into management. UPS doesnt want managers who think for themselves or question authority, they want lemmings who will follow the company line right off the cliff if told to. So as long as I show up at the safety meeting as instructed and read the commentary off of my little 3x5 card, my boss will just check my name off the list for that month and call it good. They aren't going to waste time arguing with me when there are doughnuts and socks to be handed out.

"Overembellished bigstuff"....I like that phrase. Is that an original, or is it part of some Keter audit BS that I havent heard about yet?

 

[over9five]

That is one thing that I will NOT do - take work home with me - or work off of the clock

Agree 100%. I would never study this stuff at home either!

The sad thing about it is that in a few months, you will have forgotten it.

Possibly, so I try to go thru it a couple times a week (on the clock).

I'm still trying to find in the contract where the 3-point belt is mandatory.
I went through it 3 times and can't find it.
Don't worry, I'll keep looking.

LOL!!!

This 3-point safety belt language has been in the Contract since August 1, 1997 . . .


Lap Belt language goes back even further.

The key phrase is "all new vehicles".

 

[HEFFERNAN]

I have 11 yrs safe driving and 22 years without a lost-time injury. I walk the walk. I did not attain that record by playing 2nd-grade word games and eating doughnuts.

11 years ago, you cost UPS money !
This is what the company is trying to prevent for the future.

Can accidents be prevented? for the most part
Will memorizing key phrases help you? No
BUT will having working knowledge of what they are trying to have you remember HELP you avoid accidents? YES


But I'm sure your accident was unavoidable and no UPS safety methods would have helped you. Tell me Sober, did that rock falling out of the sky cause front or rear damage?

 

[705red]

Heff, I'm a little surprised. Everyone knows that ups preaches safety and pounding all this training in to you. Take haz,at for instance, how many people do you know that reported a leaking package on route, only to be told to be careful and place in a dr bag? I have never seen that in any haz mat video.

Ups feels like sober said, they are covering their rear ends by giving us this training!

We work for a company that actually sets standards, each center is allowed so many injuries, accidents. If ups practiced what they preach these numbers would never exist!

Im with sober 100%!!!!!!!!!

 

[HEFFERNAN]

I do agree with your Hazmat scenario. I have personally never called in a leaker when something was leaking in my truck. We are suppose to treat any leaker as if it was haz. I was suppose to dont touch, secure vehicle, leave area, notify sup. I basically did it myself, and cleaned up monavie spill and put in bag. The last thing management wants us to do is stop working and ruin the route for the day. You are correct.


RED

If you owned your own landscaping company.
Become successful.
Buy 5 new trucks for your employees to use to help you make money.
Then 2 guys rip a lawn up backing up the driveway.
Costs you money to fix.
Then 1 guy doesn't clear an intersection, and totals YOUR truck.

Do you let that driver, if not all your drivers, back up a driveway again?
Do you beat into your employees head that if they drive your trucks, you need to follow my safety rules?

Or do you accept they were accidents and keep on losing money.

THIS IS THE EXACT SAME SCENARIO BUT WITH THOUSANDS OF TRUCKS

 

[sano]

We work for a company that actually sets standards, each center is allowed so many injuries, accidents. If ups practiced what they preach these numbers would never exist!

I don't agree. I think it is amazing we don't have more injuries than we do. When I look at the preload operation I work in, it blows me away that we have that many people loading heavy odd shaped packages and yet very few significant injuries.
Becouse of what we as a company do (lift heavy stuff in and out of package cars millions of times per day) There is no way to avoide some injuries.
It is not UPS's fault it is the nature of the beast.

 

[705red]

Sano i do not disagree, but ups allows a certain amount! I understand that it will happen and does happen. I have a problem with ups saying that as a center we are allowed to have 8 accidents this year or 6 injuries. Their should not be any allowance for either, at least numbers wise.

At times it is ups's fault! How many accidents/injuries happen after a driver has 9.5 hours worked?

How many happen because a driver has too much work?

The employee does share as much blame in my last sentence but none in the first.

 

[705red]

I do agree with your Hazmat scenario. I have personally never called in a leaker when something was leaking in my truck. We are suppose to treat any leaker as if it was haz. I was suppose to dont touch, secure vehicle, leave area, notify sup. I basically did it myself, and cleaned up monavie spill and put in bag. The last thing management wants us to do is stop working and ruin the route for the day. You are correct.


RED

If you owned your own landscaping company.
Become successful.
Buy 5 new trucks for your employees to use to help you make money.
Then 2 guys rip a lawn up backing up the driveway.
Costs you money to fix.
Then 1 guy doesn't clear an intersection, and totals YOUR truck.

Do you let that driver, if not all your drivers, back up a driveway again?
Do you beat into your employees head that if they drive your trucks, you need to follow my safety rules?

Or do you accept they were accidents and keep on losing money.

THIS IS THE EXACT SAME SCENARIO BUT WITH THOUSANDS OF TRUCKS

Ups says they do not want you to back or drive in driveways, however at the same time they do not want you to bring 20 stops back because you walk off every driveeway.

If ups was serious about staying out of driveways they would not over load a driver wth work. However now if you have an incident, its you the driver at fault!

Ups has covered their ass! Its a perfect preaching but not practicing scenario. IMO

 

[HEFFERNAN]

Ups has covered their ass! Its a perfect preaching but not practicing scenario. IMO

I 110% agree with you !!

Just because we feel this way, doesn't mean it's not our obligation to follow it. They OWN the company. They RUN the company. They PAY us.
We can't expect them to prove they are being honest and forthcoming to us every time we question an order.

If my wife told me to prove it everytime I said I love you, our relationship would go down the drain. Unfortunatly, being at the battlelines of union fights, we tend to believe they never really care and we are not to far from the truth.

Sometime, somewhere we have to trust each other. I don't think that will happen.

 

[HEFFERNAN]

To counter the driveways, we collectively as a union must not go up driveways and make them pay us for it. Maybe they will change their tune.

I choose not to care what numbers pop out of that computer. Don't care what my overallowed was. Don't care when I finish and come into the building. Don't care if I had 5 incidents of having the bulkhead door open?

I take the truck out , deliver safely and with a sense of urgency, and bring the truck back in one piece right where I started from. If you are taking care of your area and not creating stupid problems. Anything out of the computer is meaningless, at least to me.

To get back to the thread, having working knowledge of the safety lingo keeps you off the radar and can only help you. No sense fighting it.

 

[dilligaf]

Just hold the pickle!

WHAT? The pickle is the best part!

 

[screamin chicken]

he didn't get a three day for a resi screw up he got a three day for being a screw up. You have to have many talk withs, a warning letter and probably a 1 day supsension before you get to the point of having a three day for a resi screwup.

For the record I made a mis delivery 1 never was I spoke to, I never got the warning letter, and for you to call me a screw up you can go ************. You must be a sup. yourself, you do not have a clue what *******S we work for, again like I said this is a new 3 man team and a women center manager. The old center manager and the other 2 sups. were fired and then these new *******S came down. The center manager hates men, and the 2 Sups. are so prejudice it's not even funny. You really do not have a clue on how crooked thes 4 are. I have done everything I can to be a good driver, I go that extra mile, I run 150-160 and I am back to the center with no attitude before 6, I finally get tried of the man pushing me so I take up for myself and stay out and I am a screw up you *************you are no diffrerence then they are, you are probably just like them.

 

[toonertoo]

Screamin chicken, after 18 yrs you should know. Do what you gotta do. Management teams change quickly, and unless you blow it, you will be there they will be gone. Relax, its just a game. Learn the bull, it isnt hard. Then no worries. You do it anyway, you just dont know it in sequence.

 

[705red]

For the record I made a mis delivery 1 never was I spoke to, I never got the warning letter, and for you to call me a screw up you can go ************. You must be a sup. yourself, you do not have a clue what *******S we work for, again like I said this is a new 3 man team and a women center manager. The old center manager and the other 2 sups. were fired and then these new *******S came down. The center manager hates men, and the 2 Sups. are so prejudice it's not even funny. You really do not have a clue on how crooked thes 4 are. I have done everything I can to be a good driver, I go that extra mile, I run 150-160 and I am back to the center with no attitude before 6, I finally get tried of the man pushing me so I take up for myself and stay out and I am a screw up you *************you are no diffrerence then they are, you are probably just like them.

I wonder how diad lover would mad lib this post? Man do i miss him!

 

[NHDRVR]

he didn't get a three day for a resi screw up he got a three day for being a screw up. You have to have many talk withs, a warning letter and probably a 1 day supsension before you get to the point of having a three day for a resi screwup.

point taken...

 

[JULAKA]

Most managment quit driving because they couldn't handle it for whatever reason. So of course It would do me no good to take advice from failed drivers. You can't memorize your way into safe situations. The drivers that can do it, do it. The ones who can't, memorize, have accidents, and eventually become managment.

 

[tieguy]

Ive been waiting for 22 years to meet a boss with gonads. I'm pretty sure that gonad removal is required prior to going into management. UPS doesnt want managers who think for themselves or question authority, they want lemmings who will follow the company line right off the cliff if told to. So as long as I show up at the safety meeting as instructed and read the commentary off of my little 3x5 card, my boss will just check my name off the list for that month and call it good. They aren't going to waste time arguing with me when there are doughnuts and socks to be handed out.

"Overembellished bigstuff"....I like that phrase. Is that an original, or is it part of some Keter audit BS that I havent heard about yet?

your analogy of saying all safety committes do is eat donuts is the same as someone who does not understand your job saying all you do is drive a truck. There is a lot more involved with safety committees than you seeing them out there giving out trinkets. The strength of the safety committees relys on the individuals willingness to step up and make things happen. Some individuals involved will I agree be no more use to you then handing out donuts and trinkets. But there are many including shop stewards who get involved and make things happen. In many cases they act as buffers from management. If management goes out and does an observation and sees you working unsafely you may get a warning letter. The safety committe can go out and do observations and correct unsafe behavior without management getting involved or knowing about it.

 

[tieguy]

Sano i do not disagree, but ups allows a certain amount! I understand that it will happen and does happen. I have a problem with ups saying that as a center we are allowed to have 8 accidents this year or 6 injuries. Their should not be any allowance for either, at least numbers wise.

At times it is ups's fault! How many accidents/injuries happen after a driver has 9.5 hours worked?

How many happen because a driver has too much work?

The employee does share as much blame in my last sentence but none in the first.

If you honestly believe fatigue is an issue then do you apply the same rules at home. Do you measure how much work you do around the house and stop all activity and lock yourself up in a padded room once you complete a specific amount of honey do's? No you do not you still have to function and you still better think about what you're doing or you will hurt yourself at home.

Since you bring up the workload you also work with people that burn the candle at both ends. If fatigue is a legitimate issue and to some degree it is then what do you do to encourage people to get the proper rest. If you as a steward constantly encourage people to get the proper amount of rest and sell them on the importance then you could be a valuable wellness champion on our safety committees.

Safety committees help us encourage safe lifestyle habits on a peer level.