New over 9.5 rules?

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
Well, I'm officially on the 9.5 list now and have a grievance to file on monday. The only thing that I think sucks about this whole situation is, I already have a panel decision on this. Why the hell do I have to go through this whole thing all over again?

I am sorry to read that you are going through all this crap!

Besides the micro-managing questions
I wonder if some of this stems from the fact that most centers now have PT PM supervisors which allows the FT On Road to go home and there is no real incentive to get the drivers in. Back when I was running centers, a FT mgmt person had to be there till the last driver got in.

There was a real incentive to get the drivers in under 9.5 hours.
 
I am sorry to read that you are going through all this crap!

Besides the micro-managing questions
I wonder if some of this stems from the fact that most centers now have PT PM supervisors which allows the FT On Road to go home and there is no real incentive to get the drivers in. Back when I was running centers, a FT mgmt person had to be there till the last driver got in.

There was a real incentive to get the drivers in under 9.5 hours.
Then we need to get back to that. However, I'm not sure that would help anymore. It isn't the center management team that decides how many routes to put on the road each day. When you have more stops/packages than you have routes to run them somebody's gonna stay out past 9.5. In our center almost 1/3 of our drivers are dispatched with O/9.5 days.
 

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
So just wondering, do yall have the same cover driver deal in the new agreement. Meaning you cover(or whateever you call non-bid router full time drivers in your area) routes when the bid driver is gone, and float around until you bid a route. They have told us you gotta be 3 days over 9.5 on the same route. To me that blows, cause now they are purposely asking higher cover drivers, like myself, to take certain routes cause so and so has already had 2 days over 9.5 on the route. Also, it's not like I don't know the area any less than the regular driver on most that I cover. Just seems like they found away to add another tier of driver into the works. I guess I could just bid the crap unassigned routes, cause nobody wants them.:peaceful:
WRONG! Oh no no no no! As Trpl said, there is nothing in the contract that says it has to be on the same rte. This is just another game they are trying to play. They did the same thing with the mileage issue here and it did not fly. If I were your BA, I'd be jumping all over this in a big way.
 

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
I am sorry to read that you are going through all this crap!

Besides the micro-managing questions
I wonder if some of this stems from the fact that most centers now have PT PM supervisors which allows the FT On Road to go home and there is no real incentive to get the drivers in. Back when I was running centers, a FT mgmt person had to be there till the last driver got in.

There was a real incentive to get the drivers in under 9.5 hours.
Our On Rd is rarely ever there past, say 6pm. The only time he is there any later than that is when the DM or DM is there. Our PM Sup comes in about 5pm, so I would say yes, you are probably right. Once our on rd gets the PM lined out he is gone like the wind. And he won't answer our calls either.
As far as the 9.5's go, he was doing really good at keeping us under until recently. But they are being forced to pull rtes all week (since Jan 1) and it has snow-balled. I understand that he has little to no control over rtes being pulled but when are they (IE, I guess) going to start realizing what problems they are causing? I was over on M/T and it gets harder and harder as the week goes by to keep us under. The centers plan sick calls. I'm sure if I hadn't called in sick on Fri, I would have been over again. We have had 1 driver violated every week for the past 3 weeks. It seems that once the violations start there is no end to them.
 
govol read the contract for the years 2002 thru 2008 the work over 9.5 three times in 1 week has always been there. this is not a 9 to 5 job so if you think you can find a job that pays 28.00 an hr plus 10.00 in bennies then thats where u should be. i ve been here 20 :censored2: yrs and tired of u people blaming the union, when is the last time u went to your general union meeting.. so before u blame the union talk to your steward or agent, and yea your right ups would give you that hrly rate w/ those bennies if you were non union because your a good person lol
 
govol read the contract for the years 2002 thru 2008 the work over 9.5 three times in 1 week has always been there. this is not a 9 to 5 job so if you think you can find a job that pays 28.00 an hr plus 10.00 in bennies then thats where u should be. i ve been here 20 :censored2: yrs and tired of u people blaming the union, when is the last time u went to your general union meeting.. so before u blame the union talk to your steward or agent, and yea your right ups would give you that hrly rate w/ those bennies if you were non union because your a good person lol
Obviously you didn't read the Memo from Govol's post. The "guidelines" in that memo actually changes how the O/9.5 is worded from the contract of '02-'08 and '08-'13 to the companies benifit. These guidelines came from talks in the National O/9.5 committee(something new in the '08-'13 contract) AFTER the contract was voted on and ratified. Being at every union meeting held at the local hall would have no bearing on these guidelines.
The rest of your inflammatory post has nothing to do with the o/9.5 language.
I will say that the union did a good job....at giving away the over 9.5 language in this "committee" . They effectively removed any relief from excessive overtime for an extended area driver and also gives the company a weeks free O/9.5 grievances for ORIGINAL contract violations. The union reps on the National O9.5 committee did not act in the driver's nor the contract's best interest. Bottom line they caved in.
 

HEFFERNAN

Huge Member
Our union carries absolutley no weight now. Very sad...


They will tell you the same thing management tells you.

Buckle the belt, keep the bulkhead door closed, follow their instructions, and make the extra 10,000 dollars a year from their decisions.


WHOOPS :surprised:

Management didn't tell us that last one :wink2:
 
dilligaf i think the reason you have to go thru the whole process again is to build a case, ups is smart and has a lot of money to burn at arbortration more then the teamsters my advice is to just keep filing the 9.5 grievances hopefully ups will get the picture
 
Drivemecrazy, read the contract. Over 9.5 grievances do not go to arbitration. If they aren't handled on the local levels they go to the National Over 9.5 Committee, which consists of people from the company and the union.
From the contract:
If a grievance under this provision (or a grievance under any excessive overtime provision of a Supplement, Rider or Addendum) cannot be resolved at the local level, including Supplemental Panels, where applicable, the Union may docket the grievance to be heard by the “9.5 Committee.”
This Committee shall be composed of two (2) Union and two (2) Employer representatives. The 9.5 Committee shall have the authority to direct the Employer to adjust the driver’s work schedule.
Deadlocked cases shall be referred to the Employer’s Vice President of Labor Relations and the Co-Chair of the Teamsters United Parcel Service Negotiating Committee for final and binding resolution.
 

brownmonster

Man of Great Wisdom
What is so complicated about giving someone less than 9.5 hours. We have some guys that never see a 9 hour day. The problem I see is the guys running 2 hours late and filing greivances. I know standards are wacked but 2 hours late?
 

govols019

You smell that?
govol read the contract for the years 2002 thru 2008 the work over 9.5 three times in 1 week has always been there.

Maybe you should be the one to brush up on your reading there, smart guy. There was no opt in/opt out list in the last contract. Now, you have to work three in a week before you can even sign the list to opt in. Pay attention and try to keep up.

this is not a 9 to 5 job so if you think you can find a job that pays 28.00 an hr plus 10.00 in bennies then thats where u should be.

Nobody is asking for a 9 to 5 job. What I don't like is a 8:30 to 8:30 job. The spiel about the wages we are paid is tired and old. Get a new routine.

i ve been here 20 :censored2: yrs and tired of u people blaming the union, when is the last time u went to your general union meeting.

I pay my Union dues and I can blame them when I think they sold us out. That's my right.

so before u blame the union talk to your steward or agent, and yea your right ups would give you that hrly rate w/ those bennies if you were non union because your a good person

My steward nor my BA sold me out on the 9.5 language. Talking to them would serve no purpose.

Again with the wage and benefits thing?
 
What is so complicated about giving someone less than 9.5 hours. We have some guys that never see a 9 hour day. The problem I see is the guys running 2 hours late and filing greivances. I know standards are wacked but 2 hours late?
Out of 65-70 drivers on road, we have probably 1/3 of the 2+ hours over allowed and they are the runner/gunner types. The standards in our center are so "wacked" that it's comical. To add insult to injury more than 1/2 of the routes are dispatched over 9.5 with the "wacked" allowances. Yet, no one seems to be willing to fix the problem.
 

rod

Retired 22 years
Out of 65-70 drivers on road, we have probably 1/3 of the 2+ hours over allowed and they are the runner/gunner types. The standards in our center are so "wacked" that it's comical. To add insult to injury more than 1/2 of the routes are dispatched over 9.5 with the "wacked" allowances. Yet, no one seems to be willing to fix the problem.

Now that sounds like the standards at my old center. The majority of drivers were at least an hour over everyday. In fact you got called into the office if you were underallowed because they figured you were "up to something":wink2: jk
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
I find this topic very interesting. I realize it has been a million years since I was in any of the driver's shoes when it comes to 9.5 hours.

Please take this as an outsider looking in....

In today's economy when there are so many people either out of work or losing their homes or facing pay cuts or freezes, I find it laughable that many of you are so concerned about working over 9.5 hours. You may be singing a different song if the company (God forbid) lays you off in the coming months. There is no guarantee that this recession is going to get better. It could get much worse.

You should take what you can get and BANK your money. You never know what is going to happen in the next 6 months or year. Be glad you are working 9.5 hours or more.

It is my opinion that this recession is going to change the mindset of X and Y gen way of thinking. Especially those who lose it all. It won't take long for the philosophy of the Great Generation and the Baby Bomers to take root in their mindset if this continues to go the way I think it is heading.

This is one time that I hope I am so wrong.
 

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
LIFER,

Lets see if I can give a little perspective to help you see the lite. First, understand that I don't have the many years of experience that many of the drivers do. 3 yrs driving here.

1st- Looking at this from a union perspective (maybe not the highest priority, but definately a priority no the less)

The goal of the union is to provide jobs to people, be it preload, driving or local sort. The less hrs that a driver puts on road is equivalent to the number of jobs that gets offered to other people. Maybe not a 1 to 1 ratio, but that is aside from the point. Let's say CV has 10 drivers that are at 11 hrs everyday of the week. If you take 1.5 hrs off each driver every day, that's 10.5 hrs or another rte. Gettin the picture? We actually have 17FT rtes.

2nd- Looking at this from a home perspective (which I KNOW you understand)

I personally want to spend time at home and each one of us has to determine, individually what price we are willing to pay for that time at home. What amount of money do we need to make to meet the bills, etc. What needs need to be met at home versus what needs need to be met at work.

3rd- Seniority (oddly enough this plays a bigger part than one might think)

Being a little lower on the seniority totem pole, but not low enough to get layed off, I have little worry or concern about such. The higher up the pole the less worry. This is not to say that I (or anyone else) don't worry about this, I'm just saying that it is less of a factor in my decisions. We don't have kids at home, we don't have alot of bills to pay. I truly believe that the higher up the more lacsidaisical (? spelling) and (not trying to be condescending) drivers are about our jobs. Maybe 'untouchable' is a good word to use.


Not sure if this is helping to give you a different perspective and I'm not trying to discount your thoughts. I believe that both sides are valid.
 

ETA

Member
Lifer I find it laughable u have so much wisdom to b a retired driver, how many geritols would it take to keep u up and running strong for a couple of easy 11hr days
 

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
Lifer I find it laughable u have so much wisdom to b a retired driver, how many geritols would it take to keep u up and running strong for a couple of easy 11hr days
I know the man and I find it safe to say that he can still keep up with the best of us. I find it laughable that you judge without knowing what you are talking about!
 

browniehound

Well-Known Member
We are probably one of the few blue-collar company that actually forces overtime. I don't know what pencil-pushers are making the decisions, but we can not be losing that much more money putting in an extra route.


1 year progression driver $18.45 x 8hrs = 147.60

Full progression driver $28.49 x 8hrs = 227.92

Full progression overtime $42.73 x 8hrs = 341.84

How many of us have seen newer drivers sent home everyday? There is no way in hell it costs UPS that much difference to do it. You would think UPS would setup a system where we would be begging for overtime and extra stops, not the other way around. Worse case scenario, you get drivers back to the building early for the hubs. I do understand drivers with late pickups would have to be given extra work to fill 9hrs, but they still overload drivers with little to no pickups.

I am sure if it was the other way around, I could make an argument that they should just leave the work on the regular routes and let us work over 8 hours. Just a rant.

Hey Heff,
Another peculiar thing about the management team is they don't care about wage progression. Their numbers are based on the SPHOR, under 8.s over 9.5, and over 10's for the center. That's what matters to their superiors.

Unless I'm mistaken or I'm terribly wrong (I very well could be) the center team doesn't care about the profit of the company. If they did, they would have all drivers not making top-rate sent to keep the drivers at full-rate under 10 hours. Instead its a game to keep as many drivers under 9.5 no matter what their hourly wage.

If it were my business I work the $15 hour drivers 60 hours and the $29 hour drivers 40. This is not the case at UPS.
 

UnconTROLLed

perfection
Hey Heff,
Another peculiar thing about the management team is they don't care about wage progression. Their numbers are based on the SPHOR, under 8.s over 9.5, and over 10's for the center. That's what matters to their superiors.

Unless I'm mistaken or I'm terribly wrong (I very well could be) the center team doesn't care about the profit of the company. If they did, they would have all drivers not making top-rate sent to keep the drivers at full-rate under 10 hours. Instead its a game to keep as many drivers under 9.5 no matter what their hourly wage.

If it were my business I work the $15 hour drivers 60 hours and the $29 hour drivers 40. This is not the case at UPS.

UPS makes cents without making sense.:devil3:
 
Top