No Raises

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
Its always been about power and the needs of the union. The members have always been the bargaining chips that are used to feed the unions needs.

.
I have to agree. I am not a union cheerleader by any streatch of the imagination. I am thanful for the bennies and the pay I hope to receive oneday.

That said, the union is not there for me (part timers).They are there for themselves. An example. Our preload operation has moved us loaders to a 4:50 start time. We are all sent home by 8:00am maybe 8:15 tops. Some loaders are being sent home by 7:45. Unfortunatly for them, they do not know one thing about the union or the contract. Should they know? Should they be aware? Perhaps, but certainly the union should be there to educate us loaders of our rights. I have been at UPS going on 1 1/2 years. never have I seen the union come in and meet or even introduce themselves to us. When I was driving, I saw them several times a week. Do the drivers pay more dues.....heck yea. But the union still takes a LARGE chunk of our pay check. There is now talk to start the primary at 5am and the loaders 20 miutes later. We will be lucky to get 2 1/2 hours of work. Being that I do not support my family on my part time salary and that I prefer to get done in 10 minutes let alone 3.5 hours. So no reason for me to file. Bt I do feel bad for the other loaders.

There is no excuse for why the union allows the contract to be broken, just because the employees are not educated in regards to the union.
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
I have to agree. I am not a union cheerleader by any streatch of the imagination. I am thanful for the bennies and the pay I hope to receive oneday.

That said, the union is not there for me (part timers).They are there for themselves. An example. Our preload operation has moved us loaders to a 4:50 start time. We are all sent home by 8:00am maybe 8:15 tops. Some loaders are being sent home by 7:45. Unfortunatly for them, they do not know one thing about the union or the contract. Should they know? Should they be aware? Perhaps, but certainly the union should be there to educate us loaders of our rights. I have been at UPS going on 1 1/2 years. never have I seen the union come in and meet or even introduce themselves to us. When I was driving, I saw them several times a week. Do the drivers pay more dues.....heck yea. But the union still takes a LARGE chunk of our pay check. There is now talk to start the primary at 5am and the loaders 20 miutes later. We will be lucky to get 2 1/2 hours of work. Being that I do not support my family on my part time salary and that I prefer to get done in 10 minutes let alone 3.5 hours. So no reason for me to file. Bt I do feel bad for the other loaders.

There is no excuse for why the union allows the contract to be broken, just because the employees are not educated in regards to the union.[/quote]
How is the union to know there is a problem or contract violation if you do not file?

Your stewards should walk around and introduce themselves to you. As a steward i am a rep of the union and of my agent. The reason we stewards are there is to handle problems, when we can not handle the problems we hand them over to the agents.

Imagine how much in dues we would be paying if the agent had to take care of all the problems! My agent is in my building two times weekly, and several of us sweep in early and stay late when needed.
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
You are now going to get the stock at a 5% discount of the closing day of the quarters price. So say the stock closes at 60 that day, take your 5%, you have now purchased the stock at $57 a share. But three's week before the stock was at $52 a share. Typically a stock rises at the end of a quarter, not always but typically. Now who bought their stock cheaper?
First, I did overlook the end of quarter part. But, I still think its a good deal IF you intend on buying the stock. Not sure about your theory...I will have to look into that.......if it is true, then we should all be very rich just by buying stocks at the begining of quartes and sell on the last day!!:greedy:
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
I have to agree. I am not a union cheerleader by any streatch of the imagination. I am thanful for the bennies and the pay I hope to receive oneday.

That said, the union is not there for me (part timers).They are there for themselves. An example. Our preload operation has moved us loaders to a 4:50 start time. We are all sent home by 8:00am maybe 8:15 tops. Some loaders are being sent home by 7:45. Unfortunatly for them, they do not know one thing about the union or the contract. Should they know? Should they be aware? Perhaps, but certainly the union should be there to educate us loaders of our rights. I have been at UPS going on 1 1/2 years. never have I seen the union come in and meet or even introduce themselves to us. When I was driving, I saw them several times a week. Do the drivers pay more dues.....heck yea. But the union still takes a LARGE chunk of our pay check. There is now talk to start the primary at 5am and the loaders 20 miutes later. We will be lucky to get 2 1/2 hours of work. Being that I do not support my family on my part time salary and that I prefer to get done in 10 minutes let alone 3.5 hours. So no reason for me to file. Bt I do feel bad for the other loaders.

There is no excuse for why the union allows the contract to be broken, just because the employees are not educated in regards to the union.[/quote]
How is the union to know there is a problem or contract violation if you do not file?

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EASY.....walk down any belts in my building on any given day. ALL supes moving, loading and sorting packages. EVERYDAY. I am not saying the agents should be walking around everyday. But atleast once in a blue moon. I have seen the Steward several times when people are getting the "talk". Imagine a sup loading trucks right infront of him. And also you say "how is the union to know"?....I ask, how are the members suppose to know when no one takes the time to explain. The truth of the matter is this....the union does not care about part timers. look at the pay that we start with. Same as it was 20 years ago. If a part timer quits because they aren't getting the 3.5 hours....the union doesn't care because a knew part timer will come to replace the part timer and pay the 200+ initiation fee. Kind of works in the unions favor huh?
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
EASY.....walk down any belts in my building on any given day. ALL supes moving, loading and sorting packages. EVERYDAY. I am not saying the agents should be walking around everyday. But atleast once in a blue moon. I have seen the Steward several times when people are getting the "talk". Imagine a sup loading trucks right infront of him. And also you say "how is the union to know"?....I ask, how are the members suppose to know when no one takes the time to explain. The truth of the matter is this....the union does not care about part timers. look at the pay that we start with. Same as it was 20 years ago. If a part timer quits because they aren't getting the 3.5 hours....the union doesn't care because a knew part timer will come to replace the part timer and pay the 200+ initiation fee. Kind of works in the unions favor huh?
First of all here an initiation fee is only $50 for a ptimer. Sounds like you need to vote the steward out and elect another steward. I never walk past a sup working without confronting them.

Have you ever filed on a sup for working? Have you ever called the union and left a message explaining what you are seeing? I am not jumping on you, but you are smart enough to know that you are guaranteed 3.5 hours. You know that for every minute that sup works you are entitled to double time pay. How do you know? Because you have been educated on the cafe about these issues,

It has been the same starting pay since 97, going on 12 years not that its right by any means. Up to 82 everyone made the same money. In 97 the last great leader the ibt had was successful in raising the starting pay for ptimers for the first time in 15 years. Ups in the same token could care less, here we attempted to raise the ptime pay rate, but ups would not agree to it. We have huge turnover problems.

Remember the union is like a chain, its only as strong as its weakest link. Its not right to complain about the union not protecting you when you have not notified the union of the problems. Sups work by me, and when im in the building they call me out over the radio. When your agent is in the building i can almost assure you the same is being done.
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
First of all here an initiation fee is only $50 for a ptimer. Sounds like you need to vote the steward out and elect another steward. I never walk past a sup working without confronting them.

Have you ever filed on a sup for working? Have you ever called the union and left a message explaining what you are seeing? I am not jumping on you, but you are smart enough to know that you are guaranteed 3.5 hours. You know that for every minute that sup works you are entitled to double time pay. How do you know? Because you have been educated on the cafe about these issues,

It has been the same starting pay since 97, going on 12 years not that its right by any means. Up to 82 everyone made the same money. In 97 the last great leader the ibt had was successful in raising the starting pay for ptimers for the first time in 15 years. Ups in the same token could care less, here we attempted to raise the ptime pay rate, but ups would not agree to it. We have huge turnover problems.

Remember the union is like a chain, its only as strong as its weakest link. Its not right to complain about the union not protecting you when you have not notified the union of the problems. Sups work by me, and when im in the building they call me out over the radio. When your agent is in the building i can almost assure you the same is being done.
RED, I do respect you. Your coworkers are VERY lucky to have you on their side.

Initiation here 220.00. Thats a lot for someone making 8.50 an hour. I

If I had a problem with being sent home early, I would probably file. Being that I do not care to stay any longer then I have to, no reason to put a mark on my head. Yes a mark. I have heard to many horror stories about people who have filed, but then they are a target. I know, can't be fired with out just cause, but they can certainly make life tougher for a part timer. Move them from belt to belt....and other tactics. I am not a steward. I have given a lot of my coworkers advice and also have sent them here. Being that I am also self employeed and have been around the block, I did educate myself on the union. I certainly have used BC.

Quick question.......as you may know I also drive Saturday air. The last few weeks I haven't been getting the full amount of time paid for at air rate. Start at 8:15 and I am done by 12:15. 4 hours.....but i only have been getting paid for 3.5. Looking inot my pay check a little further I see that they put the first .5 hour at my preload rate. ......thus saving the company a wopping .50!! Is this how they do Sat air. We do load our trucks for that first half hour......
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
one last question....I think I know the answer. about 3 weeks ago I was sent a message to pick up 35 packages from a store. I went to the store and picked up the 35 "ground" packages. I did not get paid cover pay. I got my typical saturday air rate. Shouldn't I of gotten the ground pay?

found it ....40 1 of the contract. YES, I should of gotten paid top rate
 
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Join the teamsters?? LOL!!! I am happy where I am. Sure, my salary is frozen, but i still dont pay union dues every week. In my 8 years, the only thing that I have seen the union do is keep a job for people that surely do not deserve it. And who gets laid off first....management or union hourly?? Well I still have my job after laying off 30 union employees last year, and already 5 this year.....GO UNION!!!! We all know that labor unions were created to prevent the company from taking advantage of its employees, but now all the union does is take advantage of the company....
 
S

speeddemon

Guest
This is going to make organizing you all a cake walk! Join the teamsters were there is strength in numbers and every move the company does must be approved by you!

Your not very intelligent are you?
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
In my 8 years, the only thing that I have seen the union do is keep a job for people that surely do not deserve it. And who gets laid off first....management or union hourly?? Well I still have my job after laying off 30 union employees last year, and already 5 this year.....GO UNION!!!! We all know that labor unions were created to prevent the company from taking advantage of its employees, but now all the union does is take advantage of the company....
Allthough we are impressed with your power of laying people off, I do need to ask, of the 35 people you have layed off, how many were with the company for the 8 years you have been with UPS?
I hardly think any. And of those union employees that have been with UPS for 8 years, how many of them had a pay freeze or pension freez??
You sound as childish as 1/2 the people I work with..........some who are not in the union, some that are.................
 

tieguy

Banned
You want to gain business! How? Every lead we take the time to turn in goes unsold! The drivers have done their best to gain the business, maybe get the bd reps out of the starbucks and on to the customers property!

We can always argue about what the company could do better. Sales leads can be entered on your own personal upsers.com web page where you can track the acitivity on each account. Your position is overstated. The truth is the company does work the sales leads but does not work them enough. The truth is the drivers have not done their best to gain business because many are afraid the sales lead will generate more work for them.

Lets try to stay in the truth zone and away from the bullshcit.
 

tieguy

Banned
I have to agree. I am not a union cheerleader by any streatch of the imagination. I am thanful for the bennies and the pay I hope to receive oneday.

That said, the union is not there for me (part timers).They are there for themselves. An example. Our preload operation has moved us loaders to a 4:50 start time. We are all sent home by 8:00am maybe 8:15 tops. Some loaders are being sent home by 7:45. Unfortunatly for them, they do not know one thing about the union or the contract. Should they know? Should they be aware? Perhaps, but certainly the union should be there to educate us loaders of our rights. I have been at UPS going on 1 1/2 years. never have I seen the union come in and meet or even introduce themselves to us. When I was driving, I saw them several times a week. Do the drivers pay more dues.....heck yea. But the union still takes a LARGE chunk of our pay check. There is now talk to start the primary at 5am and the loaders 20 miutes later. We will be lucky to get 2 1/2 hours of work. Being that I do not support my family on my part time salary and that I prefer to get done in 10 minutes let alone 3.5 hours. So no reason for me to file. Bt I do feel bad for the other loaders.

There is no excuse for why the union allows the contract to be broken, just because the employees are not educated in regards to the union.[/quote]
How is the union to know there is a problem or contract violation if you do not file?

Your stewards should walk around and introduce themselves to you. As a steward i am a rep of the union and of my agent. The reason we stewards are there is to handle problems, when we can not handle the problems we hand them over to the agents.

Imagine how much in dues we would be paying if the agent had to take care of all the problems! My agent is in my building two times weekly, and several of us sweep in early and stay late when needed.

chester looks like you got the typical cheerleader response.:happy-very:
 

tieguy

Banned
First of all here an initiation fee is only $50 for a ptimer. Sounds like you need to vote the steward out and elect another steward. I never walk past a sup working without confronting them.

Have you ever filed on a sup for working? Have you ever called the union and left a message explaining what you are seeing? I am not jumping on you, but you are smart enough to know that you are guaranteed 3.5 hours. You know that for every minute that sup works you are entitled to double time pay. How do you know? Because you have been educated on the cafe about these issues,

kind of interesting how these issues are always dumped back into the complaining members lap as his fault for not confronting the sup. The person complaining pays for the stewards and agents to address these issues yet when he raises them he is blamed for not doing the steward and BA's job.

It has been the same starting pay since 97, going on 12 years not that its right by any means. Up to 82 everyone made the same money. In 97 the last great leader the ibt had was successful in raising the starting pay for ptimers for the first time in 15 years. Ups in the same token could care less, here we attempted to raise the ptime pay rate, but ups would not agree to it. We have huge turnover problems.

If your union exhibited true soladarity and belonged to the national you might understand this issue a little better. UPS offers an overall number of what they feel they can afford over the life of a contract. The union may disagree. At some point both sides agree to a gross amount that represents the total pie or the total compensation package. At that point the union tells the company how they want to slice that pie. So yes I agree both sides have a share of the responsibility but at the same time if the union said they wanted more of the overall pie invested into the part timer and less into raising the full time scale then the company would do so as long as cost stayed within the agreed to parameters.

Remember the union is like a chain, its only as strong as its weakest link. Its not right to complain about the union not protecting you when you have not notified the union of the problems. Sups work by me, and when im in the building they call me out over the radio. When your agent is in the building i can almost assure you the same is being done.

the union is not part of the chain. The union is every bit the big business that ups is. The unions strength in negotiating lies on the chain willingly supporting the unions agenda. The interest of the members does not alway equal the interests of the union. When that happens the unions interest take precedence. A classic example would be a 401K match. The company could offer to take all the money they currently invest into teamster pension plans into your individual 401K plans. This would be a terrific option for the members. The union will never agree to such an offer since they would no longer control the money. The union needs to remain a viable business. part of staying in business requires the union demonstrates a need for thier services. by them handing their retired members a check and sublimly stating look what we did for you they end up demonstrating that need. Were the members to recieve their pension distributions into thier 401ks they might feel they really don't need the unions help.
 

tieguy

Banned
Overall, a pretty good post Tie. However I see the check card somewhat in a different light. The harm I see in the it is that the company being organized also know how is or is not supporting the union. This could bring about scrutiny and intimidation from the company's side as well.

Trp the problem I see with that argument is that the company harrassing against joining would be a clear violation of NLRB law. Thus subjecting UPS to NLRB charges.

It has never been against the law for the union to coerce or harass non union employees into joining. This law would cost individuals the right to privately vote on bills affecting them.
 
Trp the problem I see with that argument is that the company harrassing against joining would be a clear violation of NLRB law. Thus subjecting UPS to NLRB charges.

It has never been against the law for the union to coerce or harass non union employees into joining. This law would cost individuals the right to privately vote on bills affecting them.

I understand what your saying about the NLRB, but you know as well as I do that the company has almost perfected the art of harassment to the point it is very hard to prove. Although it might not make that large of an impact anyway. I have never been in favor of any secret ballot being changed to open ballot. To me all voting should be held confidential. I suppose that union harassment could happen in some parts of the country, but that dawg wouldn't hunt around here.
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
Tie,
Do you know anything about the "Re-Empowerment of Skilled and Professional Employees and Construction Trades-workers" act? AKA "Respect act"

I mentioned this act a few days ago and posters thought I was crazy when I spoke about UPS starting to do a offensive play by talking with, at the least, part time sups. From what I have gathered this act would essentially allow any management, who spends less the 50% of their time hiring, firing, disciplining, and promoting, to join a bargaining unit. Do you have any insight?
Thanks
 

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
Trp the problem I see with that argument is that the company harrassing against joining would be a clear violation of NLRB law. Thus subjecting UPS to NLRB charges.

It has never been against the law for the union to coerce or harass non union employees into joining. This law would cost individuals the right to privately vote on bills affecting them.
The only reason I see this not happening is simple. (in our situation at UPS) Our stewards are responsible for getting new memebers and I believe, for the most part, that stewards have better ethics than this. Many of us rarely (or never) see our BA's and Local Presidents. The one and only time that I have seen any of the upper echelon of my local at our ctr was the summer that I started working at UPS. That was in 05.
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
RED, I do respect you. Your coworkers are VERY lucky to have you on their side.

Initiation here 220.00. Thats a lot for someone making 8.50 an hour. I

That is way too high of an initiation to expect somoeone making $8.50 an hour to make. Our fulltimers only pay $100 initiation.

If I had a problem with being sent home early, I would probably file. Being that I do not care to stay any longer then I have to, no reason to put a mark on my head. Yes a mark. I have heard to many horror stories about people who have filed, but then they are a target. I know, can't be fired with out just cause, but they can certainly make life tougher for a part timer. Move them from belt to belt....and other tactics. I am not a steward. I have given a lot of my coworkers advice and also have sent them here. Being that I am also self employeed and have been around the block, I did educate myself on the union. I certainly have used BC.

Management will push you around unitl you stand up for yourself. Dont get in to battles over everything, but pick and choose them.

Quick question.......as you may know I also drive Saturday air. The last few weeks I haven't been getting the full amount of time paid for at air rate. Start at 8:15 and I am done by 12:15. 4 hours.....but i only have been getting paid for 3.5. Looking inot my pay check a little further I see that they put the first .5 hour at my preload rate. ......thus saving the company a wopping .50!! Is this how they do Sat air. We do load our trucks for that first half hour......
Absolutely not, you should be getting paid your air driving rate, depending on what your contract might say. I would tell a GOOD steward about this.
Ups has two options pay you your air driving rate for all hours worked, or if your contract does allow it, run a preload operation allowing all preloaders the right to bid for that extra work. Which they will not do because you as an air driver are getting straight time while the preloaders would get overtime.
 

Eby1

Member
First of all here an initiation fee is only $50 for a ptimer. Sounds like you need to vote the steward out and elect another steward. I never walk past a sup working without confronting them.

Have you ever filed on a sup for working? Have you ever called the union and left a message explaining what you are seeing? I am not jumping on you, but you are smart enough to know that you are guaranteed 3.5 hours. You know that for every minute that sup works you are entitled to double time pay. How do you know? Because you have been educated on the cafe about these issues,

It has been the same starting pay since 97, going on 12 years not that its right by any means. Up to 82 everyone made the same money. In 97 the last great leader the ibt had was successful in raising the starting pay for ptimers for the first time in 15 years. Ups in the same token could care less, here we attempted to raise the ptime pay rate, but ups would not agree to it. We have huge turnover problems.

Remember the union is like a chain, its only as strong as its weakest link. Its not right to complain about the union not protecting you when you have not notified the union of the problems. Sups work by me, and when im in the building they call me out over the radio. When your agent is in the building i can almost assure you the same is being done.

I thought the option was offered to the part timers to opt into a contract where they decided to have the pay upfront vs the beneifits they receive? I also thought that some of their compensation went into retirments? Not all pt's are in need of the 100% coverage offered or plan on staying with UPS. This would have put a lot more $$ in their pockets vs paying into something they will not see or use.
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
Join the teamsters?? LOL!!! I am happy where I am. Sure, my salary is frozen, but i still dont pay union dues every week. In my 8 years, the only thing that I have seen the union do is keep a job for people that surely do not deserve it. And who gets laid off first....management or union hourly?? Well I still have my job after laying off 30 union employees last year, and already 5 this year.....GO UNION!!!! We all know that labor unions were created to prevent the company from taking advantage of its employees, but now all the union does is take advantage of the company....
What do you pay monthly for your benefit package? The same one that we receive at no cost to us!

I would not want someone like you to be in the same union as myself! You display the typical me me me attitude. Trust me with your vast experience (8year) (sarcasm) I'm sure you will be around and weather this financial storm that we are in untouched. Yeah right.
 
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