No Raises

browniehound

Well-Known Member
We can always argue about what the company could do better. Sales leads can be entered on your own personal upsers.com web page where you can track the acitivity on each account. Your position is overstated. The truth is the company does work the sales leads but does not work them enough. The truth is the drivers have not done their best to gain business because many are afraid the sales lead will generate more work for them.

Lets try to stay in the truth zone and away from the bullshcit.

In the past my opinion was pickups are better than deliveries. I would rather spend my time picking up parcels than delivering them. For this reason I always seek out pickup volume.

I had a route about 1-2 years ago that had 23 PUs. With my deliveries I was always around 9.1-9.3. I put a sales lead in for a new shipper. Well this customer ships 50-80 grounds! That would be OK but at least 5 of them are over 70 lbs. and at least 2.5 feet in diameter!

It makes the route over 9.5 now, but I guess the volume gain makes up for it? No help is sent to keep me under 9.5.

I want to grow the businesss. I just don't want it to happen on my route so I'm over 9.5. This is a legitimate gripe I believe. I don't want to work more than 9 hours. I don't want more than 9 any day but its the nature of the business that I'm willings to accept.

I thought it was wonderful to gain the pick-up. Problem is UPS didn't take any house calls off of me. I know have to work over 9.5 everyday. I don't want over 9.5 and I work it due to 1 sales lead. What do I do now? Enter another one so I'm over 10 everyday???

Sorry, but I'm done.
 

1989

Well-Known Member
I just took your post as a challenge, and i do like challenges. I will file and lets see the outcome. Were are you located? Maybe we can place a wager. Food specificto your area, i can sned you a chicago deep dish or even hot dogs sonething along those lines.


Red, that was the contract you signed when you signed up for the employee stock discount program...Not a benefit negotiated and provided by the union.
 

1989

Well-Known Member
What do you pay monthly for your benefit package? The same one that we receive at no cost to us!

I would not want someone like you to be in the same union as myself! You display the typical me me me attitude. Trust me with your vast experience (8year) (sarcasm) I'm sure you will be around and weather this financial storm that we are in untouched. Yeah right.


I pay $72 a month for my benefits.
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
I pay $72 a month for my benefits.
You pay $72 a month for your benefits, pension, hourly wages, vacations, optional days, sick days etc. Sups pay for their medical and have to kiss ass to get what you get for paying dues. Your great management material, ever think of applying?
 

1989

Well-Known Member
You pay $72 a month for your benefits, pension, hourly wages, vacations, optional days, sick days etc. Sups pay for their medical and have to kiss ass to get what you get for paying dues. Your great management material, ever think of applying?


In 1995 I got an extra $22 back for my benes every month. That included my salary, medical, dental, vacations, optional days (I got one less week of vaca. and one optional day a month.)
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
I just took your post as a challenge, and i do like challenges. I will file and lets see the outcome. Were are you located? Maybe we can place a wager. Food specificto your area, i can sned you a chicago deep dish or even hot dogs sonething along those lines.


Red,

Sounds good to me. I LOVE Chicago hot dogs. Its been too long since I was there.

Best of luck on your challenge. It would be good if you won.

P-Man
 

33in2togo

Active Member
Red- I personally encourage the person that submitted the lead to join me on the sales call. It accomplishes many positive results. It puts the customer at ease and it eliminates the center team of determining what can and can not be done with pick up and delivery times. No one knows better then the route driver. Price will always be important especially in tough times. I believe that our professionalism, service reliability and driver relationship can move the emphasis away from a price war. What good is price if you can not deliver on what we promise.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
Brwon i see were you are coming from. 12 years ago i was not even a steward yet, and a little ptimer who just cared about coming to work at ups going to my ftime job and somehow making time to see my girl who is now my wife.

The point here is the stock plan is a benefit, and this benefit has been changed without consulting the union and the members.

Now what happens if the economy turns around within the next few months or even years, if this goes ungrieved the members might never be able to get the 10% benefit back.

I see what you are saying, i sure hope you see what i am saying.

I do see what you are saying, but you may be missing something here. Lets say the matter is grieved, and the company looses. So now, the stock benefit will have to be put back in place for bargaining unit employees. So the company will have to jump through hoops to get the new practice (ie reduced discount) in place, taking a much longer time and costing the company lots of money. But eventually, it could be done. So, say in several months, or years, the economy comes back. The company decides to offer the 10% match back to non-bargaining unit employees. Because, based on this experience, would it not be really, really stupid of the company to put it back into practice for the bargaining unit?
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
From the DESPP prospectus:

"Our board of directors originally adopted the United Parcel Service, Inc. Discounted Employee
Stock Purchase Plan in 2001. The plan was approved by our shareowners on May 17, 2001. The plan
was amended and restated effective October 1, 2002 and most recently was amended by the board on
June 3, 2005. The plan will continue indefinitely, subject to our right to terminate it at any time."

Sorry, but I think this makes your point moot.

P-Man


I would think that this clearly defines the issue. 5%, while not as good as 10%, is certainly better than 0%. A grievance on this issue would simply be a waste of time and resources which would be better served ensuring that our layed off co-workers' rights are being addressed.
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
I do see what you are saying, but you may be missing something here. Lets say the matter is grieved, and the company looses. So now, the stock benefit will have to be put back in place for bargaining unit employees. So the company will have to jump through hoops to get the new practice (ie reduced discount) in place, taking a much longer time and costing the company lots of money. But eventually, it could be done. So, say in several months, or years, the economy comes back. The company decides to offer the 10% match back to non-bargaining unit employees. Because, based on this experience, would it not be really, really stupid of the company to put it back into practice for the bargaining unit?
I understand the times we are going through right now, but there is no guarantee that we the union members would be offered the 10% discount ever again. We are talking about ups and we have seen many many stupid things that ups has done, so why not get something in righting protecting thie benefit.
 

smokey

Active Member
to pretzel man

is managments retirement pension subject to termination at any time too? 80% of salary gone at any time?????
 

swtechie

New Member
God Help us all. At least GW is back in the house...we are so blessed...this Eco needs to move for everyone's sake or we are all in toruble..Hourly and mgmt..
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
to pretzel man

is managments retirement pension subject to termination at any time too? 80% of salary gone at any time?????

I don't know the laws regarding pension plans. I assume UPS can change the pension plan if needed. I don't know if they can terminate it.

I assume UPS can alter other things for management too:
They can:
- cut my pay
- eliminate my vacation
- eliminate MIP
- eliminate health care
- etc.

However...

The current economic conditions are unprecidented. We are in the midst of what will be the longest recession since the great depression.

UPS left the pension as well as the above alone.

BTW, I see the elimination of a pension as something much different than changing the 10% stock discount. Don't you?

P-Man
 

smokey

Active Member
@ p man

thanks for the quick reply..

i am aware of the possibilities UPS may take, in the event the economy continues to spriral downward. half month, mip, pay cut etc etc.

thought you might be able to shed some color on UPS position regarding mgt pension.

anyways not to toot your horn, but i am fairly new to this sight and have had a chance to read serveral of your post. you seem to be fair and honest....

i wouldnt mine working for you. what district do you work for??? j/k
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
@ p man

thanks for the quick reply..

i am aware of the possibilities UPS may take, in the event the economy continues to spriral downward. half month, mip, pay cut etc etc.

thought you might be able to shed some color on UPS position regarding mgt pension.

anyways not to toot your horn, but i am fairly new to this sight and have had a chance to read serveral of your post. you seem to be fair and honest....

i wouldnt mine working for you. what district do you work for??? j/k

Hi Smokey,

You made me curious, so I checked the government rules on pensions (at least single employer defined benefit pensions which is what UPS management has).

Here is some information:

Plan Termination

Pension plan terminations may be standard, distress, or involuntary in nature. The Single Employer Pension Plan Act of 1986 provides extensive detail regarding the conditions of each, not relevant here. What is relevant is that all terminations must be reviewed by the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation (PBGC) (see below).
When plans are terminated by employers, benefit accrual ceases. With defined contribution plans, the employer may cease contributions and pass fund management responsibilities to an insurance company. With defined benefits plans, the options are more complex, as well as controversial if fund assets do not at least equal the present value of promised benefits. However, if fund assets exceed pension liabilities, the excess assets may legally be reverted back to the company, although that practice has been severely hampered by the Pension Protection Act of 1990. (As of 2002, companies must pay a 50 percent EXCISE tax on any surplus funds pulled out of pension plans.)
====

The UPS management pension is fully funded. I read this as they cannot eliminate what is already there, but they can stop contributing if they chose.

P-Man
 

smokey

Active Member
hmmm, so in 15 years if UPS decides not to contribute and fund the pension. i would have 18 years with the company and no pension (or some varation of a pension).

i would love to continue working for the company, knowing that 80% is a concrete number.
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
Hi Smokey,

You made me curious, so I checked the government rules on pensions (at least single employer defined benefit pensions which is what UPS management has).

Here is some information:

Plan Termination

Pension plan terminations may be standard, distress, or involuntary in nature. The Single Employer Pension Plan Act of 1986 provides extensive detail regarding the conditions of each, not relevant here. What is relevant is that all terminations must be reviewed by the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation (PBGC) (see below).
When plans are terminated by employers, benefit accrual ceases. With defined contribution plans, the employer may cease contributions and pass fund management responsibilities to an insurance company. With defined benefits plans, the options are more complex, as well as controversial if fund assets do not at least equal the present value of promised benefits. However, if fund assets exceed pension liabilities, the excess assets may legally be reverted back to the company, although that practice has been severely hampered by the Pension Protection Act of 1990. (As of 2002, companies must pay a 50 percent EXCISE tax on any surplus funds pulled out of pension plans.)
====

The UPS management pension is fully funded. I read this as they cannot eliminate what is already there, but they can stop contributing if they chose.

P-Man
Pman how do you know the fund is fully funded? Because here my ptime years are held by ups and the only info they give me is what i have coming.
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
p man

how many more years do you have left??? 4 or 5?

hmmm, so in 15 years if UPS decides not to contribute and fund the pension. i would have 18 years with the company and no pension (or some varation of a pension).

i would love to continue working for the company, knowing that 80% is a concrete number.

Smokey,

I have 33 in and can retire in 2 years if I like. I like my job so I will probably stay longer. (besides, with the drop in stock price, I can use the extras money by staying longer).

While there are no guarantees, I do not think UPS would be messing with pensions. They changed the plan a couple of times over the years, and nothing was bad. The most recent change gave the younger people a defined contribution plan instead of defined benefit plan.

Also, the way I read the pension laws, they can only stop contributing. They cannot take away what is already earned.

If in these very bad financial times, they didn't take away pension I don't see them doing so unless things got much, much worse.

Also remember, even a defined contribution plan is invested in something. As the financial markets are depressed, defined contribution pensions must be impacted...

Best of luck,

P-Man
 
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