No Raises

705red

Browncafe Steward
Your not very intelligent are you?
Were you talking to yourself? In my opinion it would not be that hard to organize the sups at ups. How many of them hate their current jobs?

How many of them are sick and tired of working long hours for their small salary?

Coming in early staying late? Many do not want to have to work that is why they went in to management!

A cake walk I'm telling you!

Now maybe you can add a little intelligence?
 

Eby1

Member
You want to gain business! How? Every lead we take the time to turn in goes unsold! The drivers have done their best to gain the business, maybe get the bd reps out of the starbucks and on to the customers property!

That's a bit over generalizing on the leads...and Starbucks. I think it may be a product of being paid on commissions that has contributed to the efforts on these. I can say that many, not all, of the leads turned in are somewhat crap. Some of them are turned in on volume that can not be awarded or decided locally and require gaining approval in other locations. Contract that are already in place and not up for 1-2 years. Yes, the leads are important and the BD function must do a better job to gain the business but it is not always as easy as saying there is NDA letters at "X" address, go get it!
Also, when I see my local driver taking a nap in a quite and secluded area as well as him taking lunch and both breaks, am I to generalize that he doesn't work or that All drivers take time??? Don't need to answer this. I am Driver supporter. I know the job, I've done the job there is good and bad on both sides of this conversation...
Good post though!
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
We can always argue about what the company could do better. Sales leads can be entered on your own personal upsers.com web page where you can track the acitivity on each account. Your position is overstated. The truth is the company does work the sales leads but does not work them enough. The truth is the drivers have not done their best to gain business because many are afraid the sales lead will generate more work for them.

Lets try to stay in the truth zone and away from the bullshcit.
You want to stay on truth lets do it! If a union employee would work as efficiently doing there jobs as the people that handle the sales leads, not one package would get delivered!!!!!

I do go and check on my sales leads only to see that they have been closed! That is news to me and the customers that are waiting to ship their packages with me!

Your turn! Remember only the truth spin master!
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
chester looks like you got the typical cheerleader response.:happy-very:
King take the posts from tie and myself as what it is worth. Sups like tie hope you and your co workers never get involved. There are a lot more sups than stewards and agents, so if the members stay uninvolved they can basically run free. Now if they know that a preloader on their dock will file for them working, you will not see them working. But if they do not get grievance on it they will work and in doing so that is money coming out of your pocket.

With the slowing of business right now, you will see rivers going back in to the ptime ranks bumping ptimers. I can assure you that when these ftimers see a sup working they will be filing because they will not allow a sup to work when you are sitting at home because you have just been bumped.

Why let it happen, this is a perfect time to start to try and keep yourself working. This is not going to be a pretty year, a lot of people will struggle.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
Your right it is a benefit! And while its not covered in the contract it is a past practice since late 1996 early 1997. It was not a gift from the company, the company pffered it up thinking that if we the union employee owned stock in ups we would not strike.

Any one that leaves their money in the new stock plan is nuts! It would be cheaper to be it directly!

That is all fine and well, but notice you did not answer my question of how changing the plan would qualify as a concession on the unions part?

And what language of the contract would you file your grievance under?

BTW, yes, in a way, it was a gift. In that it was offered with no strings attached, nothing asked for in return. Of course the company was hoping to gain something from it, but there was nothing in the program that required it.
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
That is all fine and well, but notice you did not answer my question of how changing the plan would qualify as a concession on the unions part?

And what language of the contract would you file your grievance under?

BTW, yes, in a way, it was a gift. In that it was offered with no strings attached, nothing asked for in return. Of course the company was hoping to gain something from it, but there was nothing in the program that required it.
Brown it has been a benefit for 12 years that the union and ups has knowledge of, resulting in a past practice. Past practices do not have to be spelled out in the contract as long as both sides are aware of it.

In our contract it says we will be paid weekly, it does not sat what day, so if you were paid on Wednesdays for 10 years and now ups wants to switch it to Fridays, this to could be a past practice grievance.


If i would file i would file under article 50 maintenance of standards.
Heres a link on past practice.
http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/past-practice/
 
That is all fine and well, but notice you did not answer my question of how changing the plan would qualify as a concession on the unions part?

And what language of the contract would you file your grievance under?

BTW, yes, in a way, it was a gift. In that it was offered with no strings attached, nothing asked for in return. Of course the company was hoping to gain something from it, but there was nothing in the program that required it.
Not entirely true. If you participated in the old, pre 401K, savings plan( I forget the name) you had no choice but to turn a % of that into UPS stock. The remainder could be taken out in cash - taxes on the company's contribution and the interest it gained.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
Brown it has been a benefit for 12 years that the union and ups has knowledge of, resulting in a past practice. Past practices do not have to be spelled out in the contract as long as both sides are aware of it.

In our contract it says we will be paid weekly, it does not sat what day, so if you were paid on Wednesdays for 10 years and now ups wants to switch it to Fridays, this to could be a past practice grievance.


If i would file i would file under article 50 maintenance of standards.
Heres a link on past practice.
http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/past-practice/

I don't suppose you filed a past practice grievance when they started the program did you?
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
Not entirely true. If you participated in the old, pre 401K, savings plan( I forget the name) you had no choice but to turn a % of that into UPS stock. The remainder could be taken out in cash - taxes on the company's contribution and the interest it gained.
Wasnt it called the thrift plan? I was not in this plan as i really needed the money more at the age of 20 and 21 and was not worried about investing at that age as i am now.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
Not entirely true. If you participated in the old, pre 401K, savings plan( I forget the name) you had no choice but to turn a % of that into UPS stock. The remainder could be taken out in cash - taxes on the company's contribution and the interest it gained.

I was specifically referring to the 10% DESPP...
 

tieguy

Banned
Tie,
Do you know anything about the "Re-Empowerment of Skilled and Professional Employees and Construction Trades-workers" act? AKA "Respect act"

I mentioned this act a few days ago and posters thought I was crazy when I spoke about UPS starting to do a offensive play by talking with, at the least, part time sups. From what I have gathered this act would essentially allow any management, who spends less the 50% of their time hiring, firing, disciplining, and promoting, to join a bargaining unit. Do you have any insight?
Thanks

I know there is concern about the part time sups organizing. I have not done my homework on the bills impact on them. Thanks for the heads up I'll look in to it some more.
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
I don't suppose you filed a past practice grievance when they started the program did you?
Brwon i see were you are coming from. 12 years ago i was not even a steward yet, and a little ptimer who just cared about coming to work at ups going to my ftime job and somehow making time to see my girl who is now my wife.

The point here is the stock plan is a benefit, and this benefit has been changed without consulting the union and the members.

Now what happens if the economy turns around within the next few months or even years, if this goes ungrieved the members might never be able to get the 10% benefit back.

I see what you are saying, i sure hope you see what i am saying.
 

tieguy

Banned
You want to stay on truth lets do it! If a union employee would work as efficiently doing there jobs as the people that handle the sales leads, not one package would get delivered!!!!!

I do go and check on my sales leads only to see that they have been closed! That is news to me and the customers that are waiting to ship their packages with me!

Your turn! Remember only the truth spin master!

I have nothing to change based on your statement. I have already made the point that ups is not doing all they could with sales leads and that drivers are not doing all they can with getting sales leads. This was a rebut of your previous statement and has not been rebutted in this exchange.

I will however give you something you with your charm can pursue. There is a BD office in your district where some people sit and work those sales leads. the people working them are not as customer savy as you are. Their job is to basically call the customer confirm the interest and schedule a rep out to the customer. The problem is businesses are very good at quickly dishing or deflecting anything percieved as a sales call. So when that person calls he will often get the brush off before he gets through.

My point is this. Submit the sales lead and track it. If your sales lead appears to be getting fumbled simply ask your center manager to call or voice mail the BD manager. There was a time when you would submit sales leads and never know how it was handled.Keep in mind the reason the slim program is in upsers.com. It logs the lead and allows you the opportunity to track the package. So you can track it and then raise some hell if its not handled correctly. It gives the process accountability it never had before.
 
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tieguy

Banned
King take the posts from tie and myself as what it is worth. Sups like tie hope you and your co workers never get involved. .

Red you're the shop steward. You're the management representative for the union. You're the guy I want to get the grievance from. I have 230 drivers in my feeder group. I do not need 230 "members getting involved" now all wanting to discuss grievances with me. You on the other hand want to make sure the grievances protect the interest of the union and the contract do not want 230 "members getting involved" now all doing their own thing. Thats my basic point. let the stewards do it.
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
Red you're the shop steward. You're the management representative for the union. You're the guy I want to get the grievance from. I have 230 drivers in my feeder group. I do not need 230 "members getting involved" now all wanting to discuss grievances with me. You on the other hand want to make sure the grievances protect the interest of the union and the contract do not want 230 "members getting involved" now all doing their own thing. Thats my basic point. let the stewards do it.
I do not want any of those 230 rivers going to you with a grievance! My point was as a steward i can not see every infraction that happens and the more members involved the less likely the infractions would happen.

I want the involved members coming to me or another steward, it doesn't even have to be written down. Our local has even come up with supervisor working forms that asks for all the information to expedite a grievance, however i will take the time to write down the info directly from a member. Ask anyone that knows me, they never see me walking around without my note pad just for occasions like this.
 

tieguy

Banned
Brwon i see were you are coming from. 12 years ago i was not even a steward yet, and a little ptimer who just cared about coming to work at ups going to my ftime job and somehow making time to see my girl who is now my wife.

The point here is the stock plan is a benefit, and this benefit has been changed without consulting the union and the members.

Now what happens if the economy turns around within the next few months or even years, if this goes ungrieved the members might never be able to get the 10% benefit back.

I see what you are saying, i sure hope you see what i am saying.

It was never negotiated contractually. The company has always had the right to provide compensation above that negotiated in the contract.
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
I have nothing to change based on your statement. I have already made the point that ups is not doing all they could with sales leads and that drivers are not doing all they can with getting sales leads. This was a rebut of your previous statement and has not been rebutted in this exchange.

I will however give you something you with your charm can pursue. There is a BD office in your district where some people sit and work those sales leads. the people working them are not as customer savy as you are. Their job is to basically call the customer confirm the interest and schedule a rep out to the customer. The problem is businesses are very good at quickly dishing or deflecting anything percieved as a sales call. So when that person calls he will often get the brush off before he gets through.

My point is this. Submit the sales lead and track it. If your sales lead appears to be getting fumbled simply ask your center manager to call or voice mail the BD manager. There was a time when you would submit sales leads and never know how it was handled.Keep in mind the reason the slim program is in upsers.com. It logs the lead and allows you the opportunity to track the package. So you can track it and then raise some hell if its not handled correctly. It gives the process accountability it never had before.
In the last quarter of last year i personally turned in between 13 and 15 sales leads, and only one was sold. I will email you the leads myself if you would like so you could see how bad the ball was dropped.

I am on a new route now, and I'm looking to help grow the business. However i will not turn in another lead! I have had my manager email the rep this last Monday, to contact me so we could walk in there together. This customer has a bad taste for ups from past experiences years ago and i do not need some schmuck from the 800 number screwing this up!

I want to be there so i can explain to the customer what i as their driver can offer them, the rep only needs to discuss the pricing. I will run the meeting and treat the customer right like i do everyday i make their delivery.

Still waiting to here from the rep, just imagine how much revenue we could have had this last week, if there was a sense of urgency?!
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
Tie i do not make the laws! Did you read the link i provided, it does not have to be negotiated if it is a practice that both parties acknowledge existence of.
http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/past-practice/

From the DESPP prospectus:

"Our board of directors originally adopted the United Parcel Service, Inc. Discounted Employee
Stock Purchase Plan in 2001. The plan was approved by our shareowners on May 17, 2001. The plan
was amended and restated effective October 1, 2002 and most recently was amended by the board on​
June 3, 2005. The plan will continue indefinitely, subject to our right to terminate it at any time."

Sorry, but I think this makes your point moot.

P-Man

 

705red

Browncafe Steward
From the DESPP prospectus:

"Our board of directors originally adopted the United Parcel Service, Inc. Discounted Employee
Stock Purchase Plan in 2001. The plan was approved by our shareowners on May 17, 2001. The plan
was amended and restated effective October 1, 2002 and most recently was amended by the board on
June 3, 2005. The plan will continue indefinitely, subject to our right to terminate it at any time."

Sorry, but I think this makes your point moot.

P-Man
I just took your post as a challenge, and i do like challenges. I will file and lets see the outcome. Were are you located? Maybe we can place a wager. Food specificto your area, i can sned you a chicago deep dish or even hot dogs sonething along those lines.
 
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