Obamas Preacher vs. Bushes Preacher??

[BrownShark]

Arrow up,

Your post is exactly why the Iraq war is going so wrong. You dont even have the first clue of who the enemy is or why they are fighting.

You are stuck on FOX Noise information and better yet, you believe that IRAN is the biggest problem in Iraq.

Lets start with this:

I don't have an "interpretation" of what a terrorist. I'm not a liberal that needs to change or distort the meaning of something in order to justify a warped belief. My beliefs on terrorism stem from a sense of right and wrong. When an individual or group of people set up IEDs, car bombs, kidnappings and/or beheadings they are terrorists. Plus, these terrorists are not wearing uniforms which violates the Geneva Convention.

First, why the need to place labels on a debate over facts?
(liberal,warped belief)

The question was to YOU, and your personal interpretation of who, what, why where, how are the terrorists.

Yes, your right, IEDs, snipers, car bombs, suicide bombers etc etc are out of control in iraq. But why? Why do you lend yourself to thinking about Iran, when the Saudi Sunni's are providing more money, weapons and fighters than iran could possibly send? According to the latest US military figures, SUNNI attacks on american forces make up 80% of the casualties..

Doesnt that show you that your attention on Iran is misdirected??

Of course you will say no, FOX NOISE doesnt want you to think that way and neither does Rush, Jason Lewis, Ann Coulture,Hannity or the republican party.

Why if Saudi Arabia is providing funds for the Sunni insurgents in the millions, weapons including explosives, SMG's and sniper rifles (and by the way ---> american made) why are you not outraged by this fact as I am???

You say the terrorists are the ones who kidnap and behead people? Funny, Saudi Arabia beheads it citizens, it chops off hands of thieves, it lashes its women citizens after they have been raped, they lash women for being out after dark with a male who is NOT a blood relative, they chop off heads of women who cheat on their husbands,it doesnt allow women to work or drive cars or be in the front seat, women cant see a male doctor and if there are no female doctors around, a Saudi Women must suffer whatever illness she may have.

Would you consider this; acts of terrorism??

Now, combined your own argument with these facts and ask yourself this question:

"if the Saudi Arabian goverment is sending weapons and money that is responsible for 80% of the attacks on the US military and at home they behead and mistreat their citizens and hold them in a barbaric society, wouldnt that make them TERRORISTS?"

This is where rhetoric meets hypocrisy.

Is this Right or Wrong in your mind considering Saudi Arabia is suppose to be our allie??

The real facts are that many countries and ILLEGAL gun dealers (including americans) are making millions of dollars from arms sales in Iraq.

C4 and various plastic explosives along with the latest sniper rifles made in the USA are showing up in insurgents hands.

But who are the terrorists?

They are Iraqi nationalists. They are citizens fighting back an occupation.

Gen. Patraeus himself said before congress that foriegn fighters only make up less than 1 % of the insurgency and Al-Qaeda only has between 1500 and 2000 men in Iraq.

Why then your focus on Iran and Al-Qaeda?? Could it be the repeticious rhetoric you hear daily on Rush limpbaughs slanted radio show, or the vast number of special guests on FOX noise telling you to focus on those things?

Like I said before, there are enormous issues in Iraq, a parliment that is not working, deaths in the hundreds each and everyday, no water, no electicity, no food, no medicine and overflowing morgues that cannot hold the number of dead civilians. Religious differences that cannot be resolved thru negotiations and hatred towards the United States action.

Many countries have profited on the war. Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Iran, Pakistan, Somalia, Sudan all have arms dealers selling to Iraqi nationals.

The rhetoric sez "we are going to win in iraq"...but win what?

Define win??

Are we prepared to kill everyone in Iraq cause the number of iraqi insurgents double each year. There are more iraqis looking to kill americans in every province.

Moqtada al sadr controls over 2 million shia thru various militias and just today (sunday) warned of an all out declaration of war against the iraq goverment.

Does this sound like victory or better yet, sound like things are getting better??

Yesterday, the Iranian president declared that oil prices are not high enough and OPEC then followed by saying that they would NOT INCREASE production or adjust production to stem the rising cost of oil prices.

We fight the average man and women in iraq yet the real terror exist in countries that we favor.

The OPEC nations in the middle east are in a proxy war with this country and they know that by keeping oil prices high, the US will eventually fail.

The iranian president is having the laugh right now, he sees how keeping the US in Iraq for years will only lead to the destruction of the US infrastructure.

Dubai, Qutar, Kuwait, United Arab Emerates are funelling money into the Iraq theatre and yet we still support there oil at whatever prices.

The real terrorists are the oil profiteers who keep the fighting alive in Iraq.

The ones who will pay that price are the civilians and the members of our armed forces in Iraq.

Rhetoric confuses people into believing things that are not facts. Our media, right and left has distorted the realities of this conflict and our citizens cant discern a difference.

Today, the debate for us all is how to effectively end this war and put a stop to the occupation of a country we should have never invaded.

Peace.

 

[av8torntn]

How could you have a broader perspective of war when all you've done is target one side in your accusations? How could you have an understanding and ability to separate rhetoric from reality when you can't even provide factual information when you slander our troops?



.

 

[av8torntn]

The 527's are already airing ads. My goodness it seems early. I have heard the Dems have already raised 40 million.

Group Launches Obama 'Willie Horton' Ad

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Arrow up,

Your post is exactly why the Iraq war is going so wrong. You dont even have the first clue of who the enemy is or why they are fighting.

You are stuck on FOX Noise information and better yet, you believe that IRAN is the biggest problem in Iraq.

Lets start with this:


First, why the need to place labels on a debate over facts?
(liberal,warped belief)

The question was to YOU, and your personal interpretation of who, what, why where, how are the terrorists.

Yes, your right, IEDs, snipers, car bombs, suicide bombers etc etc are out of control in iraq. But why? Why do you lend yourself to thinking about Iran, when the Saudi Sunni's are providing more money, weapons and fighters than iran could possibly send? According to the latest US military figures, SUNNI attacks on american forces make up 80% of the casualties..

Doesnt that show you that your attention on Iran is misdirected??

Of course you will say no, FOX NOISE doesnt want you to think that way and neither does Rush, Jason Lewis, Ann Coulture,Hannity or the republican party.

Why if Saudi Arabia is providing funds for the Sunni insurgents in the millions, weapons including explosives, SMG's and sniper rifles (and by the way ---> american made) why are you not outraged by this fact as I am???

You say the terrorists are the ones who kidnap and behead people? Funny, Saudi Arabia beheads it citizens, it chops off hands of thieves, it lashes its women citizens after they have been raped, they lash women for being out after dark with a male who is NOT a blood relative, they chop off heads of women who cheat on their husbands,it doesnt allow women to work or drive cars or be in the front seat, women cant see a male doctor and if there are no female doctors around, a Saudi Women must suffer whatever illness she may have.

Would you consider this; acts of terrorism??

Now, combined your own argument with these facts and ask yourself this question:

"if the Saudi Arabian goverment is sending weapons and money that is responsible for 80% of the attacks on the US military and at home they behead and mistreat their citizens and hold them in a barbaric society, wouldnt that make them TERRORISTS?"

This is where rhetoric meets hypocrisy.

Is this Right or Wrong in your mind considering Saudi Arabia is suppose to be our allie??

The real facts are that many countries and ILLEGAL gun dealers (including americans) are making millions of dollars from arms sales in Iraq.

C4 and various plastic explosives along with the latest sniper rifles made in the USA are showing up in insurgents hands.

But who are the terrorists?

They are Iraqi nationalists. They are citizens fighting back an occupation.

Gen. Patraeus himself said before congress that foriegn fighters only make up less than 1 % of the insurgency and Al-Qaeda only has between 1500 and 2000 men in Iraq.

Why then your focus on Iran and Al-Qaeda?? Could it be the repeticious rhetoric you hear daily on Rush limpbaughs slanted radio show, or the vast number of special guests on FOX noise telling you to focus on those things?

Like I said before, there are enormous issues in Iraq, a parliment that is not working, deaths in the hundreds each and everyday, no water, no electicity, no food, no medicine and overflowing morgues that cannot hold the number of dead civilians. Religious differences that cannot be resolved thru negotiations and hatred towards the United States action.

Many countries have profited on the war. Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Iran, Pakistan, Somalia, Sudan all have arms dealers selling to Iraqi nationals.

The rhetoric sez "we are going to win in iraq"...but win what?

Define win??

Are we prepared to kill everyone in Iraq cause the number of iraqi insurgents double each year. There are more iraqis looking to kill americans in every province.

Moqtada al sadr controls over 2 million shia thru various militias and just today (sunday) warned of an all out declaration of war against the iraq goverment.

Does this sound like victory or better yet, sound like things are getting better??

Yesterday, the Iranian president declared that oil prices are not high enough and OPEC then followed by saying that they would NOT INCREASE production or adjust production to stem the rising cost of oil prices.

We fight the average man and women in iraq yet the real terror exist in countries that we favor.

The OPEC nations in the middle east are in a proxy war with this country and they know that by keeping oil prices high, the US will eventually fail.

The iranian president is having the laugh right now, he sees how keeping the US in Iraq for years will only lead to the destruction of the US infrastructure.

Dubai, Qutar, Kuwait, United Arab Emerates are funelling money into the Iraq theatre and yet we still support there oil at whatever prices.

The real terrorists are the oil profiteers who keep the fighting alive in Iraq.

The ones who will pay that price are the civilians and the members of our armed forces in Iraq.

Rhetoric confuses people into believing things that are not facts. Our media, right and left has distorted the realities of this conflict and our citizens cant discern a difference.

Today, the debate for us all is how to effectively end this war and put a stop to the occupation of a country we should have never invaded.

Peace.

You must not have been on this board long otherwise you'd know that I've accused Saudi Arabia of being a problem. Other than that point I see no need to respond to the piles and piles of crap you keep spewing on here anymore. It's ironic how you keep mentioning rhetoric as if it's the magic word that brings instant credibility and substance to your ranting but if you'd step back and comprehend your own material you'd see it for for what it is....rhetoric. I was in the military and live pretty close to several military bases. I know many people that have been to Iraq and Afghanistan. That is why I know that just about everything you say has about Iraq and our military has about as much credibility as a Hillary Clinton sniper fire story. And I think it's hilarious that you liberals hate Fox News so much. Could it be that you all just can't stand the fact that it's the only network that comes anywhere close to bringing accurate information to the table? I guess that's why they beat the hell out of your commie news networks such as CNN and MSNBC. The ratings don't lie. Get over it.

 

[moreluck]

Go Fox !!

 

[BrownShark]

Here could be a reason our military members commit crimes in IRAQ...could it be a criminal record before they get into the service??

Desperate times cause for desperate actions I guess....I see the marines are looking for a few good men! LMAO

Military Waivers for Ex-Convicts Increase

By Ann Scott Tyson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, April 22, 2008; A01

The Army admitted about one-fourth more recruits last year with a record of legal problems ranging from felony convictions and serious misdemeanors to drug crimes and traffic offenses, as pressure to increase the size of U.S. ground forces led the military to grant more waivers for criminal conduct, according to new data released yesterday.
Such "conduct waivers" for Army recruits rose from 8,129 in fiscal 2006 to 10,258 in fiscal 2007. For Marine Corps recruits, they increased from 16,969 to 17,413.
In particular, the Army accepted more than double the number of applicants with convictions for felony crimes such as burglary, grand larceny and aggravated assault, rising from 249 to 511, while the corresponding number for the Marines increased by two-thirds, from 208 to 350. The vast majority of such convictions stem from juvenile offenses. Most involved theft, but a handful involved sexual assault and terrorist threats, and there were three cases of involuntary manslaughter.
"The significant increase in the recruitment of persons with criminal records is a result of the strain put on the military by the Iraq war," said Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-Calif.), chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, which released the Pentagon data on felony waivers.
Pentagon officials acknowledged that the requirement to recruit more troops -- part of an effort to expand the Army and Marine Corps by tens of thousands by 2011 -- coupled with declining interest in military service in part caused by the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, has led to accepting more recruits with criminal backgrounds. By contrast, felony waivers in the Navy fell from 48 in 2006 to 42 last year and the Air Force had none in either year.
"We're digging deeper into the barrel than we were before" as a result of the difficult recruiting environment, said a Defense Department official, who requested anonymity because he had not been authorized to speak publicly. "Would I like to see the waivers lower? Yes."
Serious misdemeanors last year made up the largest single category of conduct waivers, which excuse crimes ranging from armed robbery to, in the case of the Marine Corps, one-time marijuana use.
Last year, the active-duty Army and Marine Corps brought in about 80,000 and 35,000 active-duty recruits, respectively; the number of 2007 recruits with felony conviction waivers amounted to less than 1 percent of the total soldiers and Marines recruited that year.
The defense official stressed that the standards for granting waivers are stringent -- requiring the approval of officers up to a two-star general -- and remain unchanged. "We're looking at more of these people" but with "the same level of scrutiny" as before, the official said.
In a letter sent yesterday to David Chu, the undersecretary of defense for personnel and readiness, Waxman said he recognizes the importance of providing opportunities to rehabilitated criminals, a sentiment voiced by some senior Army officials.
"The thing is, you've got to give people an opportunity to serve," said Lt. Gen. James D. Thurman, the Army's operations chief, when asked about the waivers yesterday. "We are growing the Army fast, there are some waivers . . . it hasn't alarmed us yet."
Recruits with criminal records have shown mixed performance in the military. A study last year by the Center for Naval Analyses tracked the attrition rates of Marines who enlisted with legal waivers between 2003 and 2005. It showed slightly higher boot camp attrition for those with serious or minor misdemeanor waivers, but somewhat lower attrition for those who committed felonies.
However, those with waivers were "quite a bit more likely" than other recruits to be separated from the service for misconduct within two years, and "recruits with felony waivers have the highest chance of a misconduct separation," it found.
"It is absolutely an important indicator," said Christine Wormuth, a senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. "But," she added, "it won't mean 100 more Hadithas or cases of soldier abuse," referring to the November 2005 killing of as many as two dozen civilians by Marines in Haditha, Iraq.
Waivers granted for felonies and other crimes constitute the majority of all waivers -- about 60 percent for the Army, and 75 percent for the Marine Corps. But other exceptions are also increasing, suggesting that the Army and Marine Corps are bringing in lower-quality recruits, according to Pentagon data and experts.
Army and Marine Corps waivers for medical problems -- such as being overweight -- increased last year. Medical waivers constituted about 30 percent of all Army waivers last year and 25 percent of those for the Marine Corps. Also, in recent years the Army has been accepting more recruits who are not high school graduates.
"The numbers seem pretty clear to me that we are lowering standards, and it's difficult for me to see how that wouldn't have a negative impact on the quality of the force," Wormuth said.
Lengthy war-zone deployments are an important factor discouraging youths and their parents from considering military service, according to military officials and surveys. A decision this month to reduce active-duty Army tours in Iraq and Afghanistan from 15 months to 12 months beginning in August will start a long process of alleviating some of that stress, Thurman said.
By late 2009, he estimated, the amount of time that active-duty soldiers will have at home between combat rotations will increase from a year to about 18 months, assuming no new demands are placed on the Army overseas.

 

[BrownShark]

You must not have been on this board long otherwise you'd know that I've accused Saudi Arabia of being a problem. Other than that point I see no need to respond to the piles and piles of crap you keep spewing on here anymore. It's ironic how you keep mentioning rhetoric as if it's the magic word that brings instant credibility and substance to your ranting but if you'd step back and comprehend your own material you'd see it for for what it is....rhetoric. I was in the military and live pretty close to several military bases. I know many people that have been to Iraq and Afghanistan. That is why I know that just about everything you say has about Iraq and our military has about as much credibility as a Hillary Clinton sniper fire story. And I think it's hilarious that you liberals hate Fox News so much. Could it be that you all just can't stand the fact that it's the only network that comes anywhere close to bringing accurate information to the table? I guess that's why they beat the hell out of your commie news networks such as CNN and MSNBC. The ratings don't lie. Get over it.

I see the FOX Noise koolaid has affected you deeply. Here's a little insight to your "fair and balanced" nonsense on FOX Noise.

Roger Eugene Ailes (born May 15, 1940) is the president of Fox News Channel and chairman of the Fox Television Stations Group. He was a media consultant for Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, and George H. W. Bush, as well as Rudy Giuliani’s first mayoral campaign in 1989.[2]

[edit] Political consulting

Ailes served as a political consultant for many Republican candidates during the 1970s and 1980s, but returned to presidential campaigning as a consultant to Ronald Reagan in 1984. He is widely credited with having coached Reagan to victory in the second presidential debate with Walter Mondale.
In 1988 Ailes was credited (along with Lee Atwater) with guiding George H. W. Bush to a come-from-behind [11] victory over Michael Dukakis. He has been credited with scripting the infamous Willie Horton ad.[12] He has also been mistakenly credited with codirecting the ad, which in fact was directed and produced by the National Security Political Action Committee.[13]
Ailes did not work on the 1992 Bush campaign against Bill Clinton.

In 1991, Ailes convinced a syndicator to bring Rush Limbaugh from radio to television and became executive producer of the late-night show. He announced his withdrawal from political consulting in 1992.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Big arrow,

"Fair and Balanced"?? A paid political hack runs FOX noise with deeeeep ties to the republican party and you call it

"the only network that comes anywhere close to bringing accurate information to the table?"

cmon, your not this naive are ya??

Peace

p.s. something of interest:
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/11/16/ailes/
http://www.newshounds.us/2004/12/20/the_lies_of_roger_ailes.php

 

[BrownShark]

Big Arrow Up,

Everyday you get sold a pile of nonsense from "message surrogates" on FOX Noise and you dont even know it.

One of the biggest "message surrogates" on FOX noise is Bill Kristol, aks William Kristol. Everyweek he appears on many FOX noise shows spouting his views on war, democracy and bringing democracy to the middle east. But theres a reason.

Research this nut and see where he comes from, what he stands for and why is he concerned with war? Hmmm....

"Fair and balanced" ??

Kristol Clear

Bill Kristol, PNAC, 9/11 & The Media

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=+1]An Exposé By TvNews[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=+1]LIES[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=+1].org[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]“… While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]A Report of the Project for the New American Century ([/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]PNAC[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]), [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]Rebuilding America's Defenses - September, 2000[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]To understand Bill Kristol, you have to examine his modus operandi – his devious ways of plying a nefarious art. Bill Kristol is a master neocon, a heartless warmonger and an accomplished charlatan. But Bill Kristol works behind the curtain. He sets the stage and pulls the strings, while others do his dirty work. And Bill Kristol, with little fanfare or publicity, is one of the most influential architects of George W. Bush’s wars.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]To know the man, you have to look behind his overt persona. Bill Kristol makes no secret of his views or his philosophy. He has never hidden his affiliation with of the Project for a New American Century PNAC), of which he is a founder. And yet, when introduced to the public, he is never, ever connected to that organization. He is always presented as the editor of the Weekly Standard, as benign an introduction as can be.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]Neither Kristol nor the magazine is ever tied to [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]PNAC[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif] by [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]the corporate media[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]. The dots are never connected. The truth is never told, and the facts behind the story remain hidden. But just this week, a slight slit appeared in the mask. A recent feature article in Kristol’s Weekly Standard gave this editor food for thought. Some signs of anxiety and concern on the part of the always-smiling, always-suave Bill Kristol may just be seeping through. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]A subsequent PNAC plan written in 2000, was entitled “Rebuilding America’s Defenses: Strategies, Forces and Resources for a New Century,” The treatise clearly showed that members of the Bush administration had planned to take military control of the Gulf region one way or another, long before the attacks of 9/11.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]Remember also, that PNAC members became deeply entrenched in many powerful and strategic positions once George Bush was installed as President. Clearly, the plan could now become a reality. But, how?[/FONT]




[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]Here’s how: The PNAC plan openly called for a “transformation” of the U.S. military into an imperialistic force of global domination. That was more easily said than done. The American people would have to go along with the idea, and that was a problem, but not an insurmountable one. Read the next line very, very carefully: [/FONT]

• [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=+1]“The process of transformation,” the plan said, “is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event—like a new Pearl Harbor.”[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]Let that sink in: like a new Pearl Harbor…like a new Pearl Harbor….like 9/11. Is there any question that 9/11 constituted a catastrophic and catalyzing event very similar to Pearl Harbor? Is there any question that the PNAC plan for war against Iraq became feasible only because of 9/11? Is there any question at all that PNAC got its new Pearl Harbor exactly at the right moment in history? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]Let that all sink in and calculate the possibility of all this being sheer coincidence. Would you bet the ranch on the odds?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]WHAT NEXT?[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]Not very much of consequence, if the public remains as uniformed as it is. Walk up to the first ten people you know and ask them what PNAC is. Ask them if they know the PNAC members in Washington and beyond. Most of them won’t have a clue. Try it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]The corporate media won’t touch PNAC. They won’t touch the treatise that started the fireball rolling into Afghanistan and Iraq. And they’ll never, ever expose the discussion of a new Pearl Harbor and its frightening implications. So don’t wait for them to do so.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]What’s next is up to all of us. If we do nothing, PNAC moves another step closer to its goal of military domination of the globe. If we inform those who are unaware, we have a chance to bring them down. Bill Kristol has to be exposed for who he is. That, for starters, is Kristol clear.[/FONT]
* * * * * * * * *

Please, dont embarrass yourself by saying FOX noise is "fair and balanced", thats like saying Rush Limpbaugh is news program!

Peace

 

[brett636]

Big Arrow Up,

Everyday you get sold a pile of nonsense from "message surrogates" on FOX Noise and you dont even know it.

One of the biggest "message surrogates" on FOX noise is Bill Kristol, aks William Kristol. Everyweek he appears on many FOX noise shows spouting his views on war, democracy and bringing democracy to the middle east. But theres a reason.

Research this nut and see where he comes from, what he stands for and why is he concerned with war? Hmmm....

"Fair and balanced" ??

Kristol Clear

Bill Kristol, PNAC, 9/11 & The Media

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=+1]An Exposé By TvNews[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=+1]LIES[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=+1].org[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]“… While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]A Report of the Project for the New American Century ([/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]PNAC[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]), [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]Rebuilding America's Defenses - September, 2000[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]To understand Bill Kristol, you have to examine his modus operandi – his devious ways of plying a nefarious art. Bill Kristol is a master neocon, a heartless warmonger and an accomplished charlatan. But Bill Kristol works behind the curtain. He sets the stage and pulls the strings, while others do his dirty work. And Bill Kristol, with little fanfare or publicity, is one of the most influential architects of George W. Bush’s wars.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]To know the man, you have to look behind his overt persona. Bill Kristol makes no secret of his views or his philosophy. He has never hidden his affiliation with of the Project for a New American Century PNAC), of which he is a founder. And yet, when introduced to the public, he is never, ever connected to that organization. He is always presented as the editor of the Weekly Standard, as benign an introduction as can be.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]Neither Kristol nor the magazine is ever tied to [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]PNAC[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif] by [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]the corporate media[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]. The dots are never connected. The truth is never told, and the facts behind the story remain hidden. But just this week, a slight slit appeared in the mask. A recent feature article in Kristol’s Weekly Standard gave this editor food for thought. Some signs of anxiety and concern on the part of the always-smiling, always-suave Bill Kristol may just be seeping through. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]A subsequent PNAC plan written in 2000, was entitled “Rebuilding America’s Defenses: Strategies, Forces and Resources for a New Century,” The treatise clearly showed that members of the Bush administration had planned to take military control of the Gulf region one way or another, long before the attacks of 9/11.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]Remember also, that PNAC members became deeply entrenched in many powerful and strategic positions once George Bush was installed as President. Clearly, the plan could now become a reality. But, how?[/FONT]




[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]Here’s how: The PNAC plan openly called for a “transformation” of the U.S. military into an imperialistic force of global domination. That was more easily said than done. The American people would have to go along with the idea, and that was a problem, but not an insurmountable one. Read the next line very, very carefully: [/FONT]

• [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=+1]“The process of transformation,” the plan said, “is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event—like a new Pearl Harbor.”[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]Let that sink in: like a new Pearl Harbor…like a new Pearl Harbor….like 9/11. Is there any question that 9/11 constituted a catastrophic and catalyzing event very similar to Pearl Harbor? Is there any question that the PNAC plan for war against Iraq became feasible only because of 9/11? Is there any question at all that PNAC got its new Pearl Harbor exactly at the right moment in history? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]Let that all sink in and calculate the possibility of all this being sheer coincidence. Would you bet the ranch on the odds?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]WHAT NEXT?[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]Not very much of consequence, if the public remains as uniformed as it is. Walk up to the first ten people you know and ask them what PNAC is. Ask them if they know the PNAC members in Washington and beyond. Most of them won’t have a clue. Try it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]The corporate media won’t touch PNAC. They won’t touch the treatise that started the fireball rolling into Afghanistan and Iraq. And they’ll never, ever expose the discussion of a new Pearl Harbor and its frightening implications. So don’t wait for them to do so.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Sans-serif,sans-serif]What’s next is up to all of us. If we do nothing, PNAC moves another step closer to its goal of military domination of the globe. If we inform those who are unaware, we have a chance to bring them down. Bill Kristol has to be exposed for who he is. That, for starters, is Kristol clear.[/FONT]
* * * * * * * * *

Please, dont embarrass yourself by saying FOX noise is "fair and balanced", thats like saying Rush Limpbaugh is news program!

Peace

Wow, that sounds like a fair and balanced article you posted. No reason to doubt the information considering how objective the writer seems on this issue.

You really are pathetic, you have made no connections to Bill Kristol on anything. You make allegations without any proof. You post slanted articles that make no points. You have yet to post any facts requested by others in this thread, yet you continue to spew nonsense on other issues where its safe to say you don't have a basic grasp of. You started off in this thread lying about having your posts deleted, and you want us to believe everything else you post? You have no credibility here except for in your own feeble mind.

 

[BrownShark]

Brett,

Do me a favor, would you try and get the POINT of what I write about?

Why are you all about killing the messenger and not about addressing the message?

As for your claims of proof, Boot has already been owned and no further info needs to be provided to him.

The Marines and armed forces HAVE committed crimes, HAVE been convicted, Have been imprisoned, HAVE been charged and HAVE a pattern of war crimes against innocent IRaqi citizens.

You and Boot disputing this is humurous to no end.

Peace

 

[av8torntn]

Brett,

Do me a favor, would you try and get the POINT of what I write about?

Why are you all about killing the messenger and not about addressing the message?

As for your claims of proof, Boot has already been owned and no further info needs to be provided to him.

The Marines and armed forces HAVE committed crimes, HAVE been convicted, Have been imprisoned, HAVE been charged and HAVE a pattern of war crimes against innocent IRaqi citizens.

You and Boot disputing this is humurous to no end.

Peace

I'm still waiting for the proof of Army snipers that have been convicted of murder for baiting targets like you claimed. You did after all say they have all been given ten year sentences in the last two weeks. I suppose you are still searching far and wide for this proof you said you already had. You posted it. You said all I had to do was ask for the proof that you had and you would post it. I have asked many times and yet you still for some reason cannot seem to post it. Why? Is is because you lied? I think so. You say now no proof needs to be provided of your false claim. Why, when you offered do you now say no proof needs to be provided? Interesting. Could it be that you have no proof even though you claimed you did? Could it be that the articles I posted claiming these men were found not guilty are true? Very likely. I know you feel the desire to post another unrelated article but try and stick to the point as you suggest.

 

[brett636]

Brett,

Do me a favor, would you try and get the POINT of what I write about?

Why are you all about killing the messenger and not about addressing the message?

As for your claims of proof, Boot has already been owned and no further info needs to be provided to him.

The Marines and armed forces HAVE committed crimes, HAVE been convicted, Have been imprisoned, HAVE been charged and HAVE a pattern of war crimes against innocent IRaqi citizens.

You and Boot disputing this is humurous to no end.

Peace

The problem is everything you write has been disputed. You are the one who is further degrading what little credibility you have left by continuing to post nonsense.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

The problem is everything you write has been disputed. You are the one who is further degrading what little credibility you have left by continuing to post nonsense.

I'm starting to think this guy is a troll. I surely hope so because the only other option is that he really believes the crap he is posting here.

 

[wkmac]

I know you guys have been going round and round and it all started over preachers but of course the Bill Ayers story has made news as well. Yesterday I found this piece on Mr. Ayers concerning education and it might prove rather alarming in a lot of quarters. At least it gives one to pause a minute.

http://www.city-journal.org/2008/eon0423ss.html

From the article:

Ayers’s influence on what is taught in the nation’s public schools is likely to grow in the future. Last month, he was elected vice president for curriculum of the 25,000-member American Educational Research Association (AERA), the nation’s largest organization of education-school professors and researchers. Ayers won the election handily, and there is no doubt that his fellow education professors knew whom they were voting for. In the short biographical statement distributed to prospective voters beforehand, Ayers listed among his scholarly books Fugitive Days, an unapologetic memoir about his ten years in the Weather Underground. The book includes dramatic accounts of how he bombed the Pentagon and other public buildings.

What impact will Mr. Ayers have with Obama in the area of education if elected President? That IMO is a very legit question to ask in lite of Mr. Ayers radical past and and now his current positions.

 

[moreluck]

Obama's preacher will be on PBS tonight on Bill Moyer's Journal. For those of you who are like me, PBS IS a TV station with other things besides Big Bird.

8 PM West Coast time.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Wow. Obama sure can pick em! LOL! Add this person to the list of his questionable associations.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=62681

 

[BrownShark]

Arrow,

man you when you take the "bait" you take the line, sinker and hook!

LMAO...youthful ignorance is an enduring feature!

Peace

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Arrow,

man you when you take the "bait" you take the line, sinker and hook!

LMAO...youthful ignorance is an enduring feature!

Peace

If not bringing more truthful info on the man to light is ignorance then yeah....I'm as ignorant as they come. Or maybe I should adopt liberal traits. Then I can ignore the truth and live in the fantasy world that you guys seem to enjoy. Nah....I think I'll stick to cold hard facts.

 

[1989]

Obama's preacher will be on PBS tonight on Bill Moyer's Journal. For those of you who are like me, PBS IS a TV station with other things besides Big Bird.

8 PM West Coast time.

PBS also has Elmo and Cookie Monster too...

 

[diesel96]

Arrow,

man you when you take the "bait" you take the line, sinker and hook!

LMAO...youthful ignorance is an enduring feature!

Peace

BrownShark, your preaching to the choir when it comes to BigArrow and those who shares his views, two of his most political influential figures in the right wing noise machine---Rush Lindbaugh and Matt Drudge--spent virtually all of the 90's spewing one assault after another against the Clintons based not on policy disputes but instead on gender, cultural, and highly sexualized themes. This draft avioding, illegal pill addicted, and multiple divorced Limbaugh burdened with one of the most degraded personal lives of any public figure anywhere is the voice of the right wing hypocrites. And Matt Drudge, an unmarried, reputedly closet homosexual repeatedly spewing rumors fed to him by Lindbaugh and bottom feeding dwellers of the likes of Laura Inagraham, Goerge Conway, and Ann Coulter. Hence, the drudge circle of right wing smear merchants and their tactics have become not just mainstream but dominant. Many of our country's top journalist working at the top echelons of our most respected news organizations have resorted and depended on the tabloid-gossip of the Drudge Report. And they all scream bloody "Liberal Media" without realizing the media establishment has been "Drudge-ified", taken over by right wing dirt peddling, guilt by association, and twisted genderbashers that is beyond dispute.