Only 5% of next car purchasers expect to buy all electric cars-Road and Track.

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
The difference isn't in initial funding.

I have no idea why people can't simply acknowledge that the difference is that it is led by a once in a generation (or less) kind of person.

From almost nothing to a trillion dollar market cap, while running a side business space company better than NASA. If Elon were behind Rivian and starting with no money, you'd have Rivian going to Mars and being a trillion dollars.

Gates and Jobs put together might be as accompslished.
I admit that the would have gotten there eventually but there is no way that he would be nearly as successful today if he were still waiting for investor funding. Being personally able to absorb the inevitable start up losses is a huge advantage---plus, being able to see billions in stock options simply to pay ones taxes is also an advantage.

Elon is a smart but smug guy who clearly knows what he is going. I do not fault him for that; however, as I said above, if not for his personal deep pockets, he would not be where he is today.
 

wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
I admit that the would have gotten there eventually but there is no way that he would be nearly as successful today if he were still waiting for investor funding. Being personally able to absorb the inevitable start up losses is a huge advantage---plus, being able to see billions in stock options simply to pay ones taxes is also an advantage.

Elon is a smart but smug guy who clearly knows what he is going. I do not fault him for that; however, as I said above, if not for his personal deep pockets, he would not be where he is today.
He created his own personal deep pockets by founding what is now a 200B corporation.

So, he has founded two corporations worth over 100B, and one worth over 1 trillion.

He created his own head start. There is nobody who has founded 3 businesses in 3 completely separate areas, and all of them are that big.

The Boring Company and Neurolink will be 2 more.

Elon would have turned Rivian into a trillion-dollar car company with a Mars exploration arm no matter what anyone did. Money flows to capable people. That's how markets work. Markets worked for Elon because he is better than Jobs and Gates put together. Money took 13 years to flow to Rivian because they're more human and that's how long it took them to get something good, after copying Musk.

Investor funding didn't go to Rivian for so long because it sucked. Elon doesn't suck, and would have received all the investor funding he needed with any start.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
He created his own personal deep pockets by founding what is now a 200B corporation.

So, he has founded two corporations worth over 100B, and one worth over 1 trillion.

He created his own head start. There is nobody who has founded 3 businesses in 3 completely separate areas, and all of them are that big.

The Boring Company and Neurolink will be 2 more.

Elon would have turned Rivian into a trillion-dollar car company with a Mars exploration arm no matter what anyone did. Money flows to capable people. That's how markets work. Markets worked for Elon because he is better than Jobs and Gates put together. Money took 13 years to flow to Rivian because they're more human and that's how long it took them to get something good, after copying Musk.

Investor funding didn't go to Rivian for so long because it sucked. Elon doesn't suck, and would have received all the investor funding he needed with any start.
dude elon took so much money in govt welfare

tesla would be bankrupt were it not for public roads.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
The one point that I have yet to see discussed was the potential loss of taxes from reduced consumption of gasoline as we transition to EV's. There will need to be some sort of user fee put in place to ensure that our roads are maintained.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
The one point that I have yet to see discussed was the potential loss of taxes from reduced consumption of gasoline as we transition to EV's. There will need to be some sort of user fee put in place to ensure that our roads are maintained.
you dont want tolls on roads because it makes your country uncompetitive by turning it into a high cost economy.

the reason the roads currently are not maintained is bc the military is draining it in part.

i think where the economy is headed ppl wont be able to afford cars anymore.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
you dont want tolls on roads because it makes your country uncompetitive by turning it into a high cost economy.

the reason the roads currently are not maintained is bc the military is draining it in part.

i think where the economy is headed ppl wont be able to afford cars anymore.
Our Federal govt adds $.18 and NY adds $.25 to every gallon of gas sold. These funds are supposed to be used in part to maintain our non-toll roads. Toll roads use the tolls collected to specifically maintain those roads. As we transition away from ICE, we will need to replace those funds.

As for the rest of your drivel, perhaps you should focus on the Canadian economy.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
Our Federal govt adds $.18 and NY adds $.25 to every gallon of gas sold. These funds are supposed to be used in part to maintain our non-toll roads. Toll roads use the tolls collected to specifically maintain those roads. As we transition away from ICE, we will need to replace those funds.

As for the rest of your drivel, perhaps you should focus on the Canadian economy.
We tax too. we
should tax very high so cost of gas is more realistic.

I will never focus on canadian economy much like america will never stop focusing on other countries w wars
 

quad decade guy

Well-Known Member
He created his own personal deep pockets by founding what is now a 200B corporation.

So, he has founded two corporations worth over 100B, and one worth over 1 trillion.

He created his own head start. There is nobody who has founded 3 businesses in 3 completely separate areas, and all of them are that big.

The Boring Company and Neurolink will be 2 more.

Elon would have turned Rivian into a trillion-dollar car company with a Mars exploration arm no matter what anyone did. Money flows to capable people. That's how markets work. Markets worked for Elon because he is better than Jobs and Gates put together. Money took 13 years to flow to Rivian because they're more human and that's how long it took them to get something good, after copying Musk.

Investor funding didn't go to Rivian for so long because it sucked. Elon doesn't suck, and would have received all the investor funding he needed with any start.
I thought about this here and there last night....

Where have I heard this type of Man/product crush......

Wild eyed Jim Jones type fanaticism.....

AMWAY!

Church of Scientology...

Just this side of a timeshare salesman.......


And beating NASA....lololololol. What one way tickets to Mars? OMG.
It's so funny to hear about missed targets and all that Jazz. There is nobody that has taken cars from drawing board to production this fast, updated editions this fast, or proven as flexible. The only conceivable problem is that Elon has a slightly big mouth about it, and then beating everybody else isn't good enough, because it's not quite what he said.

Whatever.

They'll make a quarter million of them a year in that building or more, and they'll charge whatever they want, and they'll all sell before they're built.
Yeah.....all that jazz....
 

PT Car Washer

Well-Known Member
I recently purchased a 2021 Hyundai Kona EV with a sticker price of about $44K. NY has a Drive Clean POS rebate of up to $2K, which brought the sticker down to $42K. The dealer took another $1K off and gave me $1K more than what I owed on my trade bringing the total sticker down to about $40K. There is a federal EV non-refundable credit of up to $7,500, based on the model and the number of vehicles sold. GM and Tesla have both reached their vehicles sold limits. The Build Better Back bill, which will be signed once Joe Manchin gets his head out of his butt, proposes to add up to $5K to that rebate, and to make it fully refundable, if the car is build in a union facility. Fully refundable means that you would get the balance of the rebate once your Federal tax liability has been satisfied. For example, if you owe $5K, you would receive a refund of up to $7,500.

I love this vehicle. I have not had to buy gas since 5/28/21. I have 3 years of complimentary maintenance which is basically a top off of all fluids (EV cars do not use oil) and a tire rotation. During the summer I can get up to 315 miles on a single charge----I have noticed that this is much lower (250 miles +/-) during the winter. The complex where I live installed two Level 2 chargers in front of the clubhouse which are free to all EV owners. I also had a Level 2 charging station installed in my garage. I used the free one when the weather is nicer and the one in my garage when it is not. Driving an EV vehicle is much like driving a very expensive bumper car---you primarily use only the gas pedal---braking is done when you let off of the gas. I was a bit surprised at the acceleration----I have no problem keeping up with highway traffic and can "punch it" when needed. Mine has three different levels of resistance which is how the batteries use the engine to recharge. It has most of the bells and whistles but surprisingly did not come with a CD player (Apple play) or GPS/nav (Apple maps). There are a number of gauges to show you how much of a charge you have left and how efficiently you are driving.

To your point-----I had the same concerns when I first went to look for a EV car. ONG makes an excellent point----they are primarily commuter cars not intended for long road trips. As stated above, during the summer I can get just over 300 miles on a single charge which on a Level 2 charger is roughly 6-8 hours, depending on how much of a charge is needed. The same would take upward of an hour on a Level 3 charger. I recently drove from Salem MA to Albany NY (roughly 200 miles) on a single charge. The Mass Pike has several rest areas that have Level 3 charging stations which, as Wilber stated, could be used to charge your car while you and the family are having lunch. I did notice at several of the rest areas that non-EV cars were parked in the EV charging only parking spots.

I do have to respectfully disagree with some of the claims Wilber is making. I find it hard to believe that he drove 1K miles with only adding about 3 hours to the trip. Range anxiety is a huge concern for owners of EV cars. I have 3 different apps on my phone which let me charge on 3 different networks. The number of available EV fast charging stations will increase as the demand for EV cars increases but I would still be hesitant to drive more than 200-250 miles without planning for at least a 2 hour break. I have noticed that my utility bill has gone up $50-100/month depending upon how many times I use my home charging station.

I never would have though about purchasing an EV car had I not relocated to the Albany (NY) area, due to the low number of public charging stations where I used to live. They are plentiful down here and I never have to worry about going below 50 miles of charge. My next door neighbor has an EV Mini Cooper----he is elderly and his memory is not the best, which is probably why I saw his car being towed home on a flatbed as he had let the charge go down too low. When this happens you can't just simply plug the car in and let it charge----you also have to get it jumped.

As with any other technological change, there will be a tremendous amount of resistance, along with growing pains, but IMO the smart money is on EV cars.
Just wondering how running the heater and defrosters effect the range. Or air conditioning in the Summer months.
 

wilberforce15

Well-Known Member
I thought about this here and there last night....

Where have I heard this type of Man/product crush......

Wild eyed Jim Jones type fanaticism.....

AMWAY!

Church of Scientology...

Just this side of a timeshare salesman.......


And beating NASA....lololololol. What one way tickets to Mars? OMG.

Yeah.....all that jazz....
He founded a trillion dollar company, a 200 billion dollar company, and a 100 billion dollar company, all while everyone told him they were all stupid. He was universally mocked and still is.

Now, he's the richest man on Earth and he plans to die at a colony he plants on Mars, getting there on rocket he built.

He landed a rocket on its own butt on a platform in the ocean. And you guys think he can't build a truck.

So....yeah, Amway.
 
Last edited:

rickyb

Well-Known Member
He created his own personal deep pockets by founding what is now a 200B corporation.

So, he has founded two corporations worth over 100B, and one worth over 1 trillion.

He created his own head start. There is nobody who has founded 3 businesses in 3 completely separate areas, and all of them are that big.

The Boring Company and Neurolink will be 2 more.

Elon would have turned Rivian into a trillion-dollar car company with a Mars exploration arm no matter what anyone did. Money flows to capable people. That's how markets work. Markets worked for Elon because he is better than Jobs and Gates put together. Money took 13 years to flow to Rivian because they're more human and that's how long it took them to get something good, after copying Musk.

Investor funding didn't go to Rivian for so long because it sucked. Elon doesn't suck, and would have received all the investor funding he needed with any start.
Yessss markets r wonderful
Screenshot_20220111-143443_Firefox.jpg
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
He founded a trillion dollar company, a 200 billion dollar company, and a 100 billion dollar company, all while everyone told him they were all stupid. He was universally mocked and still is.

Now, he's the richest man on Earth and he plans to die at a colony he plants on Mars, getting there on rocket he built.

So....yeah, Amway.
Yea hes an idiot
 

Commercial Inside Release

Well-Known Member
Travelling from Earth and bringing our pathogens, to anaerobic Mars, will kill the colonists almost as quick as mechanical failure will cause them to freeze to death.
Mars spends most of the year around -100°friend and dips to -220.
The clostridium botulinum bacteria that inhabits nearly everything on Earth will sprout with a vengeance and quickly poison the colonists.

Colonizing Mars is hubris... A fate that often befalls megalomaniacs like Elon.
 
Top