Please help..freaking out..husband fired for accident

[trickpony1]

So any evidence gathered after the center manager told your husband he was fired is not admissable.

Who made this rule up?
This rule not only seems contrary to any common sense but may contradict fundamental jurisprudence.
If this rule is indeed true then why do we even bother with the local hearing, panels and, if needed, deadlock panel and, if needed, arbitration?

 

[dannyboy]

Rod, no he is not. And that proves one thing I have been trying to say about him and some other managers. They are honest as you or I. And if you give them the reason to treat you like a human, they will if they are given the chance.

Sometimes his brutal honesty is taken the wrong way, and sometimes he is just plain wrong. But his is honest in his opinions and what he posts.


BTW, I had the great pleasure of talking to him the other night. He is every bit as nice off the board as on.

Tie, it was a pleasure!

d

 

[trickpony1]

Danny-
Where is the justice when our company is, apparently, the judge, jury and executioner?
If we are going to revert to the justice system of Communist China then let's just put a bullet in his head, send his family a bill for 19 cents and get on with life as usual.
What a bunch of crap!

 

[dannyboy]

Trick

Unless he has neutered shop stewards, they ought to be able to pick this one appart. This was handled all wrong from the git go. you know it, I know it, and so does tie.

Please dont throw in the towel. his management team has really gone overboard. Unless there is something else there that has not been mentioned, it is case closed. Driver not able to be fired because the car was driven from the site. Does not have to be far, just that it was driven away under its own power.

I too am under the understanding that any new evidence gathered by management to bolster their stand after the punishment has been given is not admissable when it comes to making their case. In this case, I think the center manager is bluffing, and his hand should be called.

d

 

[upsgrunt]

If it is as you say you should thank the center manager for screwing up the case. We have the right to investigate an accident for I believe up to twenty days before deciding discipline.( contract not handy) Once the center manager announces discipline the investigation is over and no other evidence can be introduced. So any evidence gathered after the center manager told your husband he was fired is not admissable.

So when the center manager first walks up to the scene, and the first words out of his mouth are "you're fired", the investigation is over and no further evidence is admissable? What are we talking 10 seconds? How can the center manager be investigator, judge, and jury in 10 seconds when no evidence was even looked at, and then, no other evidence is admissable? Are center managers taught this in sbts; to fire first so no evidence can be used past that point?

 

[tieguy]

Rod, no he is not. And that proves one thing I have been trying to say about him and some other managers. They are honest as you or I. And if you give them the reason to treat you like a human, they will if they are given the chance.

Sometimes his brutal honesty is taken the wrong way, and sometimes he is just plain wrong. But his is honest in his opinions and what he posts.


BTW, I had the great pleasure of talking to him the other night. He is every bit as nice off the board as on.

Tie, it was a pleasure!

d

Likewise. You continue to impress me with the new tricks you have developed outside of ups.

 

[trplnkl]

UPSRWIFE, I know you have said it several ( " the accident happened
the center mgr and road supervisor showed up
the cop showed up
before any finalization of anything the center mgr said your fired, no union there. ")times and I am not doubting what you are saying, however I have to ask this question. Would you ask your husband if he actually said the words "You're fired" of did he say " Your are being taken out of service"? The two terms mean pretty much the same on the surface, but do indeed mean something quite different. I know the first time I heard a sup say I was being taken out of service, my mind kept saying I was fired.
Contrary to popular belief a driver can be taken out of service (a disciplinary action)without a union rep being present.

 

[upsrwife]

he said "your fired" and then said it again the next morning. they told us his insurance coverage stopped friday. i don't know what to think anymore. the amount of stress and grief my family is going thru right now is overwhelming. my husband has never been fired from a job. if it's true they do this to "scare you" it's s ****t y . i am praying everything works out.

 

[dillweed]

If the cost was going into that sups pocket maybe. where is he going to find the time of day to play all these games. You should go back to the sup that told you this and give him hell for jerking you around with these wild bs concepts.

tie, with all respect some managers do play games. The rules are made up as the game continues and it is not fun. This is partly why our Union reps spend so much time filing grievances.

Be assured I am not accusing you of playing games. Some do, some don't.

 

[dillweed]

I may be very wrong here but it seems to me there is some paperwork a driver is supposed to sign saying the accident was indeed their fault and so forth. Those drivers might get their jobs back quickly.

We have an excellent driver who was fired for an unavoidable (in most opinions) accident. She refused to sign papers and was off work for months. She did return.

An air driver rear-ended someone in an intersection and was back several days later.

Again, I may be wrong here because I was not personally involved.

 

[dannyboy]

You are correct, being taken out of service can be done for many reasons, you can take yourself out of service by calling in sick.

And no, this is not usual for a center manager to act like a child, and in a temper tantrum do what this guy suposedly did. But sometimes you just have to look a gift horse in the mouth and smile.

Not trying to say anything about the initial reports to the BC, but ever remember playing that little game where something was whispered from one person to another, and how even after 3-4 people repeating the phrase, it had changed? Maybe not a lot early on, but enough to cause problems with a story like this?

My suggestion is wait for monday. Waiting can be very hard, but what choice do you have. If and when the fireing sticks, then they need to look at options.

d

 

[tieguy]

So when the center manager first walks up to the scene, and the first words out of his mouth are "you're fired", the investigation is over and no further evidence is admissable? What are we talking 10 seconds? How can the center manager be investigator, judge, and jury in 10 seconds when no evidence was even looked at, and then, no other evidence is admissable? Are center managers taught this in sbts; to fire first so no evidence can be used past that point?

Good questions. no not taught that way in any ups school. center manager acted like a cowboy in this case. I can't comment on the guy because I don't know him. He may be a cowboy he may be a guy who vented because he had a lot of these "little" accidents lately. Tier 3 accidents are big deals at ups. We have to go through a lot of extra curricular activities to explain these "little" accidents.

 

[over9five]

Could it be?

Or maybe the manager isn't as dumb as some of you think.

If the driver is really a good guy as the OP said, could it be that the manager fired him on the spot to GIVE him a good chance at getting his job back???

Think about it. The manager looks good to his bosses. He fired the driver.
BUT....the driver's a good guy, the manager likes him. So the manager botches the accident investigation intentionally. Not hugely...just enough so that the driver has an out.

Just a thought.

 

[HazMatMan]

In our district, a person involved in a Tier 3 is automatically fired and the length of suspension is determined by the severity of the accident. We just had one in the center that I work, 29 year accident-free driver. Minor intersection accident (other driver ran stop sign). The driver ended up with a 1-day suspension. I know that others have been fired and it stuck, others had 3 day suspensions.

With the information you've given, I would guess that a 1-3 day suspension is appropriate.

TB

Other driver ran stop sign??? And the UPS driver got suspended??? How could that be??? Are we supposed to be able to predict the future and know when someone is going to blow a stop sign or some other stupid move to get us into an accident???

 

[tieguy]

Other driver ran stop sign??? And the UPS driver got suspended??? How could that be??? Are we supposed to be able to predict the future and know when someone is going to blow a stop sign or some other stupid move to get us into an accident???

Indeed. We are that talented. We have the ability to see someone traveling at a high rate of speed and predict that person will never be able to stop in time. We have the ability to see that the opposing traffic has not come to a complete stop and therefore anticipate that those drivers may run the intersection. In fact our people are so talented that they make these predictions all the time.

 

[upsrwife]

Or maybe the manager isn't as dumb as some of you think.

If the driver is really a good guy as the OP said, could it be that the manager fired him on the spot to GIVE him a good chance at getting his job back???

Think about it. The manager looks good to his bosses. He fired the driver.
BUT....the driver's a good guy, the manager likes him. So the manager botches the accident investigation intentionally. Not hugely...just enough so that the driver has an out.

Just a thought.

no way. the manager has had it out for my husband ever since my husband was hit head on 2 years ago (not work related) and had to take some time off for surgeries (fmla). the manager has told my husband on many occasions "your a liability" and is just not fair to him anymore. my husband is about 100% healthy now, and just needs the occasional follow up appointment. the mgr doesn't like him at all as I stated earlier. there is a group of about 6 drivers that this mgr has it in for for no good reason. the union rep told my husband that people call the 800 number on him everyweek and nobody can stand his tactics. this is a man who has been married 4 times and has had 3 heart attacks. not one driver who we have known has had anything nice to say about him in the 2 years he has been there. he is always in a bad mood, always.

my husband is in the process of writing out his grievances now. him and another driver family friend are working on it. I will post when he is done.

thanks again for all your replies

 

[dannyboy]

Not the grievance I hope?

 

[HazMatMan]

Indeed. We are that talented. We have the ability to see someone traveling at a high rate of speed and predict that person will never be able to stop in time. We have the ability to see that the opposing traffic has not come to a complete stop and therefore anticipate that those drivers may run the intersection. In fact our people are so talented that they make these predictions all the time.

Tie, I do detect a bit of sarcasm in that post. Could they predict the winner of the 1st race at Philly Park tomorrow as well?? lol.

 

[upsrwife]

Not the grievance I hope

no, that's not the grievance

 

[tieguy]

Tie, I do detect a bit of sarcasm in that post. Could they predict the winner of the 1st race at Philly Park tomorrow as well?? lol.

Not sarcasm. when you approach an intersection you make sure the other guy is stopping before you enter the intersection. Unless the guy does a stop and go you can tell whether he is stopping or not.